Rockwell 15-091 drill press restore.

[wiremonkey]

So I think I might have hosed myself. I purchased a Rockwell 15-091 drill press for $150. I though I did all the right research and was going to restore it. I just need a good working drill press. Not a show piece. Figured I would have to replace the bearing which doesn't seem overly complicated. I did miss one thing though is the rockwell motor is 3450 RPM instead of the 1725 RPM motor that it came with. Way too fast. I do a mixture of wood and steel. I'm not sure it's even worth it to move forward. Vintage presses in LA are getting harder to find. I didn't want to resort to getting a jet, shop fox or grizzly Chinese made one but that might have been a better idea.

My options moving forward are:
1. Sell it on CL again and buy Chinese.
2. Restore and replace the motor with a 1/2hp
3. Restore and replace the motor with a 3/4hp

I'll sell the old Rockwell motor.

Looking at motors there are Leeson, Baldor and Dayton. All are US made and not sure with current motor technology if there is a big difference. New motors looks like it runs around$200. Bearings $30ish and a new belt. Is all that worth it?

Here is a link to a folder with images.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BycIPFIuvpq4VW16SVBRQ2lGOVk

Thanks for any help on this.

 

[exmaxima1]

You may have paid a tad too much for the press with bad bearings and the wrong motor, but you can sell the motor for more than a used replacement motor. Your motor is the "upgrade" motor for the Rockwell 1x42 belt sander, and also found on smaller jointers so there should be a buyer. I would buy a used 1/2hp motor and be done with it--don't dwell on the brand. Unless you get a middle pulley, that drill press is best suited for woodworking and light metal work anyway.

 

[nine4gmc]

whut he said^.

and to add to that, you may try putting an ad on CL to try and swap that motor for a 1750, you never know what people have laying around.

 

[wiremonkey]

That's what I figured. I'm wondering if it's too much work. Is it hard to sort out a middle pulley? I've looked at different options for that and it seems like people are using grizzly parts to do it.

 

[gnpenning]

Find as treadmill and go variable speed.

 

[CNGsaves]

Wait for feedback from Frank Lee . . . he's GJ guru on drill presses.

 

[exmaxima1]

Find as treadmill and go variable speed.

Yep, 2 birds with 1 stone....

 

[bubinga]

If you have room find a used motor use this one for wood,
Get a 2nd one for metal.
That's what I do.
I don't like having to clean oil and metal off a drill press, to use for wood.

 

[bubinga]

You'll be alright with it.
Don't beat yourself up over it.
I had an Idea, Post over at the classifieds at OWWM and here for that matter,
under WTT (wanting to Trade, ) 3450 for 1725 motor. Each party would pay shipping.
Might find something there. That looks to still be a well made drill press model, probably still USA.

 

[Davefr]

A better plan is to look for a 3 phase 1750 RPM motor and add a VFD. Used 3 phase motors are often much cheaper then single phase 1750 RPM motors.

(A treadmill motor conversion can be a PIA since they don't have standard shafts or nema 56 mounts. In addition you need to make provisions for an enclosure for the control circuit.)

 

[ducksface]

A better plan is to look for a 3 phase 1750 RPM motor and add a VFD. Used 3 phase motors are often much cheaper then single phase 1750 RPM motors.

(A treadmill motor conversion can be a PIA since they don't have standard shafts or nema 56 mounts. In addition you need to make provisions for an enclosure for the control circuit.)

I'm lost.
What is the advantage of the three phase?
Why would he dump three phase and VFD money in a press he already worries about being financially buried in?

Someone tell me what I've missed.

 

[Roberts210]

I'd keep it, put a new bearing(s) in. That DP will last the rest of your life. Then sell that motor--it's a rare motor and SOMEBODY would love to have it. Are you in Los Angeles or Louisiana? If L.A., I can practically guarantee you someone there wants that motor. There is an old tool swap meet at Anderson Plywood, in Culver City the 3rd Sat. in May. Lots of stuff shows up there--I've seen motors there before, but haven't inspected any as I don't need a motor. PM me if you need more info about the swap meet.

 

[Davefr]

I'm lost.
What is the advantage of the three phase?
Why would he dump three phase and VFD money in a press he already worries about being financially buried in?

Someone tell me what I've missed.

You need a 3 phase motor in order to control speed with a VFD. The VFD creates it's own 3 phase output using a single phase input (ie common household) circuit. One you have 3 phase, the VFD can control motor speed via frequency. (and rotation direction and braking)

The OP would then have a DP that would be capable of a speed range of around 300 RPM all the way to 2000 RPM with the simple turn of a dial. (even higher if he overclocks the VFD).

If he ever needs more torque down low he can still do belt adjustments.

His cost would be around $200 for motor and VFD. (maybe even less). This is about the same as buying a new 1750 RPM single phase motor.

A drill press + VFD is a marriage made in heaven.

More info here:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=320064

 

[ducksface]

Thanks.
I always thought three phase and the converter were much more expensive than that and closer to the 600 dollar range.

 

[Davefr]

Thanks.
I always thought three phase and the converter were much more expensive than that and closer to the 600 dollar range.

The sweet spot for VFD's is about 1 HP or less. (ie typical DP power). For motors >>1 HP, VFD costs increase exponentially.

http://dealerselectric.com/L510-101-H1-N.asp

 

[Roberts210]

Also, prices on old American iron are only going to go up, while if you get an Asian DP it will gradually be worth less and less and less.

So if you feel like you are over-paying now, in a few years you will be patting yourself on the back for having made a good deal.

 

[exmaxima1]

The sweet spot for VFD's is about 1 HP or less. (ie typical DP power). For motors >>1 HP, VFD costs increase exponentially.

http://dealerselectric.com/L510-101-H1-N.asp

And recommend the 1hp motor for VFD application. When you decrease the speed by 1/2, so does the hp. By the time you get to very slow speeds, there's very little power left.

 

[bubinga]

A better plan is to look for a 3 phase 1750 RPM motor and add a VFD. Used 3 phase motors are often much cheaper then single phase 1750 RPM motors.

(A treadmill motor conversion can be a PIA since they don't have standard shafts or nema 56 mounts. In addition you need to make provisions for an enclosure for the control circuit.)

for the most part.
But some TM motors do have a 56 frame. Might not say so on it,
But mounts right up just like it. Key-way and 5/8" shaft too.

 

[Davefr]

And recommend the 1hp motor for VFD application. When you decrease the speed by 1/2, so does the hp. By the time you get to very slow speeds, there's very little power left.

^^^I agree!! That's absolutely true.

However you always have the option of multiplying torque by changing the belt/pulley steps to a speed lower range. You just won't have to do it very often.

I use a 1.5 HP motor and at the highest speed pulley arrangement I can get down as low as 250 RPM and not stall out the motor by grabbing the chuck. However torque falls off very quickly <250 RPM at the high speed pulley/belt ratio.

The VFD eliminates most, but not all, belt/pulley changes.

 

[bubinga]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes, They are a nice set up.
I have a reeves drive and a VFD on my wood lathe.

 

[ducksface]

Also, prices on old American iron are only going to go up, while if you get an Asian DP it will gradually be worth less and less and less.

So if you feel like you are over-paying now, in a few years you will be patting yourself on the back for having made a good deal.

Or they are pogs and new technology and tastes will replace your Compaq.

 

[wiremonkey]

Wow. Thanks for all the input. Basically I'm trying to go this route as I have fiddled with cheap drill presses too long. I don't mind the work to get it sorted. That's kind of the fun as I'm sure many of you know. I'm about 1/2 and 1/2 between wood and metal. I'm usually below 1/8" stock on the metal so not doing anything too heavy. I'm going to try and find a used motor.

@Roberts210 I am in Los Angeles. Getting harder to find used stuff around. Was at Apex today in Sun Valley but it looks like they are planning on going out of business soon. I'll have to check out the Culver City swap meet.

Is a sleeve bearing motor the wrong way to go? Should it be a ball bearing one? I attached a pic of one I found for $50.

Thanks again.

 

[exmaxima1]

Is a sleeve bearing motor the wrong way to go? Should it be a ball bearing one? I attached a pic of one I found for $50.

Thanks again.

The only issue with that motor is that it might not be suitable for vertical orientation. Sleeve bearings and rubber mounts tend to be designed for horizontal applications. Others may know more....

 

[wiremonkey]

Is TEFC a bad way to go? Found this locally for $100

 

[bubinga]

Is TEFC a bad way to go? Found this locally for $100

No, Not at all, That's what you want.
Is it new?

 

[wiremonkey]

Cool. It looks new so it seems like a good deal.

 

[bubinga]

How close are you to Fountain Valley?
https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/6068401477.html
Harbor freight though????
1 HP.
https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/6068401477.html

 

[bubinga]

That Dayton is Probably more reliable than The HF though
You can put a switch in there too, for the two speeds.

 

[wiremonkey]

Not super close but isn't a terrible drive. I'm going to try and go with the Dayton and see what happens.

 

[Davefr]

That Dayton is Probably more reliable than The HF though
You can put a switch in there too, for the two speeds.

Agree. Dayton's are good quality motors. Just make sure the shaft O.D. matches your pulley I.D.

 

[bubinga]

Agree. Dayton's are good quality motors. Just make sure the shaft O.D. matches your pulley I.D.

Yeah, I think I'd trust it more than the HF.
Make sure it's reversible, most are I think.......... EDIT, The Dayton above IS reversible
If not make sure it rotates the correct way.

 

[Cruzan80]

If you still need a motor, I would be interested in swapping your 3450 for a 1725. Just let me know where you are at. Have a Rockwell 1/2HP 3ph (original), some older GE's, a Dayton, and others. Would be mounting it on a 6" Uniplane that originally was 3ph.

 

[Roberts210]

Or they are pogs and new technology and tastes will replace your Compaq.

Huh???

 

[exmaxima1]

That Dayton is Probably more reliable than The HF though
You can put a switch in there too, for the two speeds.

"Two speeds"? Are the speeds---On and Off?

 

[Davefr]

"Two speeds"? Are the speeds---On and Off?

If you look closely at the Dayton TEFC motor's wiring diagram is has two windings/two speeds. If he wires it up to switch between these two windings, he could now have a 8 speed drill press with a low of around 300 RPM.

For that reason alone, it's a no brainer for the OP to pick this motor.

 

[bubinga]

"Two speeds"? Are the speeds---On and Off?

No, 1140, and 1725. there are 2 tabs in there, depending what tab you hook your hot wire to, lo and hi speed.
SPDT switch, power in to center, and 1140 and 1725 tabs to the outside contacts of the SPDT switch.

 

[exmaxima1]

If you look closely at the Dayton TEFC motor's wiring diagram is has two windings/two speeds. If he wires it up to switch between these two windings, he could now have a 8 speed drill press with a low of around 300 RPM.

For that reason alone, it's a no brainer for the OP to pick this motor.

I was looking at the HF motor....duh.

 

[wiremonkey]

Picked it up. Brand new motor. Feel better about the press now.
The two speed will be interesting but I did notice that the slower speed is rated at 1/4HP. That shouldn't change the torque though, right?

@ Cruzan80 Thank you for the offer I think I'm going to post the motor for sale though.

 

[wiremonkey]

So I pulled the whole thing apart and surprisingly it gave me no trouble at all. Chuck took some work but I realized why. Someone scored the spindle with something most likely because the chuck kept falling off. Is that something that is repairable? I could put it on my lathe to smooth it down but worried about messing with the angle.

 

[exmaxima1]

Picked it up. Brand new motor. Feel better about the press now.
The two speed will be interesting but I did notice that the slower speed is rated at 1/4HP. That shouldn't change the torque though, right?

Going by the math, if the speed drops by 1/3, while the hp drops by 1/2, then (yes) the torque is reduced. If the hp only dropped by 1/3 the torque would have been constant.