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Romex in EMT Conduit

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bannerd

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Hey all, working on a job where they put EMT in the concrete wall (16" thick).. Concrete filled all the gang boxes but I was able to chisel that out and the path was clear. Some how my helper was able to fish five romex inside of a 1" EMT pipe, since the rest is THHN. I can't for the life of me get this out and I don't know how to proceed. He did tape all the romex together and said he pushed it through just fine. There is a 90 degree in the wall and if I pull on one wire or all it won't even budge. :dunno:

Any thoughts? Unbelievable.
 
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OccupantRJ

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Slightly diluted Dawn pumped in for lubricant and a winch? If successful, water and compressed air or a vacuum to flush the conduit, then dry with a heat gun?
 
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bannerd

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I'll give that a try, I was laying in bed last night and wondered if a slide hammer on a single strain would just pull those out one by one. Might snap the wire though.
 
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OccupantRJ

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I think the tape will hurt you trying to pull a single run. I have run into that before where wraps of tape can hold pretty well, especially if several separate wraps along the run.
 
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Terry D

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So the romex was put in after the concrete was poured. Did he tape them the entire length.


We need Pictures
 
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MerlinsBeard

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Could be a dumb idea, but can you cap both ends of the conduit, punch a hole in one of the caps at the top end of the run, and "fill" the conduit with lube. Not completely, but provide a way where lube can travel the entire length. If you can get enough lube to travel down the length of the conduit, maybe you can overcome the starting friction and remove the wire.
 
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Terry D

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Still not really following you here. You have a concrete wall where the electric is in the pour. Wasnt roughed in correctly and concrete filled the boxes. How much concrete? Did it just come in through the holes in the boxes or did the boxes pull away from the form. Did the concrete get into the conduits? Was the romex put in before or after the pour? Could there be concrete inside the pipe that hardened? If that is the case, if possible try to pour vinegar in the pipe, it will break down the cement in the concrete. PVC would have been a better choice. 5 romexs in a 1" conduit seems tight. Is there fittings in the conduit run, if so, what kind
 
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bannerd

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Terry D said:
Still not really following you here. You have a concrete wall where the electric is in the pour. Wasnt roughed in correctly and concrete filled the boxes. How much concrete? Did it just come in through the holes in the boxes or did the boxes pull away from the form. Did the concrete get into the conduits? Was the romex put in before or after the pour? Could there be concrete inside the pipe that hardened? If that is the case, if possible try to pour vinegar in the pipe, it will break down the cement in the concrete. PVC would have been a better choice. 5 romexs in a 1" conduit seems tight. Is there fittings in the conduit run, if so, what kind
Click to expand...

The concrete came in wet (slump of 7 and settled at 5) so it creeped into the gang boxes. We ran a bunch of single wire already but the helper messed up and some how was able to push the five romex into that 1". Since he was able to do that, there should be no concrete in the line. The gang box was never cleared either which is a pain. He was able to do it using dawn dish soap. His mistake was the drawing, the five lines go above where he was and it is NOT in EMT.

Water comes out the end so I might just need some serious lube here if I can get it to go. The contractor on site is thinking about a bladder and forcing soap through it. We'll see, I'll snag that foam too.
 
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bannerd

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MerlinsBeard said:
Could be a dumb idea, but can you cap both ends of the conduit, punch a hole in one of the caps at the top end of the run, and "fill" the conduit with lube. Not completely, but provide a way where lube can travel the entire length. If you can get enough lube to travel down the length of the conduit, maybe you can overcome the starting friction and remove the wire.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I think that is what we're going to try with this bladder thing. It allows water/soap to go into a line but not back out.
 
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kaffine

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Cut it off from the side he feed it in from leaving enough to attach a good pull string just in case you need to pull back. Then try to pull it all the way through vs pulling it back out from the side it was installed from. I might attach 2 pull strings attaching them to different pieces of romex.

If he tapped them together for the entire run then pull them all at once.

If it is a vertical run I would pour a lot of lube down the conduit if it is horizontal I would use compressed air to help the lube along.
 
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dcg9381

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wyliesdiesels

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Firebrick43 said:
Doesn't the helper know that Romex (in most cases but especially this one) in EMT is illegal?
Click to expand...

umm what? do you use the urban legend code book?

the NEC does not prohibit NM-b in raceway

the only place that NM-b cannot go is outside, whether its in raceway or surface mounted or underground.

BTW Romex is NOT a type of cable. it is a ® and ™ brand of Southwire
 
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Norcal

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Firebrick43 said:
Doesn't the helper know that Romex (in most cases but especially this one) in EMT is illegal?
Click to expand...

Another rule taken verbatim from the Urban Legend Electrical code?:D

Just like the no wirenuts/splices in panel gutters.
 
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brownbagg

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dont put romex in conduit, the covering will cause the wires to overheat and burn your house down
 
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rjn2649

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Try polywater cable loosener.

I researched it a long time ago for some communication wire that rusted in place in a long run of underground conduit. We didn't use it because it was a remodel and it we could easily run fresh conduit in the ceiling...
 
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Firebrick43

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wyliesdiesels said:
umm what? do you use the urban legend code book?

the NEC does not prohibit NM-b in raceway

the only place that NM-b cannot go is outside, whether its in raceway or surface mounted or underground.

BTW Romex is NOT a type of cable. it is a ® and ™ brand of Southwire
Click to expand...

You guys crack me up. I never said Romex was prohibited in EMT?
I stated

"Doesn't the helper know that Romex (in most cases but especially this one) in EMT is illegal?"

Tell me how its possibly to code to have 5 Romex cables in a 1" tube and remain with the fill tables?

Fill for 3 plus conductors is limited to 40 percent in Chapter 9 table two.
Fill for 2 conductors is 31 percent
Fill for 1 conductors is 53 percent

Multiconductor cables for fill calculations use the largest dimension (or width) to calculate the fill percentage.

For 12/2 Romex per southwires side this dimension is .422. That would allow 2 Romex circuits in a 1" emt, 1 Romex in a 3/4 emt, and 1 Romex in a 1/2" EMT

Unfortunately many people will try to stuff more NM cables in these conduits because its possible with THHN conductors. This is why Romex/NM-B/NM-C should be discouraged in conduits of any kind as it doesn't allow for expansion very well in the future and therefore cost the customer more in the long run.

As for the civil discourse of this forum, I understand asking one to explains one position or cite sources. I would be happy, as I did above, to cite sources. However you and others jumped to tear down others.

In your case it amazes me that you go out of your way to point out that Romex is a brand name. Yet that is the term that the OP used and no such comments to him. What position am I in to question the OP as to what brand he used.
 
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alfredeneuman

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Firebrick43 said:
You guys crack me up.
Click to expand...

"Wire nuts on motor connections have been illegal (for good reason) for quite some time."
"You got shocked because the box was not earthed correctly. Probably just grounded to the pipes and not with ground rods. "

Those statements alone makes me think that you're bugnuts-crazycakes
 
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Terry D

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St. Louis, MO.
alfredeneuman said:
"Wire nuts on motor connections have been illegal (for good reason) for quite some time."
"You got shocked because the box was not earthed correctly. Probably just grounded to the pipes and not with ground rods. "

Those statements alone makes me think that you're bugnuts-crazycakes
Click to expand...

I believe once I read somewhere that just left handed wire nuts are illegal. :bounce:
 
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