Roofing Question

[Rich M.]

I had a new roof and wood put on my house about seven years ago. Several weeks ago, we had a long driving rain storm that caused rain water to come into my house along the furnace chimney into the basement, completely skipping the first floor. In the basement, it was dripping about two inches away from the block chimney.

Since the roof is still under warranty I had the company come out and inspect the roof. He did not find any issue with roof but did mention the chimney had a number of grout corners that were not finished. He showed me photos of what he was talking about.

I had a chimney mason come out and check. He said the chimney looked in pretty good shape but did say the last person did not do a great job and several corners were not done very well. His suggestion is to touch up the joint spots, resurface the crown and water proof and see what happens. He did not want me to got through repointing the entire chimney when he was not even sure if the chimney is really the source of a leak.

Okay, now my question. After the chimney mason left he sent me several pictures that showed what he was talking about. As I looked at the pictures, I notice at the base of the chimney it appears the initial roof installers did not do a snug fit around the chimney with a shingle. The shingle extents away from the actual chimney and a dark material is exposed. Again, I am not a roofer but my guess it is part of the flashing. Does this ill fitting shingle have any possible relationship to my leak in this area? See attach photo.

Since it was a terrible driving rain storm did the rain find another entry method - say Ridge Cap? This happened once before about thirty years and three roofs ago.

 

[CTyankee]

I'm no roofing expert, but with the little your picture shows, I can see at least one mistake in your chimney flashing. As to the fitting of the shingle, no that's not your problem.

 

[CraigStu]

To me the section outlined in green looks good w/ the flashing laying on top of the shingles. The section in red is suspect. I'd like to see a pic taken from a bit further up the roof looking across the chimney to see how the higher side is flashed to the shingles. I sure don't like that notch cut out of that shingle that looks like it was cut 3 inches too wide.

 

[PCustoms]

Everything in that picture looks poorly done.

When you say dripping in the basement, was the floor just wet, or was there visible water coming from the ceiling/first floor? If the ceiling was wet, could you see where it originated?

How's your chimney capped?

 

[PCustoms]

To me the section outlined in green looks good w/ the flashing laying on top of the shingles.

I'm pretty sure flashing should not be on top of shingles like that....

 

[cgrutt]

I'm pretty sure flashing should no be on top of shingles....

Not along side anyway. Flashing along bottom edge of chimney (not shown in pic) may run over top of shingles. At first glance I thought the flashing along side was under shingles but you may be right.

Also looks like the flashing along top edge runs under the piece on side. That's wrong and could be source of leak. It also looks like there is a gap in sealant along the top piece of flashing where it wraps along side. That could be source of leak as well.

There is a gap in mortar at one of the corners in pic. Hard to say but certainly possible.

How far away from chimney is ridge vent? Doubt that's issue but you never know anything is possible.

Also when you say driving rain what do you mean? If it's coming in sideways (exaggerating) it could be blowing up under any of the shingles above chimney and traveling down over sheathing and under flashing until it hits gap in roof and coming down chimney.

Another source is along the edge of gable end. Is there a drip edge? Is it installed over or under the shingles? If under that may be a source.

It may not even be coming from roof at all. What's the siding look like down chimney? No way to tell from pic provided.

ETA I'd prefer the gap in shingle to be tighter to the chimney but that alone should not be issue if the flashing is done right. That flashing should extend pretty far under the shingles say 4-6" min. It would be better to have step flashing along side of chimney running up roof so any water would have path out under the shingles but looks like that is just a one piece flashing along side. If it's on top of shingles and only 1/2" to 1" (as it appears in pic) that may very well be problem. Esp if the "driving rain" is coming in that direction into side of chimney.

 

[CombatNinja]

Have someone reflash the whole thing. They may need to replace a few shingles but as long as they are careful, it won't impact the way the roof looks to a significant degree. The flashing is completely wrong. To be clear, you've had the 'roof guy' and a 'chimney guy' out to look at that and neither one noticed the flashing? Yikes.

 

[PCustoms]

^^^^exactly.

Have someone reflash the whole thing. They may need to replace a few shingles but as long as they are careful, it won't impact the way the roof looks to a significant degree. The flashing is completely wrong. To be clear, you've had the 'roof guy' and a 'chimney guy' out to look at that and neither one noticed the flashing? Yikes.

Bingo.

My bet is there is a ton of sealant under that flashing that finally failed

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

The side of the chimney should have step flashing.

 

[Rich M.]

Have someone reflash the whole thing. They may need to replace a few shingles but as long as they are careful, it won't impact the way the roof looks to a significant degree. The flashing is completely wrong. To be clear, you've had the 'roof guy' and a 'chimney guy' out to look at that and neither one noticed the flashing? Yikes.

No response from either one.

I only noticed later when the chimney guy emailed me the pictures.

As for the roofing company, the person inspected the area, which of course was my main concern, had to see this less than perfect workmanship, but he does work for the roofing and I cannot image they (company) want to make any repairs.

I am trying to get a better understanding because when I again talk to the company, I would like to be somewhat knowledgeable about the issue.

It would be nice to get up on the roof to get better pictures but I am on the near side of seventy and I promised my wife at 60 that my roof ventures were over.

I attached another picture but not sure it adds any help.

The response has been great (thanks), but I am still not sure what the material that is exposed under the ill-fitted shingle? Flashing/felt paper?

 

[cgrutt]

That last pic gives more perspective. I'm not sure what they're using to flash though almost looks like a waterproof membrane glued to the brick with flashing cement. The L piece on bottom may be aluminum and fall under the membrane. I'm not sure. It also looks like the top edge (head) of the chimney is pretty close to the ridge, is that correct?

I can't tell from pic if the actual flashing (if it's two parts one aluminum and the second the membrane) is running under or over the shingles. Same along sides running up the roofline. It helps to think about how water will run off when you think of flashing. You always want the water from above flowing over the top of the flashing below. They work from the bottom up so the upper piece whether flashing or shingle always (should anyway) overlaps the piece below it. This way water running down the roof always sheds off and never gets under to the sheathing. On a chimney such as yours they usually start with a base flashing at lower end of chimney. This will usually be put OVER the roof shingles. Next running up along the sides is usually step flashing. It doesn't look like your chimney has this, but it could be under the membrane. They start with a piece of step flashing then run a shingle over the top. The next piece of step flashing overlaps the piece below it by 2-3". The next course of shingles runs over this second piece. It continues this way all the way up the sides of the chimney, one piece overlapping the next. The final flashing is the head flashing at top. This usually runs UNDER the shingles above it. Caps may be put over the step flashing on both sides. The caps may be cut into a groove in brick and attached with flashing cement. This is the best way. I've seen caps just glued to the cement though.

There is also sometimes a "cricket" attached at the top. This is a triangular shaped piece that runs along back of chimney and directs any water to the sides of the chimney. This can be done with a separate piece of flashing or actually framed into the roof and shingled. It doesn't look like you have a cricket but I'm not sure if there is actually any room for one based on the pic.

If the flashing at the head is running OVER the shingles above it, water could be getting in under the flashing. I can't tell from pic though. Also if the ridge is right there close to the head of chimney, there could be an issue with the cap shingles, esp if you have a ridge vent.

I'm not sure if that is a membrane or how it is attached. There could be issues anywhere along the membrane, either from failing flashing cement, deterioration of the membrane itself (from sun/age) or if it's not installed properly to shed water away from the chimney and down roof. You really need to have somebody get up there and figure it out. Anyway, I realize this is long winded but I hope it helps. Good luck.

 

[Rst277]

Looks like the flashing is on top of the shingles and that is where the water will intrude. You can use some asphalt roof patch and cover the joint all the way around to waterproof it. It is very simple to use but also very sticky and gets on everything. Wear rubber gloves and use a spreader you don't mind throwing out afterwards. I usually leave the tool in the half full can of roof patch. I check my chimney every spring and probably put a new layer on every 3-5 years.

 

[WisJim]

Looks to me like they should have used step flashing on the sides and there should be (in best practices) counterflashing on all sides, instead of lots of caulk as apparently shown in the last picture. There are lots of books, articles, and YouTube videos about flashing, but I think that the Fine Homebuilding article seems to cover the important points. Flashing a chimney

 

[firebirdparts]

I'm pretty sure flashing should not be on top of shingles like that....

If it was counter flashed, now, that would be what a superior job looks like. But that's "IF".

Because of the (maybe) counter flashing, and in the general case, we can't see the step flashing. We don't know if they step flashed or not because we simply can't see that.

Just getting on the internet and saying "Oh that all ***** everybody is a hack" is just not clear here.

P.S. I agree that the answer is reflash the whole thing. Small job, you'll know what's in there if you look. Build a cricket for extra credit.