Hey guys, I have a 40x50 barn that needs a new roof, I don't care what the shingles look like, it is back on my property and the roof is not visible to anyone else, or from my house. Does anyone have any experience with "seconds" shingles? I have read some say that the color is just slightly off, other have said the quality is lacking. I don't care about color, just want a decent shingle, the last ones lasted 40 years!
Roofing shingles "seconds," anyone have any experience with them?
- Thread starter Poe34
- Start date
Yes, I've done a few homes/shops with them. The cost savings is substantial. My understanding is the shingles are weighed for quality control and are considered a "second" if they don't meet weight. In my experience, the bundles are hit with a propane torch to melt a portion of the packaging to the shingle.
I've never regretted using them.
I've never regretted using them.
Weight is an important indicator of quality, though, so light shingles are missing rocks, and minght not last as long. Might well make sense ofr some applications still, but something to keep in mind.
When I regularly took the train into Chicago a couple decades ago, there was a house I looked at every trip. It had clearly been shingled by somoene who'd collected the left over material from jobs, because it was done in about 20 different colors of shingle.
nmk_61802
Well-known member
My opinion, but I would be hard pressed to skimp money on materials here (but your asking for opinions).
- Are you doing the labor yourself? or paying someone?
- Can you afford to do it again if these fail prematurely?
- Do the seconds have the manufacturer's warranty? (my guess is no)
- What is the actual savings?
I personally don't like roofing (let alone reroofing), so unless I plan on moving soon would never choose seconds for a roof.
- Are you doing the labor yourself? or paying someone?
- Can you afford to do it again if these fail prematurely?
- Do the seconds have the manufacturer's warranty? (my guess is no)
- What is the actual savings?
I personally don't like roofing (let alone reroofing), so unless I plan on moving soon would never choose seconds for a roof.
Rst277
Well-known member
I'd gladly never do shingles again - strap it and put on a metal roof. That being said, nothing wrong with seconds, it's a barn.
Call mfr and ask what makes them seconds. If it is just a color change of ballast (granules) that's probably pretty safe. If it is beyond cosmetic, then you really need answers.
See if the "seconds" still meet all of the agency approvals. If the packages redact this type of marking, then I would assume it is more than aesthetics. What life can you get out of them? (Real question is, "Are you just buying their garbage?")
Seal strips, release film and lamination integrity Is important. Are these 3 tab shingles or architectural?
Another consideration you always have control over is the shingle exposure. You can reduce the exposure for better wind resistance....5.5" down to 4.5" as an example.
Also 6 point nailing is far better than 4 point. Nails only, no staples.
As said above, how much are you saving?
Is one side of the barn worse than the other? Could you split the job in 2?
See if the "seconds" still meet all of the agency approvals. If the packages redact this type of marking, then I would assume it is more than aesthetics. What life can you get out of them? (Real question is, "Are you just buying their garbage?")
Seal strips, release film and lamination integrity Is important. Are these 3 tab shingles or architectural?
Another consideration you always have control over is the shingle exposure. You can reduce the exposure for better wind resistance....5.5" down to 4.5" as an example.
Also 6 point nailing is far better than 4 point. Nails only, no staples.
As said above, how much are you saving?
Is one side of the barn worse than the other? Could you split the job in 2?
Stuart in MN
Well-known member
I agree with mm08822 - if the only issue is their color is off that's one thing, if there's any other reason to call them seconds I'd pass. Doesn't matter if it's just a barn, you don't want the roof to wear out or leak prematurely. I'd look for sales on architectural grade shingles, they're thicker and more durable than the regular old 3 tab style. You may be even to pick up a few bundles here and there from Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist, being sold by people who had a little extra left over when they reshingled their roofs.
I know it's generally allowed to put a second layer of shingles over what's already on the roof but I don't recommend it. It's always best to strip the roof right down to the sheathing and start over fresh, to make sure you don't miss any hidden damage or rot.
I know it's generally allowed to put a second layer of shingles over what's already on the roof but I don't recommend it. It's always best to strip the roof right down to the sheathing and start over fresh, to make sure you don't miss any hidden damage or rot.
Thank you for the response, I am asking for "experience" not "opinions" on the material.
You know what they say about opinions.They get plain shrink wrapped when they don't pass inspection, there is no calling the ask the manufacturer.
That was my initial plan, but there is some wood that needs to be replaced.
Ok. Then buy a few bundles from the same lot (at risk) open them up and inspect. Use your judgement based on what you see.
How much does "seconds" save per bundle?
(No experience with seconds....I'm out.)
Prospecter
Well-known member
I used IKO first quality 25 yr jets on my house and seconds on my barn. The seconds started to break down at 12ish years. So much of the job is labor, and disposal costs are so high that at this point, I use the very best architectural grade shingles I can get. Cheaper over the life of the roof.
I haven't used screw down metal roofing. I read so much about needing to redo the screws.
I haven't used screw down metal roofing. I read so much about needing to redo the screws.
tncatadjuster
Well-known member
I've used them on a few of my houses, once they get past about 10-12 years they show considerable loss of granules. I will not use them again.
That wasn't "experience" but some great advice if they weren't sold by the square. they are $70 a square, more than half off. It's possible some packages are ripped open and I can inspect. After reading other comments on experience with them, looks like I should pass. Thank you for some great advice!
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BurtEggley
Well-known member
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My experience with "seconds" in any product is that they can be seconds due to many reasons, all beyond the control of the buyer. In roofing then it could be anything that leads to a problem - chemistry, weight, color, depth of penetration of rock, size, too many blemishes in the run etc.. Products can be surplus due a private label order that was renegged on. As an example, we used to see lots of automotive engine parts that were sold by auto dealers that resulted from seconds on the assembly line. Maybe a bolt hole was bad, maybe a bearing too tight, maybe the runout too much, maybe the weight was out of spec on a piston or rod. Maybe someone missed grinding off flashing. Or maybe the part was good and they were in a hurry to end their shift so they tossed it in the not as good bin. Maybe it was sitting on a workbench at shift change and no one knew its history. Any time a manufacturer doesn't want to guarantee the product meets their specs, it becomes a second. That alone does not make it good or bad. It is the real reason something become a second that matters. The buyer won't know that unless the manufacturer tells them.
There is one other thing to consider too. Some manufacturers warranty their product in the sense that they will repair or replace it. The question often becomes who does that service, the manufacturer or the reseller? Some resellers want to make a sale, and never hear about it again - they say call the manufacturer and talk with them. Other resellers will take a discount on the wholesale price and handle any claims themselves. If for example the manufactuer sees an average of 15% in claims, they might offer the reseller a 15% discount if they handle the claims themselves. That relationship is not disclosed to the buyer. And, it is why some companies will help you with the claim, and others will tell you to call the manufacturer on a claim. Selling a product as a second could be a way of getting rid of products that just have a higher warranty claim ratio than normal. The idea is the buyer is willing to trade that discount for accepting the liability themselves for any defects. Thus, there can be no single answer from others whether seconds are a good deal or not. To some it might work out great, to others it might be a disaster. The risk is on the buyer. If someone wants a guarantee a product is good, don't buy a second. If they are willing to take the risk, go for it.
There is one other thing to consider too. Some manufacturers warranty their product in the sense that they will repair or replace it. The question often becomes who does that service, the manufacturer or the reseller? Some resellers want to make a sale, and never hear about it again - they say call the manufacturer and talk with them. Other resellers will take a discount on the wholesale price and handle any claims themselves. If for example the manufactuer sees an average of 15% in claims, they might offer the reseller a 15% discount if they handle the claims themselves. That relationship is not disclosed to the buyer. And, it is why some companies will help you with the claim, and others will tell you to call the manufacturer on a claim. Selling a product as a second could be a way of getting rid of products that just have a higher warranty claim ratio than normal. The idea is the buyer is willing to trade that discount for accepting the liability themselves for any defects. Thus, there can be no single answer from others whether seconds are a good deal or not. To some it might work out great, to others it might be a disaster. The risk is on the buyer. If someone wants a guarantee a product is good, don't buy a second. If they are willing to take the risk, go for it.
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nmk_61802
Well-known member
Sorry you did not like my opinion.... but seems like my opinion also matches others experience with seconds (and what I would have expected from a manufacturer's rejected product (which is pretty typical regardless of the product made).Thank you for the response, I am asking for "experience" not "opinions" on the material.
Also many of the questions I asked were also asked by others to help get a better answer to you.