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Room within a Room

jesmith

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
1
Location
Sun City, Arizona
Just wondering about the legal process of building a craft room inside my steel detached building next to my house in a residential area. Do I need permits to do this work? Is it expensive to acquire the permits? What kind of permits do I need? My shop is 30x30 and I want to make a craft room about 15x19. I just need some direction and don't want to get into trouble.
 
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CarlLucas

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Sep 6, 2015
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3
Since when modifying own home became illegal unless you are polluting the environment.

Sent from my D2302 using Tapatalk
 

theoldwizard1

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Feb 22, 2011
Messages
43,137
Location
SE MI
I'm sure you will need a couple of permits. Got to pay the folks in building department at the City ! Likely on for the framing, one for electrical and one for HVAC.
 

Falcon67

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Jun 11, 2009
Messages
18,371
Location
Merkel, TX
That may be a judgement call - if the original structure is permitted and signed off, internal modifications are not that big a deal. A craft room sounds like a couple of non-load bearing walls, some plugs and some lights. Maybe a window AC unit. Nothing special. However, most larger city codes would require a permit for things like remolding the kitchen, etc. Depends - I did the whole back half of our ex-house and didn't have to pull permit one. Look online at your city web site - general requirements should be posted. In the bigger city here, you would need permits and for electrical you'd need to take a test before they'd issue you a permit.
 

brewster55

Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2015
Messages
10
where i live, theres not much you can do legally without a permit.

you need to check with your city hall, not an internet forum.
 

Heavy Metal Doctor

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May 26, 2010
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5,417
Location
Mason Dixon Line
You just need to go lookup your local codes / building permit laws -- some places have zero to say about what you do in any non-residence outbuilding. Other places say you can't change out any existing fixture without a permit, let alone building new stuff....part of why we are looking to move is because our area has become such a nanny-state that I can't legally fix a leaking water faucet without a permit....the place we want to go has only rules regarding well / septic service - beyond that, it's build whatever you want - sounds perfect to us!
 
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NUTTSGT

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Sep 14, 2009
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50,906
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Northern Central Ohio
where i live, theres not much you can do legally without a permit.

you need to check with your city hall, not an internet forum.

This is why it is asked many times to put a general location in your profile. What may work or be legal in one part of the country may not be ok to do in another.

Some members may be able to provide accurate information to his location while others can help lead him in the proper direction to find the information he is looking for.
 

c4cruiser

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Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
359
Location
Lacey WA
You may also want to talk with your insurance agent regarding adding/modifying a room. If it turns out that permits will be required and you decide to not get them, the insurance company may not want to cover any losses that result from incidents (fire, structural failure, theft, etc.) if you don't have the permits.

Definitely a good idea to call the city or county to see what the requirements are. You shouldn't have to give your name or address, just ask about legal requirements.
 
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Cyberbear

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Nov 23, 2013
Messages
1,524
Location
California
When you ask for permission, you are giving them the power to say no, unless, of course,
you pay a bribe (fee) to use your own private property that will never impact the public.
We've all been conditioned over time to be afraid of government and ask permission for all we do, and often with good reason. Just do what your gut tells you and go from there.
Administrative agencies are all about the money and control.
 

Falcon67

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Jun 11, 2009
Messages
18,371
Location
Merkel, TX
When you ask for permission, you are giving them the power to say no, unless, of course,
you pay a bribe (fee) to use your own private property that will never impact the public.
We've all been conditioned over time to be afraid of government and ask permission for all we do, and often with good reason. Just do what your gut tells you and go from there.
Administrative agencies are all about the money and control.

Right. Refer to the attached example of some fine unpermitted electrical work in a public building (resale shop) downtown here that opened recently. There are a lot of unpermitted structures in this city and nearly all are fine examples of why control is needed to prevent injury or death.
 

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pmiranda

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Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
1,504
Location
Austin, TX
Obviously check with your locality to see what's required legally, but common sense and safety says that you need to follow IBC. If nobody is sleeping in there the requirements aren't too high.
 

Zeke

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Aug 13, 2009
Messages
17,176
Location
Long Beach CA, the sewer by the sea.
Partition walls that are non load bearing can be built but w/o a permit but there are so many considerations that a permit requirement will eventually come up.

For instance, if the walls are more than 3/4 of the height of the clear open space, lighting comes into play. Lighting being electrical = permit. With a ceiling you have your load calcs = permit. If there's a ceiling, you have load calcs for whether you will store above or not. Permit.

The list goes on. Since some time in the 90's the whole country has been adhering to the ICC

They keep just about everything under one roof, so to speak. At the bottom you will find the IRC
You will find most of the wall construction codes in Ch 6.

Ch 3 is a good read for all things in general and has references to the sub sections of what is being discussed. There you will find ventilation requirements, etc.
 

cnttxmdc

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Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Messages
385
Location
Granbury, TX
This is why I live outside the city limits, and avoid areas with HOAs. I shouldn't have to ask permission to put in an extra plug that makes vacuuming the hallway easier, or to put a specific species of tree in my yard. I understand the reasoning behind permits and such, but d@mn some places are just ridiculous....

All of my work is done with higher standards than people who do the job to "code". I shouldn't have to pay for permission to modify my house, or pay someone with less of an education &/or experience than I to come make sure I didn't put my plug in 1/2" too low.

Regardless what city you're in, I personally wouldn't have even thought about pulling a permit for what you're talking about doing. I'm not recommending you do the same, just sharing my thoughts. Either way, best of luck to you.
 

Zeke

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Aug 13, 2009
Messages
17,176
Location
Long Beach CA, the sewer by the sea.
This is why I live outside the city limits, and avoid areas with HOAs. I shouldn't have to ask permission to put in an extra plug that makes vacuuming the hallway easier, or to put a specific species of tree in my yard. I understand the reasoning behind permits and such, but d@mn some places are just ridiculous....

All of my work is done with higher standards than people who do the job to "code". I shouldn't have to pay for permission to modify my house, or pay someone with less of an education &/or experience than I to come make sure I didn't put my plug in 1/2" too low.

Regardless what city you're in, I personally wouldn't have even thought about pulling a permit for what you're talking about doing. I'm not recommending you do the same, just sharing my thoughts. Either way, best of luck to you.
Then again, if you've seen some of the kludge work on the interwebs, you know that some kind of control is needed.

One thing AHJ's like to see is that a garage of shop space is not being made into living quarters. So, improvements of many natures fall into permit territory.

As mentioned, the OP will most likely do some electrical work. Unless he really knows what he is doing, inspections are beneficial.

The lady next door to me wants to replace a tired wood fence with block. She's cheap when it comes to hiring anyone, I've seen the ones she hires. Here, we have to have very substantial footings for block. A 6'6" wall needs a lot of steel and a 12" x 36" deep footing. Or it can be shallower and 24" wide. Any way you cut it, it's a LOT OF dirt to excavate and several yards of concrete to do 40'. The AHJ doesn't allow vertical steel to be shoved in after the block is laid. It has to be tied and the masons have to lift each block up and over the vertical rebar.

She won't want to pay for a permitted job and I won't want to have a substandard fence as a liability.

Maybe not quite on topic, but permits often times eliminate bogus short cuts.
 

wssix99

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Mar 2, 2011
Messages
5,159
Location
Chicago, IL
This is why it is asked many times to put a general location in your profile. What may work or be legal in one part of the country may not be ok to do in another.

... Unless this is another "How do I set up a meth lab and not get noticed thread."
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