Rotate tires without balance?

[bw77]

I have always believed that tires should be rotated and balanced every 5K miles or so.

But I find that when I go to Sears auto for that service (which is included in the price of the set of tires I bought there), sometimes someone tries to convince me that I just need the tires rotated without a balance, unless I can feel the out of balance when driving.

I have to stand my ground and insist on the balance.

Other times, it's no questions asked. Depends on who I speak with.

I suppose they are just trying to increase profits a little by saving time on the balance.

Thoughts?

 

[J Persons]

Most times, tires are balanced off the vehicle so it doesn't make much difference as to where the tire is located. I've also had tires balanced on the vehicle and had poor results, especially at the rear axle. As tires wear, they can change the balance slightly and may have to be rebalanced.

 

[May Pop]

Rotate no rebalance. Unless you pay for rebalance. Unless you are extra perticular just a waste of money.

 

[MrSnicks]

I always get my wheels rebalanced when I have them rotated.

Patrick

 

[scottytohottyman]

Balancing is not necasary when rotating tires. However if a tire in the rear is out of balance you will not always feel it, that is untill it is rotated to the front. Then you have to go back to the shop & have them balanced. So it can be a time saver for both you & the shop to just balance the tires while the wheels are already off the vehicle. I own a tire store and once in a while we will have a car come back that has developed a vibration after the rotate. Then we end up balancing the tires and taking twice as much time for us & the customer. Long story short, you are not out of line by requesting balance and rotation.

 

[Fedwrench]

I'm sure the working techs appreciate you wanting to balance the tires with each rotation. Unless you're experiencing some shimmy or vibration, or lost a weight there's no need to but, that's just me.

 

[LocoCoco]

Huh?

You get your wheels balanced every 5000 km? What's the point? Once they're balanced, they're balanced.

Tire shop must love ya though!





LC.

 

[DrunkSmurf]

I always just rotate mine at home and never bother having them balanced unless there's an obvious need to.

If it isn't broke, don't try fixing it.

I do agree with scottytohottyman on the point that sometimes a tire that seemed fine on the rear can give you some issues once put on the front.
It's only happened to me once that I can think of though.

 

[neonnblack]

I have mine balanced every 3k or so, Im a very aggressive driver. My balances and rotations are free, whenever i want them from Discount Tire.

 

[nutjob]

Purchased the set of tires on the Durango from Costco. Free rotate and balance for life of the tire.

I stop in about every 10k. I see new weights and they are in different postions.

I would not pay for this service, since I can do the rotate myself and only get a balance if I felt a vibration.

By the way, Costco has done the best tire service I have ever seen. They wire brush the hub to remove rust, they use a torque wrench on the lug nuts and they really seem to care.

Kevin

 

[GirlnAgarage]

Discount Tire Co customer here too.

I have my tires rotated and balanced every 5k. By the end of the tire life I should have all the shimmies and vibes worked out.

 

[Lotek]

If the O/P was paying for the balance each time, I would have it checked at 15k, but since the balance and rotate was included in the price of the tires, I'm with the O/P, insist on the service that was promised when the tires were purchased

To those who think balancing is a one time thing, tires do wear unevenly, weights fall off or get knocked out of position, tread separation happens, if the tire is on the balancing machine, damage and defects are easier to see, so if the shop recommends a balance, don't assume they are trying to rip you off.

 

[tw33k2514]

Kinda pointless, but if it's free, why the hell not.

 

[J Persons]

Discount Tire

Won't ever buy from them again. Several years ago I special ordered a set of Dunlop D40M2 tires and paid for them in advance, was told they would be in within two weeks. Took the car down to have them installed, and they had switched tires the to their own brand, which were considerably cheaper than the Dunlops. When I complained and told them to reinstall my original tires they charged me a mounting fee. I did eventually get the tires I ordered and paid for, but not before loudly complaining. A letter to their corporate office was answered with "Sorry 'bout that". I use "The Tire Rack" now for all my tires.

 

[GirlnAgarage]

Re: Discount Tire

Won't ever buy from them again. Several years ago I special ordered a set of Dunlop D40M2 tires and paid for them in advance, was told they would be in within two weeks. Took the car down to have them installed, and they had switched tires the to their own brand, which were considerably cheaper than the Dunlops. When I complained and told them to reinstall my original tires they charged me a mounting fee. I did eventually get the tires I ordered and paid for, but not before loudly complaining. A letter to their corporate office was answered with "Sorry 'bout that". I use "The Tire Rack" now for all my tires.

Sounds like a poorly run shop. Having used Discount since the late 90s and all over the state at that, I've definitely found a difference in stores. While they all adhere to the same rules, some shops have a better vibe.

I have two shops within 3-4mls of me. I've intentionally used both to try to do the same things with my wheels and tires. The shop I originally went to after moving into the area doesn't get my business anymore.

It's a shame they treated you wrong.

 

[porphyre]

I have always believed that tires should be rotated and balanced every 5K miles or so.

But I find that when I go to Sears auto for that service (which is included in the price of the set of tires I bought there), sometimes someone tries to convince me that I just need the tires rotated without a balance, unless I can feel the out of balance when driving.

I have to stand my ground and insist on the balance.

Other times, it's no questions asked. Depends on who I speak with.

I suppose they are just trying to increase profits a little by saving time on the balance.

Thoughts?

My thought is you're in the 50+ bracket and had a lot of formative experience in the 60's and 70's.

I just had this conversation with my father. We were talking about how tires used to only last 30-40k miles and blow-outs were common. I was mentioning that my lifetime drive clock was around 500k miles at that point and I'd never had a blow-out.

Anyway, he said they used to always balance tires on the car and they'd balance after a rotate too. It seems that, back in the day, manufacturing tolerances weren't very tight. If you balanced the tire on the car, you were (in effect) balancing the entire rotating assembly - brakes, hubs, etc. It gave a smoother ride because, while a tire balanced off the car could be fine, the rotor or hub, etc, could be off.

On modern cars, tolerances are good enough that on-car balancing is not needed.

So, point being. Balance after every rotate? No need. Balance after 15-20k miles and/or you're feeling a vibe (uneven tire wear, lost wheel weight, etc)? Yes.

But yeah, if it's one of those "free lifetime rotate, balances".... no reason not to do it.

 

[bw77]

My thought is you're in the 50+ bracket and had a lot of formative experience in the 60's and 70's.

Yup, for the past 10 years.

Thanks to everyone for your ideas.

 

[Rickstir]

Rotate and balance every other oil change on my new Subaru. Course I go off road a lot. Back when I had money to burn I had a Ram 1500 Quad 4 X 4. Lots more off roading on it. Got those tires rotated and balanced every 5 to 7 thousand. Always got excellent tire life.

 

[metal1313]

i have mine balanced pretty often, more often than most, but thats only becuase my mech. lets me change my fluids and rotate my tires in his shop while i help him work on his, or his helpers projects. i gotta find him a tire mounting machine tho, since his is an oldd coats machine and wont mount tires to 17's or larger wheels

 

[NUTTSGT]

I rotate mine every other oil change, 8K miles. I have never had a tire rebalanced after it was put on, I guess I never thought of it.

 

[petee_c]

rotate when i switch from summer to winter tires on our DD vehicles. Only balance if I feel a vibration. I haven't had to have a tire rebalanced after initial installation.

P

 

[DrunkSmurf]

I just realized that you make it sound like the rotation/balance was part of the original tire purchase.

If that's the case, and they do good work, I would insist on a balance as well when getting your rotation.
The reason I mention "good work" is that I've had tires balanced in the past that left the shop with more problems than they rolled in with...lol

 

[reznunt]

Balancing is not necasary when rotating tires. However if a tire in the rear is out of balance you will not always feel it, that is untill it is rotated to the front. Then you have to go back to the shop & have them balanced. So it can be a time saver for both you & the shop to just balance the tires while the wheels are already off the vehicle. I own a tire store and once in a while we will have a car come back that has developed a vibration after the rotate. Then we end up balancing the tires and taking twice as much time for us & the customer. Long story short, you are not out of line by requesting balance and rotation.

i owned a tire shop as well. if the shop he went to to buy the tires (sears) only offers free lifetime rotation with his tire purchase (and not balancing), then he cannot demand balancing when he goes in for the rotation. IF he feels a vibration then he can request the shop re-balance the tires and they should oblige him. from what he describes, it sounds like he's asking for more than what he paid for.

to the OP, if you do not feel any vibration while driving, there is NO NEED to re-balance your tires at the time of your tire rotation. you would be wasting both your time and theirs.

 

[reznunt]

also, i don't understand why any tire shop would include free re-balance with a lifetime tire rotation. everyone knows it's a waste of time unless there is a problem. if sears does that, then they must charge a **** load for their tires.

 

[bitshftr]

It comes down to this: rebalance when they are out of balance. There's no need to otherwise. You'll feel an out-of-balance wheel.

On my small cars, I've never had to have a wheel rebalanced after the first balance when mounting new tires. On my trucks (bigger tires), I've occasionally had to have the tires rebalanced. Then again, those tires last a lot longer than sports-car tires.

 

[bw77]

also, i don't understand why any tire shop would include free re-balance with a lifetime tire rotation. everyone knows it's a waste of time unless there is a problem. if sears does that, then they must charge a **** load for their tires.

Sears includes free lifetime rotation and balance, every 5000 miles, in the price of their tires.

 

[justanengineer]

I do all of my own rotations, but do take my vehicles in for a balance every 15k or so. I have found that many shops want you to pay a premium for this, but I have good luck in holding them to ~$10 total, rather than the $40 most want for this small task (15 minutes work?)

 

[6768rogues]

I change my oil every 3000 miles and rotate the tires at every other oil change. I only balance them when I think one of them is out of balance.

 

[srmofo]

To the OP, If you cant feel a vibration at highway speeds, whats the point in balancing them? what are you trying to fix?

Sears includes free lifetime rotation and balance, every 5000 miles, in the price of their tires.

Last time I was there (over seven years ago) they charged $8 mounting, $7 balancing, $2.50 valve stem
That didnt include the additional cost of road hazard protection.

I do all of my own rotations, but do take my vehicles in for a balance every 15k or so. I have found that many shops want you to pay a premium for this, but I have good luck in holding them to ~$10 total, rather than the $40 most want for this small task (15 minutes work?)

on a $5000 machine, while the vehicle is lifted in to the air on a $5000 lift and the tech uses a $400 impact to zip them off quickly, all while working comfortably and safely out of the weather in a $200,000+ building. And oh yeah, none of those costs include the expensive maintenance on those items. Overhead is a ***** when running a business and if you dont account for and charge accordingly you wont be in business for long. Lots of other hidden costs go into the price of services other than just the time it takes to perform the service.

 

[REAL HOT SCHITT]

Hi, always balance when changing over tires that new or just outtr storage sumtimes they could be out.
If u frequent a garage or tire shop they will do for nuffing like the 1 i go to.

 

[some zilch]

boy, ive never had a tire vibration issue on anything ive ever owned. it always amazes me the number of people who claim to have such tire woes they need to be balanced every 3k. i mean, really? what a waste of time, money, and resources. if i had to balance my tires every 3k, id be doing it about every 2 months.

i used to get 80k miles out of my drive tires and 100k out of my trailer tires when i drove a truck. they saw 200k pounds on a daily basis, and were never balanced or rotated. balance/rotate is going the way of 3kmi oil changes. this isnt 1950 anymore.

 

[bw77]

To the OP, If you cant feel a vibration at highway speeds, whats the point in balancing them? what are you trying to fix?

Last time I was there (over seven years ago) they charged $8 mounting, $7 balancing, $2.50 valve stem
That didnt include the additional cost of road hazard protection.

When I bought my tires at Sears 3 years ago, they charged $15 per tire for mount/balance/valve stem. But they include free lifetime rotation/balance in that price.

I have always thought that tire balance was normal maintenance along with rotation, but based on most of the responses to this thread, that is no longer true.

 

[justanengineer]

on a $5000 machine, while the vehicle is lifted in to the air on a $5000 lift and the tech uses a $400 impact to zip them off quickly, all while working comfortably and safely out of the weather in a $200,000+ building. And oh yeah, none of those costs include the expensive maintenance on those items. Overhead is a ***** when running a business and if you dont account for and charge accordingly you wont be in business for long. Lots of other hidden costs go into the price of services other than just the time it takes to perform the service.

I seriously hope youre not in business for yourself, though I do enjoy visiting the shops that follow this methodology - at auction every weekend. Every successful shop owner that I have ever known has understood the value of buying used equipment. Your list minus the building could pretty easily be had in like new condition for around $1500 on almost every weekend.

I stand by what I said. $10 for a 15 minute job, performed by a kid earning $10/hr more than covers overhead in a well managed shop. Unfortunately, most shops arent, and their owners are greedy to boot.

 

[Ohio Auto]

I've worked in tire shops...never seen anyone offer free balance every 5k miles for the life of the tire. Not doubting you...but I would have to see the fine print.

It's absolutely obsessive/compulsive to demand your tires get balanced every 5k miles. Only need to balance your tire is if the weight falls off or dramatic tire wear occured. If I was a tire tech I probably would run every time I saw your car pull in the shop.

 

[GirlnAgarage]

http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoTireBalancing.dos

Edit: It isn't free. I imagine it's upselling the lifetime certificates when initially selling a set of tires.

 

[bw77]

I've worked in tire shops...never seen anyone offer free balance every 5k miles for the life of the tire. Not doubting you...but I would have to see the fine print.

Maybe it's because the roads here are so bad.
In upstate NY, lifetime rotation and balance is common.
Here's an example from Dunn Tire:

http://www.dunntire.com/OutTheDoorPricing/

 

[Ohio Auto]

Maybe it's because the roads here are so bad.
In upstate NY, lifetime rotation and balance is common.
Here's an example from Dunn Tire:

http://www.dunntire.com/OutTheDoorPricing/

What does the road being bad have to do with tire balance?? Unless your knocking wheel weights off?

 

[Ohio Auto]

Maybe it's because the roads here are so bad.
In upstate NY, lifetime rotation and balance is common.
Here's an example from Dunn Tire:

http://www.dunntire.com/OutTheDoorPricing/

I get the free lifetime balance...but every 5k miles?? Didn't see that anywhere in their ad.

 

[bw77]

What does the road being bad have to do with tire balance?? Unless your knocking wheel weights off?

I'm no expert on tire wear.
But here's an excerpt from the link posted above by GirlnAgarage:

Keeping Your Tires Balanced
For the sake of example, assume you have driven your tires 5,000 miles since their purchase and it's time to rotate. Over the miles, turning left and right, hitting bumps and holes you could not see or avoid, and driving down uneven road surfaces have led to uneven tread wear on your tires. Perhaps a pothole has knocked-out your vehicle's alignment (this creates uneven tire wear).

 

[Ohio Auto]

bw..it's ok you want your tires balanced every 5k...it's your car.

Your suspension ie...struts, springs, torsion bars, etc.... absorb the shock of uneven roads...not your tires. One of the primary purposes of the strut/spring assembly is to keep downward pressure on the tire to keep it wearing evenly. This coupled with alignment angles is what maintains even tire wear.

Not to mention..any tire shimmy you feel due to uneven tire wear is probably not going to be fixed by wheel balancing.

Do whatever brings you peace of mind..you asked the question..I'm giving you an informed answer based on many years in working in tire shops and service stations. There is absolutely no mechanical reason to balance your tires every 5k miles. Not unless you're driving off road in a race maybe.