Rough in is Rough

[Ludacriss]

Just started rough in wiring on my detached garage and have a few questions

Using 12/2 wg wire with 20 amp receptacles

Looking at the picture below is this a acceptable way to hook the ground to a metal box?

Also should there be more twists in the hots and neutral wires
before I secure them with a wire nut?

 

[Bondo]

Using 14/2 wg wire with 20 amp receptacles

Ayuh,... You're limited to 15a with 14ga. wire....
You'll need 12ga. for 20amps...

 

[Ludacriss]

Sorry my mistake should say 12/2

 

[Scott P]

It looks perfectly fine to me.

 

[MrMark]

Yes, that is the correct way to do the ground. A couple of comments though: you are doing nice work on the holes and the stapling. You should have a couple of twists showing in the wires. Grab them with linemans pliers and twist the ends together - try to get the twists nice and tight. Get rid of those boxes. They have no place in a proper electrical installation. They are too small and the internal clamps make them even more difficult to work with. Finally, you only need the one green screw in the box.

Get 4S deep metal boxes with 3/4 rise rings for 5/8 sheet rock.

edit: where did you get the blue nuts? Never seen them before.

 

[Gooch]

Yes, that is the correct way to do the ground. A couple of comments though: you are doing nice work on the holes and the stapling. You should have a couple of twists showing in the wires. Grab them with linemans pliers and twist the ends together - try to get the twists nice and tight. Get rid of those boxes. They have no place in a proper electrical installation. They are too small and the internal clamps make them even more difficult to work with. Finally, you only need the one green screw in the box.

Get 4S deep metal boxes with 3/4 rise rings for 5/8 sheet rock.

edit: where did you get the blue nuts? Never seen them before.

while i agree to a certain extent on the boxes, there is no need for 4sq boxes. I would be using the blue plastic nail on boxes for any residential device box.

 

[Ludacriss]

where did you get the blue nuts? Never seen them before.

Can-twist one size fits all made in canada by Ideal

spec Min 3 #22 to max 3 #10

they are handy no guess work involved.

 

[MrMark]

Ahh, I thought you might be in Canada. I don't like plastic boxes for rough service like a garage - I really don't like them anywhere but they are cheap.

 

[Ludacriss]

Too late to change boxes now; I have 30 more already nailed in place.
I did install one receptacle to see how the fit was. (Taken back out now)
It’s tight, but seemed to work all right, 12/2 is a ***** to cram in the
Box, you don't want to much extra wire sticking out with these boxes.



Thanks for the comment on the holes I was screwing around with a normal 1/2 inch drill
got pissed off and bought one of these.

 

[MrMark]

That's the drill I own. I bought it for plumbing and elec for a similar project. It is easily my most favorite tool. I woudn't even think about doing electrical without it.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I too like 4 inch square boxes, lots of room to work and leave extra wire so the outlet can be easily installed or removed. They make a "greenie" nut for grounds, it has a hole in the middle where you can let one of the strands pass thru the top, or add a pigtail out the top of the wirenut.

Technically, the wirenut is a pressure device. You are supposed to take your wires, straight as possible, all stacked together like matchsticks in a box, and then push the nut over and screw it on. If done right, it squeezes the wires tightly together and holds them in contact with each other.

Charles

 

[Ludacriss]

Technically, the wirenut is a pressure device. You are supposed to take your wires, straight as possible, all stacked together like matchsticks in a box, and then push the nut over and screw it on. If done right, it squeezes the wires tightly together and holds them in contact with each other.

Charles

Little confused on this one

The info I found on the net said to make sure they
are all the same length, minimum of 6 inches (150 mm) of conductor length
Grab the ends with lineman’s pliers put a twist and a half in them first,
then check that striped ends are even, then tighten with wire nut.

Also read the inspector will look for the twist in wires is this correct?

 

[Mike14k]

Got the same drill, it was on eBay and think I paid $75 including the original metal box and accessories. Had to replace the cord, but that's not bad. I used it when wiring our new house 5 years ago. Just be careful using a screw-in bit, it can catch and break your arm or jaw. Or knock you off a ladder. Don't ask how I know this.

Your pics look just fine, but the 4 x 4 boxes are much easier. And in my shop I used surface boxes and conduit. Easier to add onto, easier to mount and not a lot of drilling.

 

[walrus]

Little confused on this one

The info I found on the net said to make sure they
are all the same length, minimum of 6 inches (150 mm) of conductor length
Grab the ends with lineman’s pliers put a twist and a half in them first,
then check that striped ends are even, then tighten with wire nut.

Also read the inspector will look for the twist in wires is this correct?

Was the Info, manufacturers instructions? if not disregard and go to their website. Ideal will say pretwist or don't pretwist, take your choice, I think it will also say 3 twists outside the wirenut. If your inspector looks it how many twists, you have a different inspection than I'm used to.

 

[Berserker]

I don't like plastic boxes for rough service like a garage - I really don't like them anywhere but they are cheap.

Because you would rather put wires in metal boxes? Think about that.

You should have a couple of twists showing in the wires. Grab them with linemans pliers and twist the ends together - try to get the twists nice and tight. Get rid of those boxes. They have no place in a proper electrical installation. .

Little over kill, unless you are getting paid over time.

 

[Ludacriss]

Thanks for the reply’s


Thought I would post my wiring diagram to see if I missed any thing
There are four more receptacles in the ceiling that are not on the diagram
The # 8/2 is for a mig welder Front and back
The 12/2 at the top in green is for a fridge no gfci





Lighting
on the lighting circuits do they have to be GFCI?

 

[Gigfy]

MrMark,

Re: Twisting wires

That's an interesting question for me. I didn't used to twist, until I started seeing some boxes where someone had twisted the wires.

Seeing wires twisted made sense to me, as it would seem to hold the wires together better (sort of like a strain relief for the wire nut). So I started twisting the wires together when wire nutting.

However, recently I've thought more about it and wondered if twisting would cause heat buildup. Of course not with the grounds, but possibly with the neutrals or leads, particularly where several of them to tie together. So now I've gone back to not twisting.

I'm wondering which way is the most correct.

 

[green.bubbly]

Are you installing single or double receptacles?

 

[MrMark]

MrMark,

Re: Twisting wires

That's an interesting question for me. I didn't used to twist, until I started seeing some boxes where someone had twisted the wires.

Seeing wires twisted made sense to me, as it would seem to hold the wires together better (sort of like a strain relief for the wire nut). So I started twisting the wires together when wire nutting.

However, recently I've thought more about it and wondered if twisting would cause heat buildup. Of course not with the grounds, but possibly with the neutrals or leads, particularly where several of them to tie together. So now I've gone back to not twisting.

I'm wondering which way is the most correct.

Interesting. I think some will argue over twisting, but almost any electrician will twist - some are adament about it. Like Walrus posted (and Charles too) Ideal is indifferent to pre-twisting, they just want to see the wires emerging from the nut twisted. The area twisted is so small I wouldn't worry about heating issues. Twisted or not, the wires are all packed in a pressure fitting for 1 inch or so. When I twist, I pull too so that I get alot of twists in a small area so the wires are really not coming apart. I also overstrip slightly and grab only the end, which I then cut off when cutting the twisted group down to size. The linemans really tear up the copper where they grab so this little bit gets cut off. Would this be done on track houses? NO. But that is not what I aspire to.

 

[Ludacriss]

Are you installing single or double receptacles?

single receptacles

 

[Berserker]

You think about it. I don't do electrical for a living. I have higher standards. But, even a half assed electrician will twist his wires.

Using a pair of linemans pliers is overkill, unless your a chick.

I twist for two reasons, mostly to know the wirenut is grabbing, 2nd when yanking and shoving the wires in, your not pulling on the connection.

So I mostly using the nut to twist the wires, with a little of my hand grabbing the wire at the end.

But the wire nut itself should twist the wires together, unless your a wuss, or its not on their right.

 

[walrus]

Don't forget to tape your wire nuts also or someone will call you a hack

 

[Gooch]

Don't forget to tape your wire nuts also or someone will call you a hack

I could kill people for doing that.

 

[Steevo]

I have a question about the bare copper ground connections. Does NEC allow for just wire-nutting them together? I have always crimped them together with those little copper crimp rings. I thought that was required.

Note I am NOT an electrician, just someone that does their own electrical work.

 

[Jazz]

Why would anyone TAPE the wire nuts? I have seen exterior nuts which are more water tight but tape? Guess this was a joke, but I'm not a certified electrician either.

 

[Gooch]

I have a question about the bare copper ground connections. Does NEC allow for just wire-nutting them together? I have always crimped them together with those little copper crimp rings. I thought that was required.

Note I am NOT an electrician, just someone that does their own electrical work.

wire nuts are 100% fine. infact a previous poster made a post regarding a special wirenut for ground connections.

http://idealindustries.com/prodDeta...-grounding-wire-connectors&div=0&l1=grounding

 

[Aceman]

Just for the record, I pretwist using my Kliens. Sometimes when I've got 5-6 wires under one wirenut I'll put another twist or two into the wirenut using my Kleins just to make sure it's tight.

They also make a wirenut driver with a 1/4" hex bit that I use in my drill/driver when I have LOTS of connections to make. When I'm using that, I don't pretwist. It does a good enough job without it.

 

[tfi racing]

Looks like you are heading down the right track,just a couple of things:
- Just a tip-leave a bit more slack in the cable before it goes into the box,its nice to have a bit extra in case you knick a wire or have to do a future repair.
-Where are your vapour hats on the boxes?They are mandatory whether you plan on insulating or not,the inspector will call it.As for the boxes you are using,they are fine and what I would use for this project,just remember if you add a third cable anywhere,you will have to go to the deeper ones.

 

[formek]

I am no expert Far from it, But I have never had a connection problem where the wires were twisted. I worked for about 3 year as apprentice in NJ.

PS I am hoping the spelling is correct. This is a tough crowed!!!!

 

[creativecars]

From what I am seeing you have:

4 circuits for 20A receptacles
1 circuit for fridge 20A receptacle
1 circuit for exterior 20A receptacles
2 circuits for overhead lights with 4 switches
2 circuits for welding. 220, 30A receptacles
Is this correct?

Question, are all your inside receptacles at the same height?

Not to steal your thread, but I am doing a similar thing. Can I weld 4” boxes to my metal post or should I screw them in place?

 

[Gooch]

Looks like you are heading down the right track,just a couple of things:
- Just a tip-leave a bit more slack in the cable before it goes into the box,its nice to have a bit extra in case you knick a wire or have to do a future repair.
-Where are your vapour hats on the boxes?They are mandatory whether you plan on insulating or not,the inspector will call it.As for the boxes you are using,they are fine and what I would use for this project,just remember if you add a third cable anywhere,you will have to go to the deeper ones.

depending on the OP's location, vapor hat's might not be required. They're not required in my local area.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I am no expert Far from it, But I have never had a connection problem where the wires were twisted. I worked for about 3 year as apprentice in NJ.

PS I am hoping the spelling is correct. This is a tough crowed!!!!

Is crowd... as in a gathering of people.........

not crowed... as in a crow calling other crows........ or is it?

Sorry, just kidding.

I see so many misspellings here I've thought about gathering some of the "better" ones and making a thread............

Spell checkers work great, but when you misspell a word into another word, they don't work worth a flip..................

Charles

 

[Berserker]

Third generation electrician, worked 5 years in the family business residential, mostly rehabs, and some small commercial. Worked for a consulting firm for a year, doing NEC work. Now I do start up in substations. Electrical engineer. I wear fire retardant clothing every day trouble shoot 125 and 250vDC control systems.

 

[Ludacriss]

Get rid of those boxes. They have no place in a proper electrical installation. They are too small and the internal clamps make them even more difficult to work with.Get 4S deep metal boxes with 3/4 rise rings for 5/8 sheet rock.

Thanks for the advice MrMark
That is exactly what I did. Switched too 4”sqaure boxes with mud ring.
Pane in the *** to change all boxes out, but well worth it in the end.
The one box that I wired up for fit had a nick in the wire from trying to
Squeeze everything in, I’m happy that I found it now or it would have tripped the Breaker when power was sent to it.

 

[Ludacriss]

From what I am seeing you have:

4 circuits for 20A receptacles
1 circuit for fridge 20A receptacle
1 circuit for exterior 20A receptacles
2 circuits for overhead lights with 4 switches
2 circuits for welding. 220, 30A receptacles
Is this correct?

Question, are all your inside receptacles at the same height?

The welder circuits are 240/ 50 amp for my mig
Three circuits for lighting
I also have five 14/2 15 amp receptacles higher up on the wall
For TV, clock and sound system.
They are not on my wiring diagram

 

[Ludacriss]

Looks like you are heading down the right track,just a couple of things:
- Just a tip-leave a bit more slack in the cable before it goes into the box,its nice to have a bit extra in case you knick a wire or have to do a future repair.
-Where are your vapour hats on the boxes?They are mandatory whether you plan on insulating or not,the inspector will call it

Thanks for the reply tfi racing


Vapor hats are not mandatory here on a detached garage.
I will take your advice on the extra slack into the box,
Seen it firsthand how easy it is to nick a wire. (LOL)

 

[formek]

Is crowd... as in a gathering of people.........

not crowed... as in a crow calling other crows........ or is it?

Sorry, just kidding.

I see so many misspellings here I've thought about gathering some of the "better" ones and making a thread............

Spell checkers work great, but when you misspell a word into another word, they don't work worth a flip..................

Charles

Ouch!!!

LOL LOL crowd LOL LOL

 

[MrMark]

Thanks for the advice MrMark
That is exactly what I did. Switched too 4”sqaure boxes with mud ring.
Pane in the *** to change all boxes out, but well worth it in the end.
The one box that I wired up for fit had a nick in the wire from trying to
Squeeze everything in, I’m happy that I found it now or it would have tripped the Breaker when power was sent to it.

That is a nice looking installation. What type of clamps are those? Never seen them before. I think you may have different stuff in Canada. Your NM cable looks different too. Are those boxes too close to the window sill? Will you have to contend with molding?

 

[electrican]

if you had got 4 sq bracket boxes it would have been easer

 

[mobetta]

op- I think you'll really like the upgraded boxes.

well, I am glad to have gotten my spelling lessons for the day.

now off to werk i go.