Round Electric Box Conundrum: Diameter too large

[machinemanjr]

Howdy. I have my 3 1/2" round nail on Carlon electrical boxes laid out in the ceiling of my new construction garage. I ordered 4' Maxlight LED fixtures to install after the ceiling goes in...

Looking at the maxlight fixtures, they are only 3" wide, and I don't want to see 1/4" of blue plastic peeking out from the edge of the next light strips.

Should I forgo the boxes and use the inside of the fixture as the 'box'? or what else would my options be?

 

[walta]

Would a 3 inch box work?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/CARLON-1-G...ndard-Round-Ceiling-Electrical-Box/1000111209

Walta

 

[Dagny]

for sure its a blue carlon get it out of there.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Howdy. I have my 3 1/2" round nail on Carlon electrical boxes laid out in the ceiling of my new construction garage. I ordered 4' Maxlight LED fixtures to install after the ceiling goes in...

Looking at the maxlight fixtures, they are only 3" wide, and I don't want to see 1/4" of blue plastic peeking out from the edge of the next light strips.

Should I forgo the boxes and use the inside of the fixture as the 'box'? or what else would my options be?

are the fixtures listed as suitable for splicing?

 

[Norcal]

are the fixtures listed as suitable for splicing?

This, or use single gang boxes.

 

[machinemanjr]

are the fixtures listed as suitable for splicing?

I am using the recommended fixtures from the forum. They are Maxlite LSS2XT8USE4803 2-Lamp T8 LED Tube Ready 4ft Linear Utility Pre-Wired Strip Light Housing:


I should note, these are to be mounted directly to the ceiling.

To answer your question, I am not sure. I suppose I could use single-gang boxes as Norcal suggests too.

https://www.maxlite.com/products/t8-lamp-ready-fixtures/LSS2XT8USE4803

Hoping I can splice inside this fixture are forget boxes behind the fixture all together. This would in effect, cause the inside of the fixture itself to be the junction. There is a knockout in the middle of each fixture (facing the ceiling) where I could insert a wiring bushing.

 

[Terry D]

When you say they are prewired, I think they have a cord and a plug on them. But when I look at your link, it does show knockouts. So that makes me think they are made to splice inside. And if there is a knockout on the back of the fixture, bring the wire directly in the fixture with correct connectors depending on what kind of cable you are using. Its a little harder for laying out verses having a fixed box installed, but easily possible. Also some of the fixtures that I have seen that are meant to mount over boxes, have a large knockout so the splices in the box can be accessed from inside the fixture.

 

[Chucktin]

As I understand it hidden boxes are completely forbidden as well as a really bad idea.
And any box in the ceiling is going to show somewhat unless your fixture is wide enough to cover the box when the fixture is hung/mounted from the box. How wide is the shop lights (?) you're hanging?
I know the Carlon boxes have covers. (Don't know if a cover with a duplex cut-out is available tho.)
So it seems to me add covers and a little bit of paint and your done?

 

[GRB]

When you say they are prewired, I think they have a cord and a plug on them. But when I look at your link, it does show knockouts. So that makes me think they are made to splice inside. And if there is a knockout on the back of the fixture, bring the wire directly in the fixture with correct connectors depending on what kind of cable you are using. Its a little harder for laying out verses having a fixed box installed, but easily possible. Also some of the fixtures that I have seen that are meant to mount over boxes, have a large knockout so the splices in the box can be accessed from inside the fixture.

They don't have a wire and plug on them. This is for lighting an entire garage or shop, not hanging one or two over a workbench or power tool. This is planned for lighting, not toss one or two in later. Or get somebody to pick up some at Costco on impulse or order from Amazon or eBay.

Repeat after me, a light with a plug is NOT for general lighting........

 

[Terry D]

They don't have a wire and plug on them. This is for lighting an entire garage or shop, not hanging one or two over a workbench or power tool. This is planned for lighting, not toss one or two in later. Or get somebody to pick up some at Costco on impulse or order from Amazon or eBay.

Repeat after me, a light with a plug is NOT for general lighting........

Well you totally missed it. I never said they had a plug on it. I said it sounded like it when he said they were pre wired. When I looked at the specs, I saw there was no plug.

Repeat after me, read the whole post through before you reply

 

[GRB]

Howdy. I have my 3 1/2" round nail on Carlon electrical boxes laid out in the ceiling of my new construction garage. I ordered 4' Maxlight LED fixtures to install after the ceiling goes in...

Looking at the maxlight fixtures, they are only 3" wide, and I don't want to see 1/4" of blue plastic peeking out from the edge of the next light strips.

Should I forgo the boxes and use the inside of the fixture as the 'box'? or what else would my options be?

I don't see any reason to not wire directly into the fixture if you are using Romex. If it has to pass inspection, that is a question for the AHJ.

 

[Terry D]

I don't see any reason to not wire directly into the fixture if you are using Romex. If it has to pass inspection, that is a question for the AHJ.

Pretty much what I said

 

[exranger06]

When you say they are prewired, I think they have a cord and a plug on them. But when I look at your link, it does show knockouts. So that makes me think they are made to splice inside. And if there is a knockout on the back of the fixture, bring the wire directly in the fixture with correct connectors depending on what kind of cable you are using. Its a little harder for laying out verses having a fixed box installed, but easily possible. Also some of the fixtures that I have seen that are meant to mount over boxes, have a large knockout so the splices in the box can be accessed from inside the fixture.

That part in bold is actually required by code. If the fixture doesn't have a knockout big enough to access the box behind it, it's a code violation.
From NEC 410.24(B):

Access to boxes: Electric-discharge and LED luminaires surface mounted over concealed outlet, pull, or junction boxes and designed not to be supported solely by the outlet box shall be provided with suitable openings in the back of the luminaire to provide access to the wiring in the box.

 

[Terry D]

That part in bold is actually required by code. If the fixture doesn't have a knockout big enough to access the box behind it, it's a code violation.
From NEC 410.24(B):

I knew there was a code article on it, just didn't have the book in front of me to look it up. Thanks for adding that. Plus its just common sense not to do it. That's why I looked a the fixture specs to see if it showed a large knockout. they only show 1/2 inch KO's

 

[exranger06]

are the fixtures listed as suitable for splicing?

I've never heard of a fixture being suitable for splicing. I've heard of fixtures being listed as suitable as a raceway, but not suitable for splicing. The NEC doesn't seem to say anything about splicing inside a fixture, except for 410.56(D), which just says

Splices and Taps: No unnecessary splices or taps shall be made within or on a luminaire

I wouldn't call splicing the feed and the downstream fixture wires an "unnecessary" splice. And the fixture doesn't have to be suitable as a raceway for this application either.

 

[machinemanjr]

Thanks for the information gentlemen. I will remove the carlon boxes and splice inside each lamp using the 1" Knock Out and a bushing insert.

Good point on the box not being accessible from below, if the fixture is mounted over top of it with only the small 1" KO. I have attic access so I could keep a single gange box and access the connections from above, but why if you really can splice inside the fixture. Just more BS.

Agreed! No fixtures with plugs!

Thanks

 

[Terry D]

Thanks for the information gentlemen. I will remove the carlon boxes and splice inside each lamp using the 1" Knock Out and a bushing insert.

Good point on the box not being accessible from below, if the fixture is mounted over top of it with only the small 1" KO. I have attic access so I could keep a single gange box and access the connections from above, but why if you really can splice inside the fixture. Just more BS.

Agreed! No fixtures with plugs!

Thanks

Don't use bushings, you need a connector that holds the cable. If running Romex, they make plastic connectors rated for 2 cables. Or use 2 connectors. But they only need a 1/2 inch KO. If there isn't a 1/2 inch on the back, you might have to drill your own. I don't know if I have ever seen a fixture like that with 1" KO's. Not saying they don't exist. Since you have attic access, maybe just run the cables to the approximate location and leave them above the ceiling. After it is dry walled, lay out your lighting and cut the holes for the cable and go in the attic and put them through the holes and install the fixture. That way you don't have to dead nut where your wires hang down before you dry wall