Round tubing help needed

[Kaizen]

So last weekend I spent some time with my welder and some square stock making a rotisserie for my restoration project. Everything was going great till I tried to source the round tube stock for the pivot mechanism. The rotisserie works like an engine stand with a large pipe and another pipe of smaller diameter in it that rotates. So the plan calls for 3" dom 1/4 inch wall and 2.5 inch for inside it. I made 20 calls and requested quotes from everyone but apparently its not worth their time as I only need 2 feet of the 2.5 and 1 foot of the 3".
I got a 3.5 od and 4" id structural tubing from a neighbor and my original plan was to cut a groove in the 3.5 and put ball bearings around it at two or 3 points to make it turn. Another idea was to insert 1/4 inch rod along the length of it and have say 20 pieces act like long ball bearings. i'm not sure if either of these are viable options.

 

[f150skidoo]

One thing i could see with doing the "ball bearings" idea is the tube/pipe have weld seams which could make it stick and i bet with the cars weight it won't turn very well. Your best bet is to find a chunk of DOM with the correct inner diameter. If you only need a little chunk try one of the online metal suppliers.

 

[Kaizen]

One thing i could see with doing the "ball bearings" idea is the tube/pipe have weld seams which could make it stick and i bet with the cars weight it won't turn very well. Your best bet is to find a chunk of DOM with the correct inner diameter. If you only need a little chunk try one of the online metal suppliers.

initially I only found online 45 bucks a foot which is ridiculous. I got some cold rolled tube for 17 a foot that i'm going to try and see if it takes the weight.

 

[cre73]

Hey Kaizen, don't ever worry about deleting a thread because you found your answer, better yet share your problem and how you resolved it. Most likely will help someone else in the future.

 

[astroracer]

Hey Kaizen, don't ever worry about deleting a thread because you found your answer, better yet share your problem and how you resolved it. Most likely will help someone else in the future.

^^^Ditto^^^ Edit your post and put the question back in. Please...

 

[9GUY9]

Have you considered using a old axle, or front hubs off a fwd car? You would have the bearings covered, and could source either pretty cheap.

 

[Kaizen]

^^^Ditto^^^ Edit your post and put the question back in. Please...

ok its back. I originally was getting desperate because on line they were talking like 45 bucks a foot not including shipping. But after getting the 3" pipe I took a shot on amazon which I have free shipping on and found some cold rolled steel with an od of 3" that I am getting for 17 bucks a foot delivered.

I'm building this myself to save 500 bucks and have a better product then the thin walled ones being sold. This is probably the biggest thing I have built from scratch with steel so really happy its coming out well. I should have the steel this weekend and get it finished so I can use them.






A wise 70 dollar hf purchase
[Had the neighbors going for awhile told them I was making Belgium gates like on the beaches at Normandy

 

[BPJOOP93]

I like 9guy9's idea of the car hubs. Speedy metals?

 

[Kaizen]

I like 9guy9's idea of the car hubs. Speedy metals?

I was thinking that route but it would have been at least another hundred and I've had a hub fail driving and break off. Not something I want to use with me under it


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[cre73]

Good job and be sure to show us pics when done.

 

[theoldwizard1]

So the plan calls for 3" dom 1/4 inch wall and 2.5 inch for inside it.

Most pipe/tube has a ridge on the inside and there is no way another tube will slip into it without quite a bit of clearance. DOM (Drawn Over Mandrel) should NOT have any ridge on the the inside.

I suspect you will still have a clearance problem, but hopefully some sandpaper will take care of it !

 

[maverick3316]

http://www.mcmaster.com


Everything you will ever need. A bit pricey, but quality products.

 

[Kaizen]

http://www.mcmaster.com


Everything you will ever need. A bit pricey, but quality products.

jesus Christmas 88 dollars a foot? just a little pricey

 

[Kaizen]

Most pipe/tube has a ridge on the inside and there is no way another tube will slip into it without quite a bit of clearance. DOM (Drawn Over Mandrel) should NOT have any ridge on the the inside.

I suspect you will still have a clearance problem, but hopefully some sandpaper will take care of it !

yes I think that's why it called for DOM. good news is its only 6 inches long so i'll be able to get in there with an air tool. the original plans the guy said when he welded it he had issues getting the inner one to fit again due to warping. if I run into that i'll get a automotive engine block drill based hone. I know you're not supposed to use them on a car but this will be a perfect application.

 

[tlmartin84]

Have you considered using a old axle, or front hubs off a fwd car? You would have the bearings covered, and could source either pretty cheap.

Dang man, I just scrapped a set.........I plan to build a rotisserie, that would have been perfect!!!

 

[strength_and_power]

Discountsteel.com .
DOM isn't cheap but shouldn't be that bad.
2.5" OD will not slide inside 3" x 1/4" wall DOM unless you turn one piece down on a lathe. You could use a piece of 1018 cold roll solid. It is available in a 2-3/8" which gives you a 1/16" all around.
Depending on how far along you are, you can find large diameter carrier bearing on Ebay fairly cheap and get either DOM or a solid for the shaft. They would support the weight no problem and they also have a small amount of "float" to them to allow for some misalignment.

 

[strength_and_power]

My bad, pillow block bearing would be the correct term to search for.

 

[strength_and_power]

yes I think that's why it called for DOM. good news is its only 6 inches long so i'll be able to get in there with an air tool. the original plans the guy said when he welded it he had issues getting the inner one to fit again due to warping. if I run into that i'll get a automotive engine block drill based hone. I know you're not supposed to use them on a car but this will be a perfect application.

You could also look into mixing and matching the DOM and pipe/ tubing. A schedule 80 pipe would be pretty close to 1/4" wall thickness in the diameters you are talking. Use the pipe as the shaft and the DOM as the receiver end. This isn't a precise application, get within 1/8" and you will be fine

 

[maxpower_hd]

For future reference. I used metalsupermarkets the last time I needed some steel and they weren't the cheapest but reasonable and will sell small pieces no problem. In fact that is there niche. Great customer service and they let you go out back and try different things to make sure it will work. At least at the one in Woburn, MA they do.

 

[mandlebaum]

Well I am destroying my long term lurker status to post this, but I finally have some input that wasn't already mentioned so I thought I would share. I realize you have already found a cheap source for your tubing, but here is another for anyone else looking in the future. For the record, I am not affiliated with them - just a satisfied customer.

Stock Car Steel

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/dom-steel-tube-drawn-over-mandrel/

I hope it helps someone.

 

[bullnerd]

Unit bearing from the junk yard.

You broke one off?

 

[Kaizen]

For future reference. I used metalsupermarkets the last time I needed some steel and they weren't the cheapest but reasonable and will sell small pieces no problem. In fact that is there niche. Great customer service and they let you go out back and try different things to make sure it will work. At least at the one in Woburn, MA they do.

thanks I would have drove there if I knew. I called 15 places around 128 and go nowhere.

 

[Kaizen]

Unit bearing from the junk yard.

You broke one off?

I broke a front hub on my f150. not sure if that is the same thing you are talking about.

 

[houdni]

Kart axles...pillow blocks...and even gears for a chained motor

 

[astroracer]

I would go with front hubs from a junk yard. Most of them on a car will be serviceable for what you want to do. I have a stash of them for my planned rotisserie build. they are pretty cheap. I've gotten them for 10 bucks, smooth as silk when you spin them...
Mark

 

[83VillageRepair]

If you are worried about front wheel drive car stuff being heavy enough full floater 3/4 pickup rearend parts work great and are extremely heavy duty. Just grease the bearings with bearing grease (they are normally lubed by the gear oil in the differential).

To turn and then hold the position air brake slack adjusters are pretty keen as well.

 

[gordo9742000]

thanks I would have drove there if I knew. I called 15 places around 128 and go nowhere.

If you ever need tubing send me a PM. Im on the south shore and can get it at reasonable prices within a couple days.

 

[astroracer]

I was thinking that route but it would have been at least another hundred and I've had a hub fail driving and break off. Not something I want to use with me under it

An automotive hub will work fine. There is no need to worry about one "breaking off" in a no load situation like a rotisserie. You have to realize these hubs are designed to carry 50 to 60 percent of a 4000lb. vehicles weight at ALL times and then take a pothole hit that will bump that load possibly ten times that number. Hanging a 1000 lb empty body shell hanging off those hubs is nothing compared to what they see in real life.
Mark

 

[mikegt4]

I will throw my hat in the ring on this topic.
IMHO, the use of bearings is way over rated. Consider that they are a precision component yet they are placed 20 ft. apart on a flexible structure. The chances that their axial centerlines coincide are pretty slim. When the car is rotated and it is not perfectly balanced the whole thing can take off on you rotating out of control. A simple sleeve bearing (tube inside a tube with clearance) works better in these and is far cheaper to boot.

When I built my rotisserie I used common sch 40 pipe (2.5 and 2" IIRC). Photos can be seen in this thread, posts #13 & #18.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5465272#post5465272

 

[strength_and_power]

I will throw my hat in the ring on this topic.
IMHO, the use of bearings is way over rated. Consider that they are a precision component yet they are placed 20 ft. apart on a flexible structure. The chances that their axial centerlines coincide are pretty slim. When the car is rotated and it is not perfectly balanced the whole thing can take off on you rotating out of control. A simple sleeve bearing (tube inside a tube with clearance) works better in these and is far cheaper to boot.

When I built my rotisserie I used common sch 40 pipe (2.5 and 2" IIRC). Photos can be seen in this thread, posts #13 & #18.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5465272#post5465272

While you make some very valid points, I ask you to please refer to the Garage Journal Handbook, chapter 6, section 2,
" when a fellow member asks for advice, it is the fellow members' duty and obligation to promote overbuilding without regards to the original poster's pocketbook. " See also Armchair Quarterbacking.

Thank you

 

[brownbagg]

you dont need dom, your not going spin it at 800 rpm, just use pipe, who cares if there a ridge inside, that what grinders are for. the pipe not going to fit that tight. you dont need bearing either, you need some friction to keep the car from rolling fast and hurting you

 

[APEowner]

Well I am destroying my long term lurker status to post this, but I finally have some input that wasn't already mentioned so I thought I would share. I realize you have already found a cheap source for your tubing, but here is another for anyone else looking in the future. For the record, I am not affiliated with them - just a satisfied customer.

Stock Car Steel

http://www.stockcarsteel.com/dom-steel-tube-drawn-over-mandrel/

I hope it helps someone.

Thank you for changing your status and welcome the the GJ. I suspect that your contribution will in fact be helpful for someone in the future.

 

[mikegt4]

While you make some very valid points, I ask you to please refer to the Garage Journal Handbook, chapter 6, section 2,
" when a fellow member asks for advice, it is the fellow members' duty and obligation to promote overbuilding without regards to the original poster's pocketbook. " See also Armchair Quarterbacking.

Thank you

I don't know what I was thinking, I stand corrected.
A couple of these ought to meet the criteria.
https://www.zoro.com/skf-spherical-...35&gclid=COmFkdiJq8sCFU5ENwodpYYFxg&gclsrc=ds

 

[joecon]

If you want to use bearings trailer wheel bearings would work well.
You can use the spindle and taper roller bearings they are cheap and
ease to get just get a tube that fits the od of the bearings to mount to
the stand part.

 

[Kaizen]

Extremely psyched! Got the Dom tube I ordered and it fit with some air space. This is good as I have a few more passes to make and some little gussets so it will shrink and warp a little. One foot Dom delivered for 17 bucks a piece. Back on track now. Thanks for all of your input

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[mikegt4]

Looking good Kaizen.
I just used a little wedge of square tubing for gussets on my project. It can be seen in the last photo.

 

[Kaizen]

Looking good Kaizen.
I just used a little wedge of square tubing for gussets on my project. It can be seen in the last photo.

Well I don't know who was saying you underbuild anything but I'm going to cut my 6 inch pieces I think and saddle it like you did in square tube cut in half. i'll have to look at mine but that is far more support. Maybe i'll just add the gussets. either way I'm sure its fine. yours sure is perty. Thanks for sharing.

 

[mikegt4]

My "support" is 2 1/2" sch 40 pipe (2.875" OD, 2.47" ID) saddled in 3" channel, 10" long. The sliding upright is 2 1/2" - 3/16" wall sq. tube 30" long.

The base is 3" - 3/16" wall sq. tube, 5' wide overall with 18" long side pieces for the "feet" and a 28" upright braced with some angle iron.

I retired from a career in R&D developing manufacturing equipment and processes used in disposable diaper production. Everything that I designed into my rotisserie is engineered to withstand a 3500# load. Due to the fact that my welding is, shall we say sub par, I also did a lot of "belt and suspenders" configurations so in some areas it is a bit overbuilt.

Hope this helps.

 

[buildyourown]

onlinemetals.com
by far the cheapest and easiest place to get a ft or 2 of something.

 

[Kaizen]

So here is my complete but unfinished rotisserie. It spins with one hand and stays put which is nice working alone. I used grade 8 half inch bolts. It rolls well in the hf wheels. Only thing I don't like is the slop between the sliding parts I wish was tighter and would be nice to have a hydraulic ram. I had to use an engine hoist which ***** in a one car garage.

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