Between 705 & 1200 SQ/FT Rowan Garage

[ScottW]

Starting a thread for my soon-to-be-built (if 2021 lumber prices don’t bankrupt us) 24x40 detached 3-car garage. I wish it could be bigger, but we are also building a house with a 3 car attached garage so with setbacks, buffers, drain fields, etc there isn’t a lot of extra room (which feels weird to say because the property is a little over an acre, but we can only build on about half of that). Regardless, for me this combination will be a huge increase in garage space, previously I have only had an attached 2 car garage.

Here is the entrance to the property from the street.



This was my starting point for a a basic design (my layout will be flipped) because I want a lift in the tall stall, and will have a storage area upstairs over the double door area.



I couldn’t come up with a unique garage name for this thread until I thought of the type of tree that was growing right in the middle of our project- a Rowan tree (otherwise known as a Mountain Ash). During the summer has orange berries but this is the best picture I have of it, behind my Mustang before we broke ground this spring.

 

[RogueFab]

Having that and a 3 car garage should afford you the space for most projects... What do you work on? What kind of work? Have any update pics?

 

[ScottW]

Thanks for commenting RogueFab. Pretty much entirely automotive work for me. I’ve got a two car garage right now with only room for my workbench/cabinets/tools and one car, so it will feel good to put our drivers in the house garage and classics/projects in the detached. I’m planning on the basics in the detached garage- a lift (I’m leaning 4 post but having a 6” slab poured in case I decide to go 2 post), MiG welder, air compressor. Right now house foundation is complete and back filled, hole is dug for detached garage and we are waiting for the footings to be put in for it.

 

[Krfjkm]

Looks like a nice shop!!

 

[ScottW]

Thanks Krfjkm!
Footings are in and stem walls are waiting for inspection before pour. That should all happen this week.

 

[ScottW]

Not really garage related, but thought this would be interesting to ask for ideas on. The property we are building on had an old farmhouse on it at one time. Some cement slabs and an old fireplace are all that’s left standing. We are leaving this alone for now as it’s not in our way, but are thinking of trying to salvage the old bricks for a walkway or fire pit or something. Any other ideas how we could repurpose these bricks in a way that gives a nod to the old house that once stood here?

 

[jbrentd]

Looks like it's going to be a nice garage! As for the old brick fireplace...where does it sit in relation to where the house is going to be? If it were in the backyard in a good spot and not crumbling, I could see clearing the vegetation and leaving it as a an outdoor fireplace. If you do salvage the bricks, I like the idea of a walkway or use them to build an outdoor kitchen/grill.

 

[ScottW]

Thanks jbrentd for your feedback and ideas. It’s not in our way, but also not in the best spot and the mortar in the upper front is pretty crumbled. One day last fall I was checking that out and wiggled a brick out of the front, only to have like a dozen black (garter) snakes start wiggling and falling out everywhere! Out the front where I pulled the brick, down the flue into the fireplace, etc. Turns out the whole front structure incorporates metal lintels (good design) and there is space behind these bricks the snakes like to curl up in late in the day when it’s getting cool outside but the bricks are still warm from the evening sun beating on the face of it. Looked like the photo below (not mine), straight out of Indiana Jones lol.

 

[captain14]

A neighbor years ago salvaged bricks from a house they were tearing down and built a walkway from the front gate to the porch steps.
I would take a picture but the next owner poured concrete over to bricks for a “new” sidewalk look.

Another neighbor removed a garage from one location and rebuilt it on his property.

Both of the above projects were from an area where they were treading down houses to build a new 4 lane road.

 

[mikewire]

Looks great! Following along to see your progress. I'm looking at building something similar, but attached and possibly 4 car if it's within budget. I like the one bay for a lift, great idea I'd like to copy you on. How high are the ceilings going to be in each bay?

 

[ScottW]

Thanks captain14 and Mikewire. The ceiling on the wide side is 9’ and the ceiling on the tall bay is 12’6” (although that is with a flat ceiling truss and some of designs on here have me questioning why I wouldn’t put a scissor truss in there and gain some more height in the middle). The storage room above the wide side is a rafter/beam design (not trusses), 7’ high to the collar ties, about 10’ wide without having to duck your head, but usable for storage right to the edges.

When I was going through the permitting process the truss company submitted an unsolicited design for storage trusses over the wide part, which was good because they were proposing to save me money, but they didn’t understand that I purposely asked the design engineer for a storage area that could hold a LOT of weight without deflecting. I’ll do a separate update showing the load comparisons and explain why this was so important to me.

 

[ScottW]

The pour got delayed due to a few 100+ degree days we had, but finally happened this last week.

 

[ScottW]

Ok, I said I was going to post about the structure design and decisions around the upstairs storage area in my shop. I’ve had previous experiences with an overhead shop storage area that almost catastrophically failed due to overload, and it happened one transmission core, cylinder head, and dropout third member at a time.

So when I was considering the design for my overhead storage area, I asked the engineer for a structure that could hold a LOT of weight without me having to worry about it. I have about 490 sq ft of storage space (essentially 24’x24‘ minus the area open to the stairs coming up from below) using a ridge beam and rafter design, with 2x12 joists on 12” centers, 3/4” T&G plywood, supported by two 5 1/2 x 18 GLBs and one post under the top of the stairs. The rafters will sit on 2-1/2 ft pony walls so will create useful space almost all the way to the edges.

When I sent the house and garage plans to the truss company to design the trusses, they also included an unsolicited plan to put storage trusses in my detached garage instead of the stick built storage area. They said they did that to show they could save me some money by using storage trusses because my plans were “overkill” (they underestimate my abilities to collect junk ).

One immediate shortcoming of the storage trusses was obvious, you could only put weight on the center 14’ of the truss, so my usable storage space would decrease to around 250 square feet taking the stairs into account (almost 50% loss!). I told them I was also concerned with deflection and load. They said that with a 2x10 lower chord they could offer 40 lbs per square foot live load/10 lbs dead load. I consulted my engineer who did some math and said those trusses on 24“ centers could safely support 11,900 lbs of storage across the usable floor space, with about a 10% safety margin. Comparatively, his engineered design would support 22,400 lbs with a 50% safety margin. You could double up on the trusses but then you would lose all the savings, and then you’d still have to deal with that loss of square footage.

So I stuck with the heavy duty design, but we did use storage trusses over the attached garage where the attic loads will be much lighter.

 

[makemenuconfig]

Looks nice! Did you do the forming and/or pouring yourself? If so, how did that go, how many hands did you have for help on pour day, and any tips for finishing/troweling the top of the wall?

 

[ScottW]

Thanks makemenuconfig. No, I didn’t do any of the forms or pouring myself. The concrete company had essentially 4 guys working the pour- one handling the pump truck nozzle, one following behind vibrating the concrete in the forms and tamping out air voids, one behind him doing rough leveling and troweling, final guy a ways behind setting j-bolts and doing finish troweling. I just read through your design pages and will follow your build thread. I’m in Pierce County but feel like I went through a good bit of permit hell myself earlier in the year. King County is likely worse. Good luck.

 

[ScottW]

After waiting 4 months for the price of lumber to drop to (somewhat) acceptable levels, in August we opened the wallet and started buying it. Six weeks later I finally have some progress to show on the garage. Most of the framing energy over the last 6 weeks has been going into the house so we can get it closed up before the rainy season takes over. So first, here’s the house and attached garage.

 

[ScottW]

And here’s a couple pictures of the detached garage:

 

[jbrentd]

Glad to see it's coming along. Looking really goo, so far. So, are the two garages facing each other? Just trying to understand the layout of your lot.

 

[ScottW]

Glad to see it's coming along. Looking really goo, so far. So, are the two garages facing each other? Just trying to understand the layout of your lot.

Thanks jbrentd, they do face each other but are not directly across from each other. The west end wall of the attached garage is almost in alignment with the east end wall of the detached. I’ll try to post a drawing or picture that shows the layout better.

 

[ScottW]

Here is a high level site plan that shows the alignment. Our house backs up to a steep slope down to a valley below. We had to have a GeoTech engineering company determine how close to the edge we could safely build. They said 30ft but we went at least 20ft further back from that, both for safety and just to have a bit of back yard.

 

[ScottW]

Here is the valley the back of the house looks out to. It was this view of Mt. Rainier that helped sell us on the property a few years ago.

 

[ScottW]

A little more progress, in the second picture taken from above you can really see how the flooring in the upstairs storage area is shaping up.

 

[jbrentd]

Looks great and that view is amazing!

 

[ScottW]

Framing the upstairs rafters, the post is temporary until the gable end wall framing is done and supports the ridge beam from the end. The wall is a little more complicated because of a window in the middle.

 

[ScottW]

Much of the efforts of late have been getting the house roof completed so we can dry out that structure, so far this has been our 4th rainiest October on record and it’s not over yet. The little garage is ready for some attention now, and it should start tomorrow.

 

[NickH]

Wow, this is going to be an awesome space, and an AMAZING VIEW! Congrats, and good luck!

 

[ScottW]

Thanks NickH. The garage hasn‘t gotten a lot of attention since getting roofed and wrapped, all the energy (and $$$) has been going into the house- that has gotten roofing, wrap, most windows, some exterior doors, plumbing rough-in, and HVAC (in work). I plan to plumb the garage for a gas heater that will come later.

 

[nadogail]

Great Looking Project, is that the mountain that erupted in recent geologic time in the background?

 

[ScottW]

Thanks nadogail- I think you are referring to Mt St Helens that blew up in 1980? That’s roughly 100 miles south of Mt Rainier but all the Cascade mountains are part of the “Ring of Fire” and are considered volcanically active. Probably won’t happen my lifetime, but notice my home/shop is not down in the valley lahar zone, I’m risk averse that way lol.

 

[ScottW]

This is my shop interior lighting and electrical plan, welcome any suggestions. Shaded gray area on the left is the footprint for a four post lift. Using shaft drive door openers. I recently added the outlets in the ceiling over the two right side parking spaces for battery trickle chargers. Got that inspiration looking around my dad‘s shop and realizing we always have extension cords plugged into the wall, running over the workbench and across the floor running to the car batteries.

 

[jbrentd]

Nice to see an update. How's the main house coming along?

As for the elec plan, I think it looks good. Just have a few comments/questions.

• You might want to add a light around the man door, either on the wall our in the ceiling of the overhang.
• What about lights on the front, either above the OHDs or flanking them?
• For the upstairs lighting, it might be convenient to have a switch upstairs as well.
• Will all of the 4' lights be on the same switch? I could see where 3 zones might make sense (back wall, single bay, double bay).
• What's going to be in the top right corner?

 

[brettd85]

Good suggestions above. How about 220v power in the ceiling for a lift?

 

[ScottW]

Nice to see an update. How's the main house coming along?

As for the elec plan, I think it looks good. Just have a few comments/questions.

• You might want to add a light around the man door, either on the wall our in the ceiling of the overhang.
• What about lights on the front, either above the OHDs or flanking them?
• For the upstairs lighting, it might be convenient to have a switch upstairs as well.
• Will all of the 4' lights be on the same switch? I could see where 3 zones might make sense (back wall, single bay, double bay).
• What's going to be in the top right corner?

Thanks jbrentd on the outside lights suggestions, those along with outside outlets, motion lights, security cameras, etc are on a different view I have with the elevations. I’ll look at posting those too for clarity.

I thought about an upstairs switch before and just couldn’t envision a scenario of using it, but since you mentioned it again I just thought of one so may rethink that.

I was thinking of two zones, the back wall where the workbench(es) will be, and all three bays together. My electrician suggested three zones the same as you are suggesting, so I could mull that one over further. It was just hard to picture turning one bay on without the others no matter what I went in there for. My dad’s shop has like 6 zones and it’s really too many so maybe I am averse lol.

I’m not absolutely sure about the top right corner, all I‘ve really thought is a good place to store engines on a stand, my folded up engine hoist, etc. I’m definitely not as good at envisioning the use of every square foot like some others on this site, but I have been learning from them.

Appreciate all the suggestions!

 

[ScottW]

Good suggestions above. How about 220v power in the ceiling for a lift?

Thanks brettd85. The 4 post lifts I’ve been looking at- the Advantage DX9000 XLT for example, are all 120V-20A so while I originally thought of a 220V drop there I likely wouldn’t need it. Maybe I should put both in for maximum future flexibility though…

 

[ODIS]

You have a great location and will certainly be a wonderful investment.

We had a home on South Hill (Tahoma Vista) for over 30 years and for the most part, loved the location and the views while we were working.

On pages 6 & 7 in my thread, discussed our landscaping work and the shop space that was carved out from underneath the home.

Our best to you on your projects and your home/shop.

Odis.

 

[ScottW]

Nice to see an update. How's the main house coming along?

Coming along slowly but going pretty well. Electrical in the house is signed off and power getting connected next week. Tomorrow we have house framing/shear, plumbing rough-in, mechanical rough-in, gas line pressure inspections, so we are getting ready to insulate and cover.

Here’s the house garage from the detached garage.



and the reverse



a view from another angle

 

[greyghost18t]

I have to watch this thread since it has the same title as my Son. Great tree! You should post pictures when it blooms this spring! The house and the garage are coming along great and can't wait to see the progress!

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Yeah, in because my hippie parents named me after that darn tree

Dad, if that's you, yes I grew up strong with gravel in my gut and spit in my eye..

 

[ScottW]

I have to watch this thread since it has the same title as my Son. Great tree! You should post pictures when it blooms this spring! The house and the garage are coming along great and can't wait to see the progress!

Uh-oh, I must not have made it clear that the tree was going to be right in the middle of our garage and unfortunately was the first thing to be removed when we started excavation. We have some Rowan saplings around the property that are likely related to that tree and we plan to utilize some of them into our landscaping when we eventually get to that point. So the Rowan tree will live on!

 

[greyghost18t]

Uh-oh, I must not have made it clear that the tree was going to be right in the middle of our garage and unfortunately was the first thing to be removed when we started excavation. We have some Rowan saplings around the property that are likely related to that tree and we plan to utilize some of them into our landscaping when we eventually get to that point. So the Rowan tree will live on!

I guess I can't read that well! ha! That's all good. We have some Rowan trees that we will start once we get out new place. It is great to see them popping up else ware.