Rules on the smokes

[sberry]

What are the rules on the smoke alarms? I assume the locations will be in the directions? I took a house rewire this week, no one that looked at it wanted it too bad, I worked on it today and when I got a lot of it torn apart it doesn't look so bad.
It had been started a couple of times and what a mess. You cant trust any of the old work. It needs more spaces but may just add a sub. It has an old SQD QO but is in beautiful shape and the entrance conductors are good. Only 20 spaces.
I keep forgetting pics of these gems, wires all over, no connectors, flying splices, cut off ground wires. I am going to replace most of it, got old wire and even the new is old. I sorted out most of the mysterys, have 1 or 2 to go yet. Had so much stuff strung together I shut the main off to cut the old away, sorted out some, hooked a couple recepts back in and some basement lights for the other trades.

 

[dw1]

The smoke detectors fall under the building code. New construction, you need one on each floor and in each bedroom, in the attached garage. Since you are doing a remodel (no additions to house), see if you can get by with smokes that have 10 year battery, or just add one on each floor (interconnected)

 

[prostreetamx]

Not aware of the attached garage smoke detector code. I just about finished my new attached garage and this was not mentioned or included on my approved prints. I did the electrical prints and all of the wiring myself. I wouldn't even want a smoke detector in my garage since I create lots of smoke in my garages with all the grinding, welding and painting I do. I have wired hundreds of houses over the years but none in the last 10 years other than my own garage. You do need to interconnect all smokes now and any ceiling height change over 2" requires another unit.

 

[Norcal]

What is the building code in use in Michigan? That is where the requirements will be found as been already mentioned.

 

[Stuart in MN]

This appears to be current information on where to put smoke detectors in Michigan: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/l...tion_Code_for_Existing_Buildings_545966_7.pdf

Personally, if I were doing construction projects I'd have copies of the current NEC codebook and any other code books that apply in my area. They aren't cheap but then you have the correct information and you don't have problems with the inspector.

 

[ard]

Not aware of the attached garage smoke detector code. I just about finished my new attached garage and this was not mentioned or included on my approved prints. I did the electrical prints and all of the wiring myself. I wouldn't even want a smoke detector in my garage since I create lots of smoke in my garages with all the grinding, welding and painting I do. I have wired hundreds of houses over the years but none in the last 10 years other than my own garage. You do need to interconnect all smokes now and any ceiling height change over 2" requires another unit.

FWIW- I installed a line for a heat detector in the attached garage...never installed one, but figured it wouldn't have the falsing a smoke (photoelectric or particulate) would have. Also wired for two in the attic, one over the HVAC. Also never installed

 

[larry4406]

I am currently building in Montgomery County MD. They use the 2015 NEC:
- Every bedroom has a smoke detector
- In the hallway outside the bedrooms there is a CO/Smoke
- Every floor with a fuel burning appliance has a CO/Smoke
- Every floor has a smoke

So in the case of the houses I build:
- Basement is a CO/smoke as we have 2 gas furnaces and a water heater
- When the optional basement den/bedroom is taken, it gets a smoke
- First floor is a CO/smoke because we have a family room gas fireplace and a gas cooktop
- Second floor hall has a CO/Smoke
- Bedrooms have a smoke
- When the master bedroom gets the optional gas fireplace, it then gets a CO/Smoke
- When the attic bedroom and playroom option is chosen, the playroom gets a CO/Smoke as it is outside the bedroom and the bedroom gets its own smoke.

All are battery powered (CO/smokes I think are 4AA's while the smokes are 9V) and daisy chained wired with 14/3 and I believe on their own circuit.

 

[sberry]

Last retro I did which started out as a repair and progressed from there I used common battery units and could easily go back and add wired units. Sometimes switch loops are easier to wire, could bring the power along with 3 conductor and use 3 conductor in the loops.
Right now there are 3 other outlets all over the house tied to what must be one of the original circuits. A bit of scrap knob and tube but has long been abandoned but had old cloth 2 conductor cable and then someone hacked in to it with NM and recently NM B but got it all bruised, no connectors and cant trust the grounds were tied.
I recently did a follow up on a handyman job. The good news was that he used 4 wire UF. He however left a floating panel and bonded neutral sub.
I found some scrap used pipe, great as it blended in, dug the end of the wire up, piped it to the panel, added a ground bar and rod.
He had wired a quite a bit in the buildings. There was a daisey chain of sorts, they connected a single circuit to another outbuilding. I opened a couple boxes for some minor changes, adding a gfci or 2 and a switch to the entrance of the outbuilding. Anyway he had tied the grounds together and hooked them to the devices and I gfci.

 

[alfredeneuman]

I took a house rewire this week, no one that looked at it wanted it too bad, I worked on it today and when I got a lot of it torn apart it doesn't look so bad.

Shouldn't you have a license to do work on a property other than your own?

 

[sberry]

I should. I am assisting the owner.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Around here they're pushing the smoke and carbon monoxide detectors on any remodels and new construction now

 

[JazzBlueRT]

Shouldn't you have a license to do work on a property other than your own?

When a licensed electrician stops by Home Depot at 6am to load his truck up with workers, are those workers also licensed?

Licensing of trades should be outlawed.

 

[rockettgpw]

Licensing of trades should be outlawed.

Ahhh Ok, Why?

 

[mm08822]

When a licensed electrician stops by Home Depot at 6am to load his truck up with workers, are those workers also licensed?

Licensing of trades should be outlawed.

All work performed by a licensed electrical contractor is supposed to be under his supervision regardless of how experienced his workers are. Licensee is responsible for his employees. Employees do not have to be licensed. Many states require continuing ed classes for renewal.

Licensing provides a means to ascertain some minimum level of knowledge and hands on has been obtained. Also requires liability insurance is in effect.

A reputable contractor is trainiing apprentices for the future generations.

Low-lifes exist in all professions.

 

[sberry]

I havnt finished out a house lately but I do well with inspections, the reason I learned about code was I missed a couple when I was a kid, in 25 years and about 100 service installs havnt missed one.
I don't take all the work I could get, don't advertise and really do stuff others turn down or for close friends. When I do my own and I get a chance to meet the inspector I do, my design and fitting is good, they almost always comment, they assume I am an electrician, I usually don't comment.
Last one I replaced a 100 with a 100 and the guy mention that everyone thinks they need 200 and when I said I changed the range to gas and had a minor question about his acceptance of the method to city water,,,, (which I knew before I asked) he said carry on, looks like you done this before.

 

[alfredeneuman]

When a licensed electrician stops by Home Depot at 6am to load his truck up with workers, are those workers also licensed?

Licensing of trades should be outlawed.

In California the workers are required to be either State Certified Journeymen or Apprentices enrolled in an approved apprenticeship program. The ratio is 1 to 1 Jmen to Apps.
Most don't shop at the HD and none get their employees from the HD parking lot.

Licensing and inspections are aimed at reducing the number of hack quality jobs that Sberry's dealing with right now. (Fires and electrocutions)

Did you take a test in the past and fail it by any chance?

 

[prostreetamx]

I now work as a union electrician, currently doing Trade Shows but I have wired hundreds of houses as a licensed electrician as well as my share of commercial work. I can say that even some of the guys I currently work with have no business in the trade. Most have no residential experience at all and don't want to learn more than they already know. I guess every trade has this type of worker but electrical work just seems to be to important and risky for this type of worker. I have no problems adding more smoke detectors for safety but the builder made me put one in my kitchen because it was on their approved prints. It tripped a lot when cooking so is no longer there. I wired my own house but still had to use their original approved prints as a minimum just in case I did not close when done and they had to resell it to someone else. It is a tract house.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

All work performed by a licensed electrical contractor is supposed to be under his supervision regardless of how experienced his workers are. Licensee is responsible for his employees. Employees do not have to be licensed. Many states require continuing ed classes for renewal.

Licensing provides a means to ascertain some minimum level of knowledge and hands on has been obtained. Also requires liability insurance is in effect.

A reputable contractor is trainiing apprentices for the future generations.

Low-lifes exist in all professions.

Apprentices have to be registered with the state around here and carry a card.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I now work as a union electrician, currently doing Trade Shows but I have wired hundreds of houses as a licensed electrician as well as my share of commercial work. I can say that even some of the guys I currently work with have no business in the trade. Most have no residential experience at all and don't want to learn more than they already know. I guess every trade has this type of worker but electrical work just seems to be to important and risky for this type of worker. I have no problems adding more smoke detectors for safety but the builder made me put one in my kitchen because it was on their approved prints. It tripped a lot when cooking so is no longer there. I wired my own house but still had to use their original approved prints as a minimum just in case I did not close when done and they had to resell it to someone else. It is a tract house.

 

[mm08822]

Apprentices have to be registered with the state around here and carry a card.

As long as formal training with an approved curriculum (including safety practices) can be documented along with the proper work experience, one can sit for the test in nj. The pre-reqs for the test are well scrutinized.

For those who work out of the trunk of their car under the ho's permit are the ones i would like to turn in. Those are typically the ones putting people at risk.

 

[sberry]

In Michigan they need to carry a card.
I don't do this full time and am pretty fussy. I cant afford a mess or have someone look and say,,,, wtf. I do it like a fussy inspector is going to look.
This house shouldn't even had the power on in it. Should have been condemned. It had been worked on several times, each worse and more tied on an original circuit. Dozens of taps to it with twisted flying splices. A couple contractors looked at it, none real anxious and one gave way too low price and too high expectations.
I talked the owner in to abandoning and stripping all the used, no salvage of any of it. I aint putting drywall and paint over a 50 year old wire and shoving an outlet tester in a socket is not much of an assurance when you look behind it and find out there isn't even a box.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

As long as formal training with an approved curriculum (including safety practices) can be documented along with the proper work experience, one can sit for the test in nj. The pre-reqs for the test are well scrutinized.

For those who work out of the trunk of their car under the ho's permit are the ones i would like to turn in. Those are typically the ones putting people at risk.

Ive had more than 1 licensed journeyman electrician,and plumyers work for me that wasn't smart enough to pour piss out of a boot on a job site over the years.
They're great at taking tests though.
The guy who I learned residential wiring from back in the day was a,26 year apprentice because he wasn't good at taking tests.
You put tools in his though and I'd put him up against anybody out there though.
RIP Danny Sorenson,you old wiring *******!

 

[theoldwizard1]

I think it is all up to local jurisdiction.

• IMHO, every bedroom should have one
• The hallways leading to/from bedrooms
• The top of a stairwell
• A utility or laundry room should have one. Add in a CO and gas detector if used in those room

Some cities are now requiring, that if one detector goes off, they all go off. Some places want voice commands.

 

[PelicanPines]

Agree with oldwizard ... gas or explosive gas detector too...

From personal experience... whose cat flicked on the stove and tried to kill me.

 

[Cmreschke]

When a licensed electrician stops by Home Depot at 6am to load his truck up with workers, are those workers also licensed?

Licensing of trades should be outlawed.

How about licensing of all professions be outlawed? Doctors lawyers and police officers should just be able to do their job too Right? Great idea!!!!!

 

[Dragfluid]

When a licensed electrician stops by Home Depot at 6am to load his truck up with workers, are those workers also licensed?

Licensing of trades should be outlawed.

/popcorn

 

[dscheidt]

I think it is all up to local jurisdiction.

• IMHO, every bedroom should have one
• The hallways leading to/from bedrooms
• The top of a stairwell
• A utility or laundry room should have one. Add in a CO and gas detector if used in those room

Some cities are now requiring, that if one detector goes off, they all go off. Some places want voice commands.

Codes are all up to the local jurisdiction. Despite what code bodies call themselves they have no authority. They rely on being adopted by states and local municipalities.

Interconnection has been required for several code revisions, so should be pretty well universally required.

 

[aandpdan]

The local fire department should be able to tell you where to install the smokes. Around here the FD issues a "Certificate of Compliance" and not the wiring inspector.

An attached garage requires a heat detector in MA, current code.

 

[reader2580]

Many cities here in the Minneapolis area require adding interconnected hardwired smoke alarms when doing something as basic as having windows replaced. I suspect I was required to add them when remodeling my house, but I was going to add them anyhow so I didn't check.

My father worked as a electrician in high school and college even though he wasn't licensed. State rules required that he only do work if a licensed electrician was on-site, but his boss had him work alone most of the time. The only time the boss usually showed up was when the inspector came for an inspection. My father hasn't done electrical work for pay since the 1960s, but he still helps out friends and family at no charge. He insists the owner do some of the work so he is just helping the owner do their own work.

 

[sberry]

I cant recall if I ever wired a house with smokes, don't do this all the time but curious, do we simply put fixture boxes and run a 3 conductor between them all? (I can see where its possible to use 3 to supply lights and use the red for interconnection but I am not fond of making a bowl of spaghetti for some homeowner type to try to figure out, a separate wire for the whole loop would be simpler.

 

[Wirepuller]

What are the rules on the smoke alarms? I assume the locations will be in the directions? I took a house rewire this week, no one that looked at it wanted it too bad, I worked on it today and when I got a lot of it torn apart it doesn't look so bad.
It had been started a couple of times and what a mess. You cant trust any of the old work. It needs more spaces but may just add a sub. It has an old SQD QO but is in beautiful shape and the entrance conductors are good. Only 20 spaces.
I keep forgetting pics of these gems, wires all over, no connectors, flying splices, cut off ground wires. I am going to replace most of it, got old wire and even the new is old. I sorted out most of the mysterys, have 1 or 2 to go yet. Had so much stuff strung together I shut the main off to cut the old away, sorted out some, hooked a couple recepts back in and some basement lights for the other trades.

You took a house rewire without knowing NEC/NFPA? Sounds legit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sberry]

I will get it right. I was just asking some questions here,,, just to see if you know anything about it.