Running a house panel on 110volt only

[Highbeam]

Haven't needed to try it yet but nobody ever seems to think that there is anything wrong with backfeeding the whole panel using only 110 volts other than obviously not getting to use 220 appliances.

 

[jawnd393]

I would identify any multi wire circuits and turn off one side of each one. I don't think that makes it legal and proper but it would feel better.

 

[luvit]

this is the best thread ever on TGJ.. no transfer switch nazis, etc, and what not..

.

 

[darkk]

My son in law just did this. He used the generator from his race trailer. He just shut off all the 220 volt appliances and was a little frugal in his electric used during the last storm. His big generator used too much gas so he just connected the little generator to the safety switch on the panel. It worked for the whole house.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I do run one 220 volt appliance with the 3500 watt genset! I have cooked many pots of ramen noodles on the electric stovetop with genset 220 power. A single burner is not that many watts.

When backfeeding with 220 the neutral only carries the difference in amperage between the two legs. When running in 110 mode, the neutral must carry the sum. As such, I am limited to 30 amps of 110 going out of the genset. Can be all on one leg or split, shouldn't matter.

That's fine though since the point is to use a small inverter genset which is generally only available in wattages under 3000.

Honda does make a 5500 watt inverter generator which has a 240v 30a 4 prong plug. 5500 is only 23a @ 240v but that's a good amount of juice! That unit works great and I've used it when I lived off grid. We used it to power an inverter which charged a large 48v battery bank.

Honda also makes a cable that will tie 2 inverter generators together to get more juice. But that only works with the smaller EU units that have the plug on them to sync the 2 generators together.

 

[bd8134]

I have the Honda EU2000 combo pack, a regular 2000w inverter generator and a special companion inverter. It is available on most of the smaller Honda / Yamaha / Subaru inverter generators. I have a properly installed and inspected interlock on my panel. I used a 30A cable from the inverters, 110v only, to an outside connection box. The cable goes to the first 2 pole 30A circuit breaker in my panel so is connected to both 'poles'.
I switch off all my breakers, 110v and 220v, switch off the main supply breaker and switch on the double breaker which goes to inverters. I have marked each breaker so I know which breaker supplies what and switch them all on, I leave the 220v breakers off.
Except the one which goes to my garage subpanel which I switch on after I have turned off all the 220v breakers in that panel.
With the interlock I can have any light or outlet live, no 220v though. For me the combined ~3600w works great, coffee maker, fridge, careful use of microwave, boiler, pellet stove, etc, and most important of all, I can still work in the garage..
I also added a wireless clamp wattage monitor so I can see how much power it is drawing.
Very quiet, over 8 hours on 1 gallon per inverter, light enough for us old gits to carry, small and great for other portable use.

 

[matt151617]

I actually just went through this. I got a cheaper Champion generator that only puts out 120v. Hooked up an interlock, and split the single hot line from the generator into both legs of the 30 amp double breaker. Only 240v circuits are hot water heater, stove, and oven (couldn't run them even if the generator did put out 240v). The garage subpanel feed has a 240v breaker but still works because there is only 120v loads.

 

[Highbeam]

Thanks guys for telling us about your actual experience doing this. I have the interlock as well but do not see any reason to shut off any more breakers than I have to, these things aren't meant to be used as switches. I just turn off the water heater and hot tub.

I sure do like the honda 2000 inverter set and even better with the parallel setup for 4000 watts. There are inverter sets that are more than 3000 watts but they are very very expensive and heavy.

 

[Spacecoastz]

How would one identify any multi wire circuits? My home was built in 2001. Are multi wire circuits something you find in older homes. I too plan on feeding the house wire system 120v to both legs during a utility power outage, using a TT-30 adapter to a L14-30.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

How would one identify any multi wire circuits? My home was built in 2001. Are multi wire circuits something you find in older homes. I too plan on feeding the house wire system 120v to both legs during a utility power outage, using a TT-30 adapter to a L14-30.

You should start a new thread. This one is more than 10yrs old

 

[Norcal]

Been quite a spike of zombie threads lately.

 

[ipgenie]

Every 50 Amp RV I've ever seen is wired with breakers on both phases for 240v power. Whenever they plug into a 30a 120v pedistal the adapter combines both hot legs at the plug providing 120v to both legs just like you are describing. It works great anywhere 240v is not required.

Also, if you wire your cord for 240v and use an RV adapter to combine the two hot legs at the generator, you simply have to remove the adapter from the cord if you ever need to plug into a larger 240v capable generator. Larger RVs also often run two small generators (together still producing 120v but more amps) in parallel when more power is needed. The little 2000 watt Hondas are a good example

I use a similar method to feed the transfer switch in my home during power outages. My baseline use on emergency power is 600 watts with peaks at 900 watts. I only power the fridge, freezer, boiler system, internet/computer and some lights. My Honda 2200 can run it much of the day on a tank of gas. My longest outage was 8 hours so I don't really know what my runtimes would be like in an extended outage like some of you experience, but I think I'd just need a few cans of gas to get by.

Edit: I'll have to look closer at the dates. I missed the zombie nature of this thread. Yes, lots of them the past week or so.

 

[Spacecoastz]

Thanks Ipgenie....I have the answer I need....appreciate the input on using only 120v.

 

[nadogail]

After rereading the original post I feel that trying to run a 220 panel off a 120 generator is not Half Assed, it is quarter assed.

Maybe I am being something of a snob, but you aren’t sending a boy to do a man’s work, you are sending a toddler.

 

[mike93lx]

After rereading the original post I feel that trying to run a 220 panel off a 120 generator is not Half Assed, it is quarter assed.

Maybe I am being something of a snob, but you aren’t sending a boy to do a man’s work, you are sending a toddler.

Huh?

 

[Sumboodie]

Thanks guys for telling us about your actual experience doing this. I have the interlock as well but do not see any reason to shut off any more breakers than I have to, these things aren't meant to be used as switches. I just turn off the water heater and hot tub.

I sure do like the honda 2000 inverter set and even better with the parallel setup for 4000 watts. There are inverter sets that are more than 3000 watts but they are very very expensive and heavy.

I've been in plenty of shops that used breakers as switches. Some for 30, 40+ years like that.

 

[Spacecoastz]

After rereading the original post I feel that trying to run a 220 panel off a 120 generator is not Half Assed, it is quarter assed.

Maybe I am being something of a snob, but you aren’t sending a boy to do a man’s work, you are sending a toddler.

I guess you don't understand. My power outages are fairly infrequent and usually no longer than a few days. If I wanted to run anything 240v it would be my A/C, and for that I would need a significant sized generator and lots of gas...which is a PITA to store and not always availalble after a hurricane. What I do need is to run two refrigators, some lights which are all led, a few ceiling fans, and our tv. And 3,500 watts is more than enough. And I don't have to worry about trying to balance two different legs but rather just overall power consumption. And when I want to turn on a light it will work anywhere in the house. And I don't want to get up during the night to feed gas into a generator. When you stop and think about my requirement...it makes sense.

 

[mike93lx]

I guess you don't understand. My power outages are fairly infrequent and usually no longer than a few days. If I wanted to run anything 240v it would be my A/C, and for that I would need a significant sized generator and lots of gas...which is a PITA to store and not always availalble after a hurricane. What I do need is to run two refrigators, some lights which are all led, a few ceiling fans, and our tv. And 3,500 watts is more than enough. And I don't have to worry about trying to balance two different legs but rather just overall power consumption. And when I want to turn on a light it will work anywhere in the house. And I don't want to get up during the night to feed gas into a generator. When you stop and think about my requirement...it makes sense.

A 120v generator makes perfect sense for a simplex inexpensive backup. I did exactly this at my wife's grandparents. Just the stuff they need to stay safe in an outage, with a generator that they could handle and at a price point that made sense for them.

Even with a bigger 240v generator at my house, there are no 240v loads that I really need to be able to run in a temporary outage

 

[ipgenie]

Why send a 'man' to do a 'toddlers' job if all it accomplishes is to waste fuel at a higher upfront cost. Running a few circuits in an emergency a couple times a year is an excellent use for a 'toddler' generator that can also be used for camping, tailgating, light construction and other remote activities.

If you need enough power to run the well, electric range, electric dryer, AC, microwave and everything else, that's a job for a big generator and for many its also the right answer, especially if you don't participate in activities where a portable generator is useful and you deal with frequent extended outages.

 

[Spacecoastz]

My new generator is a 4250/3500 120v inverter. Going with a bigger 120/240v inverter would have been impracticable. My old generator that I still have is a standard generator rated for 4000/3250. It never had a bit of trouble running both refigrators, fans, tv, small microwave, and some lights, but it only has a single 120v duplex outlet. I would plug it into my secondary house wire system, which has two plug inputs, and feeds some secondary outlets inside the house and garage. Basically built in extension cords. The biggest problem was 1) lack of inside house lighting unless I ran extensions cords and set-up lamps, 2) dirty power which ruined the brains of my new refrigerator and prevented me from using the computer, and 3) the lack of run time since it has a small gas tank. I have no hard needs for 240v....except for maybe A/C...but I could get a small 120v window unit and cool the bedroom.

 

[dcg9381]

So I have a circuit that's 3-wire, 120V and the electrician put it on a dual pole 20A breaker. Seems like this circuit would be "problematic"?
Normally, as the hots are normally out of phase, it's not possible to overload the neutral. But as soon as the hots are in phase, it'd be possible to overload the shared neutral wire, correct?

(Note, this is an odd configuration, perhaps)

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So I have a circuit that's 3-wire, 120V and the electrician put it on a dual pole 20A breaker. Seems like this circuit would be "problematic"?
Normally, as the hots are normally out of phase, it's not possible to overload the neutral. But as soon as the hots are in phase, it'd be possible to overload the shared neutral wire, correct?

(Note, this is an odd configuration, perhaps)

umm 3-wire 120v would be hot neutral ground. did you mean 120/240v MWBC? that would be 4-wire not 3-wire

If you meant the latter, then the answer to your question is yes, it would be possible to overload the neutral

 

[dcg9381]

umm 3-wire 120v would be hot neutral ground. did you mean 120/240v MWBC? that would be 4-wire not 3-wire

If you meant the latter, then the answer to your question is yes, it would be possible to overload the neutral

Yes, the latter, there's a 4 wires total (bare copper). I always confuse when you include the ground in the wire count.

I'd think that as this type of circuit is "legal" in the 240V case and as it's possible to overload the neutral when configuring both sides of the panel with in-phase 120V that doing so would be a no-no... But I've got no cite on that.

And again, this type of circuit would probably be unusual for residential, so probably not a common case.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Read the data plate on your genny, they do not produce 110 or 220V.....

110 and 220 are voltages of the past.
120 and 240 have been the voltages since the 1930s after the REA (Rural Electrification Act) during the Great Depression went to bring electricity to farms and rural areas.

 

[nadogail]

110 and 220 are voltages of the past.
120 and 240 have been the voltages since the 1930s after the REA (Rural Electrification Act) during the Great Depression went to bring electricity to farms and rural areas.

For many of us; old habits and terms die hard.