Running CAT5 cable underground to detached garage.

[ripperd]

There are copper surge arresters and isolators available for this type of situation

In addition to that, ethernet is galvanically isolated. So unless you are seeing large (lighening scale) potential differences, it won't care about a couple volts here and there.

At that distance, I would run 2 burial rated cat5e or cat6, and 2 coax, probably all through a pvc sleeve so you can pull something new later. Very inexpensive to do in the grand scheme of things.

Fiber definitely has its place in building to building links, but it would be overkill for this situation. KISS.

 

[seedtime]

A lot of good information here, thanks. I will probably run a separate electrical conduit for my media just to be safe. I will do it once the electrical inspector leaves and before I fill in the trench. That might be easier said than done since the ground is starting to freeze. The trench might be open until spring if the temps keep dropping.

I will cap both ends of the conduit about 6” above grade. In the meantime I will be testing out some WiFi extenders and researching how to use a secondary router in the shop as a WiFi emitter. At least I will have two viable options for bringing the internet to my new shop/cave.


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[jeepxj]

Because devices like iPad or phones don’t work hard wired !!!! Making wired connections almost obsolete !!!!
One mesh system covers all the building all the outside area all the devices with 100mbps.
I have one lap top with wired connection but it too is wireless and has NOT been wired in years.

So if you read all the posts .......Cat 5 to the shop still needs to connected to another wireless point to work with modern devices.

well duh. yea put an access point in the garage. put one in the house.

I have 3 AC pros covering my entire property. I have wifi from the mailbox to the back shed. one SSID with seamless hand over. I take VOIP calls all the time with it.

 

[Showkey]

well duh. yea put an access point in the garage. put one in the house.

I have 3 AC pros covering my entire property. I have wifi from the mailbox to the back shed. one SSID with seamless hand over. I take VOIP calls all the time with it.

My setup is exactly the same.
Do you know that’s basically a mesh router system but with no wire needed ?

My point is there are several ways to do this.........wires are no longer required. The mesh in my case covers over 2 acres three buildings and home with basement with 100mbps.
When you travel or when You print or listen to music or any other life function no one carries a cable to connect. I also choose not have land phone line or FAX the home and the buildings were wired for that too.......because it’s not needed.

 

[jeepxj]

backhaul is still handled by full gig. where mesh you're dropping off at least half thru put with a mesh system. For most its fine. If you cord cut and have 5 TVs in the house with 10 other wifi devices then not so much.

My core home switch is a 3750 with 48 patches going to it. I think I'm ok on the home networking speeches here.

 

[b-boy]

My setup is exactly the same.
Do you know that’s basically a mesh router system but with no wire needed ?

My point is there are several ways to do this.........wires are no longer required. The mesh in my case covers over 2 acres three buildings and home with basement with 100mbps.
When you travel or when You print or listen to music or any other life function no one carries a cable to connect. I also choose not have land phone line or FAX the home and the buildings were wired for that too.......because it’s not needed.

What did that mesh setup cost you? My guess is a lot more than running a cable between 2 buildings. Those systems get very expensive very quickly.

Based soley on my personal experience with mesh systems, I want a hard-wired connection between buildings. I had limited success with them.

 

[Jazzman442]

Note that strictly speaking you should use Cat 5 cable that's rated for underground use.



I suspect lightning is not as much of a problem in Michigan as it is in Florida. The two buildings are just a few feet apart, I'd just go with the Cat 5 and be done with it. Fiber may be reasonably priced, but then you also need fiber converters at each end and they don't give those away for free.

The converters are really cheap as well now. If it just a few feet away I would just use wireless. There is a thread on this forum of some one with a farm using it all over his entire property. No that is really cheap.

I am thinking buy the time you buy the conduit, cable and all of the fittings wireless might be the answer.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I ran standard cat5e 120 feet to my shop through conduit and use a wireless router in the shop as an extension of the network. With that I can use hard wire Ethernet or wireless for devices at the shop or rear yard area. If the cable fails, there is an extra in the conduit, and there is a 1,000 foot roll on standby that someone gave me.

 

[yamaha0343]

...In the meantime I will be testing out some WiFi extenders and researching how to use a secondary router in the shop as a WiFi emitter. At least I will have two viable options for bringing the internet to my new shop/cave.


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Check out the Ubiquiti LAP-120. I’ve installed a few of these in the maritime industry between boats and barges and they work very well. Typically get 300-350MBPS between them. Range is up to a few miles.

Edit: Seeing how close the buildings are, I’d just go with a mesh system in your home and put a repeater in there. I’d recommend Amplifi.

 

[Max]

I'd go with wired myself. It's cheap and easy to put an Ubiquiti access point on the end if the cable. Much cheaper than adding another mesh router, and as jeepxj notes you are not consuming backhaul bandwidth with the mesh.

Max

It's the engineer in me that wants a list:

Mesh
Pros:
- Easier to setup if you use a prepackaged solution.
- Can get good coverage.
- No worries about installing or repairing underground cables.
Cons:
- Higher cost.
- Lower aggregate bandwidth as the backhaul link uses 1-2X the bandwidth depending on the number of hops. If it's just one user no big deal, but if you have more WiFi devices and users then it can get to be an issue.
- More complex software for the mesh, and a higher likelihood of hitting a corner case where the mesh works poorly.

Wired
Pros:
- Cheaper, but not hugely so.
- Faster, assuming 1 GbE. Wireless speeds drop off rapidly with both distance and obstructions. Do not believe the box speeds.
- More reliable - both in communication speed as well as HW.
- Use an access point, or configure your router to be one, and it looks like a nice flat network just like the mesh.
Cons:
- You have to put in the wires and conduit.
- You need to maintain the wires.
- Some added risk to lightning but I think it's minimal.

 

[seedtime]

Max, as a fellow engineer I would have to say that there is only one thing better than a list, and that’s a chart.... thanks.


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[checkthisout]

What others said. Drop in conduit and worry about it later.

When you're done you can take your house router and put it in the garage as an AP then get a nice new router for the house.

Easy peasy.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

My setup is exactly the same.
Do you know that’s basically a mesh router system but with no wire needed ?

My point is there are several ways to do this.........wires are no longer required. The mesh in my case covers over 2 acres three buildings and home with basement with 100mbps.
When you travel or when You print or listen to music or any other life function no one carries a cable to connect. I also choose not have land phone line or FAX the home and the buildings were wired for that too.......because it’s not needed.

not exactly. a mesh system uses software controllers to control access and handoffs etc.

also mesh uses wireless uplinks with one or more hops with only a couple units using a hardwired uplink.

A wireless AP or wireless router connected via wired connection is NOT a mesh system

 

[PWC Repair]

I literally did this just today! Ran a 11/4" for tha main service and a 3/4" for cat6 and phone/security. The funnest part was spending 4 hours yesterday digging with a garden trowel and a piece of rebar under the foundation right next to my water line.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I live in Florida. I also am a Electrical Engineer for a large electronics company. Nothing stops Lighting. It is really cheap for Fiber and as long as no one cuts it fiber will last forever.I like doing things once the right way. You can run a ton of data that way. Good Luck

+1. put in conduit and buy a long fiber patch cord and a set of media converters. they're dirt cheap:
30m (90ish feet) 10G capable patch cord $35: https://fibertronics.com/lc-to-lc-m...bcrdho_dfnkh96heum1e8m1avxalvvdxocdyqqavd_bwe

pair of media converters $35ea:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...-hOhWFssiQG4ocw4AABoC6LcQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

pair of SFPs $45ea:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...=1&cm_re=multimode_SFP-_-33-114-189-_-Product


you can do better on pricing if you try.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I literally did this just today! Ran a 11/4" for tha main service and a 3/4" for cat6 and phone/security. The funnest part was spending 4 hours yesterday digging with a garden trowel and a piece of rebar under the foundation right next to my water line.

Are you also going to run water out that way?

 

[seedtime]

Are you also going to run water out that way?

Not planning on adding water, since my house is so close, and I set up an outside sink during the summer months.

One thing I really like about GJ is that members are always suggesting things I would have never thought of. Thus, my projects end up much better for it.


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[Max]

OK, this is all on seedtime.

A few notes on the chart:
- Outside is always better for each axis.
- The numbers are my own somewhat informed opinions. I did work for a *com company for three years doing software for WiFi chips, but I don't claim to be a great WiFi expert.
- Your numbers may be a lot different from mine for good reasons. For example, you might be putting your wires in rock and you'll have to blast for the conduit. Alternately you could be like the OP and already have an open trench with a short distance to run.
- Cost is another area where YMMV, and I've just tried to get the general flavor.

Max

 

[PWC Repair]

Are you also going to run water out that way?

I did, just out of that pic is my wellhouse. You can see the other trench going right.

To the original poster, it's not hard to do, drop in extra conduit as many have stated. I used a kite string on a spool and the shop vac to pull my data and phone through. The main power we actually just pushed through from inside the shop, went just fine with no lube.

 

[Sureshot]

I was also going to suggest water and extra of everything. When I buried mine I also ran a small airline(semi truck airline) so I would have an air source at the house. A portable tank can act as your reservoir if you need it for nailers etc. I had my own water and septic systems and found it incredibly useful there on top of the filling tires and carpentry in the attached garage. I would also sleeve the lines where they come out of the ground so the frost doesn't ruin them. It is easy to do now and cheap even if you never use them.

 

[Stea1thNinja]

OK, this is all on seedtime.

A few notes on the chart:
- Outside is always better for each axis.
- The numbers are my own somewhat informed opinions. I did work for a *com company for three years doing software for WiFi chips, but I don't claim to be a great WiFi expert.
- Your numbers may be a lot different from mine for good reasons. For example, you might be putting your wires in rock and you'll have to blast for the conduit. Alternately you could be like the OP and already have an open trench with a short distance to run.
- Cost is another area where YMMV, and I've just tried to get the general flavor.

Max

This is super cool. Curious about what went into your maintenance rating as I would have expected wired to win that category.

 

[Max]

Sure. For maintenance on the mesh side all you've got is software updates. For the wired side you've still got SW updates for the AP, plus over time _maybe_ some maintenance on the wires. My last house had just under 2K feet of cat5e used for either the network or alarm, and I never had a wire or connection go bad in 20 years. However I have seen wires go bad (generally at the jack) in a work environment, so I had to lower wired a bit.

Max

 

[seedtime]

I decided to drop in another 1” conduit alongside the main power. As many others have suggested, now I have options for whatever I decide upon for the future. My electrician ran the first conduit and left me enough materials to run the second conduit for my ‘low’ voltage needs.
The good thing about using a reputable Electrical Contractor is how the county trusts them. As soon as the contractor left, I was able to start backfilling. This is the third underground line I had installed and every time the Inspector declined to come out. I took lots of scaled pictures as proof Justin case.

I am so glad I got this phase completed before the ground froze solid. Is it only me or does anyone else like the look of a nicely dug trench? I was hoping for some compliments on the crispy edges.


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[OccupantRJ]

My, your trench had nice crispy edges!

 

[Negen]

Don't forget your conduit tags to label both pipes.

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