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Running ENT to old work drywall boxes

Farmallboy15

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Jan 31, 2018
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71
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Ohio
I'm wanting to run ENT through out my house for CAT6. The shop will be connected, so kind of garage related.:)

I would prefer not to bust a bunch of drywall to get to a stud and mount a nail on low voltage box with a knockout to hookup the tube. Does anyone know of any old work boxes/rings with a knockout to mount up the tube? Any suggestions are appreciated!

Link to tube: https://www.lowes.com/pd/CARLON-Common-3-4-in-Actual-0-75-in-Non-Metal-Flex-25-ft-Conduit/1000341007

Link to box with knockout: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-2-Gang-Low-Voltage-Bracket-SC200AR/202250841

Link to plain old work box:https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-2-Gang-Low-Voltage-Mounting-Bracket-Case-of-6-SC200RR/205349978
 
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Norcal

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Be aware that ENT can be a ***** to fish wire through, I would rather use EMT or Romex.
 

kaffine

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Specracer

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Nov 12, 2016
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Why pipe of any kind? Cat 6 is "low voltage" will have a "CL" rated jacket certified to be in the wall? Does Ohio require LV in pipe?
 

anythingyoucanimagine

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Feb 6, 2019
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Farmallboy15, what you linked (https://www.lowes.com/pd/CARLON-Com...H0iV&cjevent=9a78a25b312511e98068016a0a24060d) is smurf tube. Yes that's what you want. You do not want ENT conduit.


I don't know of any old work boxes (with the tabs and no nails) that attach to either conduit (EMT/ENT) or smurf tubes. (for residential stuff)


Just be careful, you are going down a slippery slope... When I met my wife I told her that if I had it my way I would systematically demo and gut one room at a time in her house: gut to studs, rewire, insulate, new drywall, paint, trim, fixtures, etc. She didn't want anything to do with that so I started cutting random holes in walls, etc. In hindsight I was right and living in a torn apart house was hard. (on both of us)


What do you have in your walls currently? As others have said, pulling through proper ENT (conduit) can be a *****. Use lube and go oversize. Smurf tubes are easy --but why not just fish the wire down the wall? You don't want to be in same cavity as other electrical. I believe the nec says low voltage wants to be 2-3" away from 120/240V and try to cross perpendicular when possible. I used to have a low voltage license and did a lot of new office telco/data wiring. Best practice is to stay 6" or more away from 120/240V power and ALWAYS cross at 90 degrees, no long parallel runs (25 feet or more) unless you are 12" away. Most of what I did was finance and trading related. We used to split out PoE runs from non-PoE data runs... but that's getting a little crazy...


After having done two houses (currently on my 3rd whole-home rewire, all to nec 2017), in hindsight --wire is cheap. Don't cut corners. With data always run two drops everywhere, even if you don't need/use (or have room for) both right now, the second drop is always good to have.


Also, not sure how big your home is but you do know that even 5e can do 10GbE over short runs right?? A spool of 5e is stupid cheap and PLENTY fast for anything you could do in a home. I did my house in 6 so I don't blame you for not wanting 5e... I also have two 25U racks and partial 10GbE network at home.


Couple other suggestions: Spend some time looking into the different types of category 5e/6/6a (and 7) wires. Some are fire rated higher (for plenums) and some are not.


Buy two different color spools of wire and two different color keystone jacks. This way when you get your runs done you don't need to be guessing which end goes to which wire.


Don't **** around with 6a. It's a pain in the ***. If you need 6a (for speed) just run glass. If you need 6a for power --run glass into a PoE switch locally. It's much easier. 6a is a pain in the ***. (in my opinion)


Make sure you have the right kind of cable (solid core for long runs) and don't buy the ****** stuff from China. Make sure you have true/proper 24 wire gauge cable. You can do a lot with it --in some cases you can (legally, nec compliant) double up (twist each pair together) so you can run LV power through it.


If you end up going with smurf tubes and new work boxes, buy the big-*** (5-gal bucket) of pull string. The stuff I use is blue. Don't buy the ****** little cans of orange pull string you can get at the big-box stores. I think Lowes sells the good pull string at some stores and usually electrical supply houses will sell pull string without a license or an account. If you do your runs properly, you should be able to stick a shop vac to one end of the smurf tube and it'll **** the pull string right through your whole run. You want the good pull string in the big buckets because the small containers jam up and you can't **** it through a run with a vacuum.


We use low voltage boxes (with no back) so there is technically no enclosure (or the stud cavity is the enclosure). This means we don't have to worry (as much) about box fill and wire counts. It also lets us do things like shove an extra couple feet of wire in the wall for when some idiot in the office trips over a cable and mangles a keystone jack. LV boxes also have lots of places to easily tie off your pull string. If you can, leave your pull string in the smurf tubes (or just generally leave pull string in the stud cavity) so next time it'll be easy. If you don't leave pull string --you'll wish it was there. If you are OCD/obsessive/**** with doubling up cable and leaving pull string --you'll probably never need it.


Last thoughts: get good pliers, crimpers, punch down tool (with good cradle), etc. and don't **** around with trying to terminate flex (stranded) cables. Put everything in (female) keystones and buy the male rj45 cables pre-made online. They are stupid cheap, will come certified, etc. Also remember, solid is solid for a reason. There is a reason why all of our (pigtails, extension cords, appliance cords, etc.) are stranded wire. Copper work hardens so the more you bend it the more it gets brittle and wants to break. With data, running solid for patch cables is a bad idea because as the copper work hardens you can get interference (or resistance), especially if you are doing PoE stuff.


Good luck, happy to answer any questions!
 
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anythingyoucanimagine

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Feb 6, 2019
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423
Location
New England
If you look further down the page the "smurf tube" is Electric Non-metallic Tubing

Sorry. I'm not an electrician. I never paid attention. I knew it as "conduit" or smurf tubes. Plastic conduit outside, metal conduit inside, smurf tubes for data/low voltage. Obviously my prior assumptions/knowledge is not accurate. Sorry.
 
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Farmallboy15

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Jan 31, 2018
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71
Location
Ohio
Yes, I could just pull the Cat5e / Cat6 but would like to future proof to some extent, hence the reason for ENT or smurf tube. I will probably run PVC conduit for the longer runs: Outside of house to distribution point/ethernet switch and to the outside of the house where it goes to the shop (through 1 1/4" PVC Conduit which already has a pull string).

My thought is to stick one of these in a central closet with the modem and a switch: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001BAWJRU/?tag=atomicindus08-20 and run Smurf tube/ ENT to the rooms of the house (living rooms and bedrooms) with two data cables and a extra pull string. At which point I would terminate into a old work outlet box with a drilled hole like the below picture.

Overall image: We are not currently living in the house. Drywall is patched but not mudded from correcting past wiring issues. This fall they ran fiber down the road so that is now available. For TV's they run data cable to a set top box.

Any issues with this plan besides ENT being fairly difficult to pull through and more work initially to lay? Thanks!
 

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number9

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Aug 31, 2006
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220
I'm at this exact stage in my build and researching the same things. I will be running some type of flexible tube in the walls from attic or basement to the LV box in each room where I want a PC, TV, etc so in the future I can pull additional or different wire to that spot if needed.

So far I'm just thinking of running Cat5e/6, coax and HDMI.
 

number9

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Aug 31, 2006
Messages
220
Farmallboy you got any update in your search?

I went to lowes and looked all over the store for tubing ideas. My Lowes only carries ENT in 3/4" and 1/2" dia. I need some larger for running HDMI cable through. Same sizes for non-metalic liquid tight (seal tight is what I've always heard it called). Liquid tight is about $1/ft in 3/4" dia. In my case, we are going to spray foam the exterior walls, so it's either use some type of tubing or run bare cables in the wall - forever.

You said sheetrock was up - is it on both sides?
 
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Farmallboy15

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Jan 31, 2018
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71
Location
Ohio
Well number9, I decided against smurf tube for my case. When I went to lowes I realized the ENT was over $1 a foot in 25ft rolls and I had a few hundred feet to run; it wasn't worth it to me.

I just bought some low voltage old-work boxes and popped them in the drywall and ran two drops of cat6 to each one. I am about 2/3rds of the way done. The drops going to the basement and the one going to the outside of the house for fiber hookup I ran in 3/4" PVC Conduit. (4) Cat6 cables pulled through super easy without lube.

In your case I would definitely want some kind of conduit. I would also use a solid box vs an open low voltage box or the foam will completely fill it...
 

number9

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Aug 31, 2006
Messages
220
Good to hear 4 Cat6 went thru 3/4" pvc easy, I was wondering about the fill / drag issue.

I'd planned to use solid boxes and probably tape any holes in them to keep the foam out - that would **** lol.
 

pentavolvo

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Sep 6, 2010
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584
Location
Indiana
Farmallboy you got any update in your search?

I went to lowes and looked all over the store for tubing ideas. My Lowes only carries ENT in 3/4" and 1/2" dia. I need some larger for running HDMI cable through. Same sizes for non-metalic liquid tight (seal tight is what I've always heard it called). Liquid tight is about $1/ft in 3/4" dia. In my case, we are going to spray foam the exterior walls, so it's either use some type of tubing or run bare cables in the wall - forever.

You said sheetrock was up - is it on both sides?


When we ran stuff for tv in an insulated wall I ran PVC i think 1.25” was kinda a pain but will have plenty of room for future and super easy to fish the hdmi through
 
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