Running potlights from existing electrical outlet

[younghandyman]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum here. I'm going to be starting a big project in the summer time of wiring up potlights outside of my parents house.

Currently, there is an outlet on porch ceiling for outside decorative lights to be plugged in to as well as a switch that turns this 120V outlet on and off by the front door.

My plan was to open up the outlet, and tap into the positive, neutral and ground from this outlet to use as my wires for the potlights, run these wires all around the gutters on the front side of the house and then put potlights in.

I have a few questions about this plan:
1) I have to double check, but currently, I think just the outlet (mentioned above) and maybe one or two more lights are on this breaker - if I wire about 30-40 more lights on this, will it cause the breaker to constantly pop open even if I get low current lights? I don't know if the current break is 5A or 10A.
2) I would call an electrician to do this part, but if I do need to get the breaker switched out to a larger one, will I also need to get the electrician to run thicker wires (from the breaker to the switch/outlet) to hold the larger current if necessary OR do builders oversize the wires so that they can handle extra current if necessary? I live in the Toronto, Canada area and the house is brand new.
3) I plan on running the wires in the soffits, do I need to add an extra layer of insulation to the wires there?
4) For the portion of wire that will be outside the soffit (running from the lower level gutter to the upper level gutter) I plan on putting a plastic shielding around the wire to keep the water out as an extra layer of insulation on top of existing insulation on every wire
5) Given the length of soffit I plan on running wires through, I will have to join two rolls of wire on the ends - do I need to solder these together or can I just tie them together and use wire caps to hold them together?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum here. I'm going to be starting a big project in the summer time of wiring up potlights outside of my parents house.

Currently, there is an outlet on porch ceiling for outside decorative lights to be plugged in to as well as a switch that turns this 120V outlet on and off by the front door.

My plan was to open up the outlet, and tap into the positive, neutral and ground from this outlet to use as my wires for the potlights, run these wires all around the gutters on the front side of the house and then put potlights in.

I have a few questions about this plan:
1) I have to double check, but currently, I think just the outlet (mentioned above) and maybe one or two more lights are on this breaker - if I wire about 30-40 more lights on this, will it cause the breaker to constantly pop open even if I get low current lights? I don't know if the current break is 5A or 10A.
2) I would call an electrician to do this part, but if I do need to get the breaker switched out to a larger one, will I also need to get the electrician to run thicker wires (from the breaker to the switch/outlet) to hold the larger current if necessary OR do builders oversize the wires so that they can handle extra current if necessary? I live in the Toronto, Canada area and the house is brand new.
3) I plan on running the wires in the soffits, do I need to add an extra layer of insulation to the wires there?
4) For the portion of wire that will be outside the soffit (running from the lower level gutter to the upper level gutter) I plan on putting a plastic shielding around the wire to keep the water out as an extra layer of insulation on top of existing insulation on every wire
5) Given the length of soffit I plan on running wires through, I will have to join two rolls of wire on the ends - do I need to solder these together or can I just tie them together and use wire caps to hold them together?

Im in the US so anything i post is only applicable to US NEC code. But CEC is similar in many regards.

1)30-40 lights? yikes Are these LED lights? If not you may have an issue with current draw. The NEC permits continuous loads such as lighting, to be no more than 80% of the circuit capacity.

2) the only situation where you could switch out the breaker to a larger one would be IF the wire is #12 and the breaker is 15a. You will NOT be able to go larger than 20a due to the general use outlet. SO you may need to pull new wire for a new circuit.

3) Not sure what you mean by extra insulation. The wire you would use SHOULD be insulated.

4) If the wire will be used in wet locations it is required to be rated for wet locations. Putting a dry location rated wire in conduit or "adding insulation" doesnt change its rating. Since this wire will need to be rated for wet locations, you will need to use either individual conductors in conduit or UF type jacketed wire.

5) Nobody solders wires these days. You would use wire nuts and make splices in a junction box. Just how long are these wire runs gonna be?

Quite frankly, with some of the things you have said, I would hire an electrician.

 

[oldwino]

You can now grow Pot outdoors in many states. No need for “pot lights”

 

[ard]

What are these "pot lights" you are installing??? Picture would help

 

[younghandyman]

Im in the US so anything i post is only applicable to US NEC code. But CEC is similar in many regards.

1)30-40 lights? yikes Are these LED lights? If not you may have an issue with current draw. The NEC permits continuous loads such as lighting, to be no more than 80% of the circuit capacity.

2) the only situation where you could switch out the breaker to a larger one would be IF the wire is #12 and the breaker is 15a. You will NOT be able to go larger than 20a due to the general use outlet. SO you may need to pull new wire for a new circuit.

3) Not sure what you mean by extra insulation. The wire you would use SHOULD be insulated.

4) If the wire will be used in wet locations it is required to be rated for wet locations. Putting a dry location rated wire in conduit or "adding insulation" doesnt change its rating. Since this wire will need to be rated for wet locations, you will need to use either individual conductors in conduit or UF type jacketed wire.

5) Nobody solders wires these days. You would use wire nuts and make splices in a junction box. Just how long are these wire runs gonna be?

Quite frankly, with some of the things you have said, I would hire an electrician.

I was asking dumb questions to cover my bases to make sure I had all the information from the ground up. I have run extra outlets in my basement before so I know how to do the wiring from outlets to light switches, to outlets, to lights, how to use a multimeter, and all the other basics on how to do wiring/electrical work.

Thank you for your answer above. Your answer has convinced me to get an electrician to run an extra wire from the breaker box to a switch where I can begin to wire the lights (who I can also ask my questions to). I have a friend who did the same thing after getting an electrician to run the wire from the breaker up.

Funny thing is I believe as I was walking my dog I walked past a contractor installing pot lights for a neighbor and noticed he was just tapping in to the outlet on the porch (thats what it seemed like from the outside).

The wires are going to run around the soffits on the first level and on the top level, the house is a 50 foot lot so probably around 110ft of wiring in total for all the lights.

 

[Norcal]

What are these "pot lights" you are installing??? Picture would help

Consult a Canukistani to English dictionary for the definition of "Pot light(s)".

 

[younghandyman]

I went to home depot today to find out about this.

If I wire the soffit lighting in parallel as normal, but instead of wiring the starting of the wires directly into the hot, neutral and ground coming from the breaker, wire it to a three prong plug and plug that into a receptacle. As long as that it is under 80% of the breaker. Apacity, is this within code?

 

[JackAndy]

That wouldn't be code for US. As far as I know, any connection where you use wire nuts or solder has to be in a box. You can't just wire nut together a string of lights and plug it into a socket. Even if each of your "potlights" had a plug on it, I don't think you can stick electrical cords in the wall or soffit and have it be code.

You can get J-Box disk lights on ebay. They come with push on fittings so they're easy to wire and they attach directly to a junction box. They aren't a recessed light but they are flush mount. I have like 23 of them in my garage and they were something like $7 each.

As far as running wire outside the building, you would need conduit for that. You can get it in PVC.

As far as the length of the wires go and the load, I don't think this would be a huge issue. My 23 LED lights draw like 280 watts total. They don't use a lot of power so having them on a regular 20 amp circuit is fine. Of course it wouldn't be just one long piece of romex, its a separate connection in each junction box so the longest run of romex would just be from one light to the next.

If all of this sounds like a bit much, they have solar LED lights you can get off ebay. I got 4 for $25 and they're essentially like a thin panel. I screwed them to the rain gutters. There's just 2 tiny self tapping screws that I put in near the very top lip of the rain gutter. Each light is like a flat panel with the solar panel on top and the light panel on the bottom. They're super light and yet bright. They only come on when there's motion so the house is dark otherwise. Honestly I don't want to waste electricity illuminating the outside of my house unnecessarily so I use PIR lights for that sort of thing.

 

[younghandyman]

That wouldn't be code for US. As far as I know, any connection where you use wire nuts or solder has to be in a box. You can't just wire nut together a string of lights and plug it into a socket. Even if each of your "potlights" had a plug on it, I don't think you can stick electrical cords in the wall or soffit and have it be code.

You can get J-Box disk lights on ebay. They come with push on fittings so they're easy to wire and they attach directly to a junction box. They aren't a recessed light but they are flush mount. I have like 23 of them in my garage and they were something like $7 each.

As far as running wire outside the building, you would need conduit for that. You can get it in PVC.

As far as the length of the wires go and the load, I don't think this would be a huge issue. My 23 LED lights draw like 280 watts total. They don't use a lot of power so having them on a regular 20 amp circuit is fine. Of course it wouldn't be just one long piece of romex, its a separate connection in each junction box so the longest run of romex would just be from one light to the next.

If all of this sounds like a bit much, they have solar LED lights you can get off ebay. I got 4 for $25 and they're essentially like a thin panel. I screwed them to the rain gutters. There's just 2 tiny self tapping screws that I put in near the very top lip of the rain gutter. Each light is like a flat panel with the solar panel on top and the light panel on the bottom. They're super light and yet bright. They only come on when there's motion so the house is dark otherwise. Honestly I don't want to waste electricity illuminating the outside of my house unnecessarily so I use PIR lights for that sort of thing.

I followed everything you said, thanks for the thorough reponse.i am going to consult an electrician just to make sure what I am doing is up to code, just worried that he/she is going to try and scare my parents into going with an electrician when I know its not a complex wiring job, only timely. I've run lights before, I've run outlets so I'm confident I cam do this, just need to make aure it's up to code.

 

[AffableCurmudgeon]

I hope it ends well.

 

[cybrdyke]

I went to home depot today to find out about this.

If I wire the soffit lighting in parallel as normal, but instead of wiring the starting of the wires directly into the hot, neutral and ground coming from the breaker, wire it to a three prong plug and plug that into a receptacle. As long as that it is under 80% of the breaker. Apacity, is this within code?

I have never seen a permanently installed branch circuit inside a home that began with a plug. I suspect that there's a reason for this.
CD

 

[alfredeneuman]

There's a Code reason for this.
Cord may not be used as a substitute for fixed wiring (Plugs can only be used with cords)