running power to 125 amp subpanel,permit or no?

[fox3streetracer]

im running power out to my 30x50 garage,im going to be running 220 welder,electric 9k lb lift,60 gallon 220 compressor,possibly a 3 ton a/c and lights,fan.had two lic.contractors come out,and told me my 200 amp panel in the house could run a 125 amp sub panel in the garage.but they are both telling me I don't need a permit and am telling me if I want to get one I have to myself.if I let them do it without a permit,would I have a problem with insurance down the road?does this sound like enough of a sub panel?they actually both told me 100 amp would be enough.but I insisted on 125

 

[Mustang51js]

By me anytime you run any new electric your supposed to get a permit. Some towns actually go through everything when you sell and if they find something done without a permit they make you get one and bring it up to code. For example lady had finished off her basement some 20 plus years ago. In order to sell her house she had to add outlets on wall up to code and remove a small kitchen in the basement.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I suspect a permit is required, but rules vary depending on where you live so you'll have to check with your local government.

 

[info2x]

Well it depends on you... If you don't care what the legalities are do what you want. If you care go ask your town. Some places don't require permits for certain things. My town requires a permit for just about everything.

As far as insurance and things go I would talk to them. My thought is if the town requires a permit and I don't get one and that causes the problem then yes I'm screwed. If no permit was required though I should be OK.

I personally am wary of contractors who won't pull permits if they are indeed required.

That's my $.02

 

[aandpdan]

I personally am wary of contractors who won't pull permits if they are indeed required.

I look at it like this, why would an electrician NOT want to pull a permit? Are they properly licensed and insured? If their work is up to local requirements then it should be a no-brainer.

You'll pay for the permit, it isn't coming out of their pocket after all.

 

[37ford4dr]

If these are bonded and licensed electricians follow there guidance.

I have a 100 amp service and I am running everything you have....except no AC other then a window unit but i am running electric dayton heater. i cant imagine you will ever use all 100 amps at once. unless this is possibly a production shop with lots of people stick welding big steel pieces at once

I have 30 amp 240 circuit for the heater. 30 amp 240 for the compressor, 50 amp 240 for welders, three seperate 20 amp circuits for receptacles which are mounted on alternating studs, and several lighting circuits

each locality is unique on how, why and who can pull permits. if they are licensed electrcians who are bonded and have business licenses valid in your municipality. i dont see how any liability would fall on you.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

By me anytime you run any new electric your supposed to get a permit. Some towns actually go through everything when you sell and if they find something done without a permit they make you get one and bring it up to code. For example lady had finished off her basement some 20 plus years ago. In order to sell her house she had to add outlets on wall up to code and remove a small kitchen in the basement.

Ive seen this happen many times.

I would call your building department anonymously and ask if u need a permit.

I cant imagine u wouldnt need a permit.

And if it turns out u do, then inwould be questioning why 2 supposedly licensed ECs are saying u dont.

In reality u could probably do the work yourself.

And u would be hard pressed to max out 100a by yourself.

 

[theoldwizard1]

If the contractor does not pull the permit, what obligation does he have to repair something that is not correct ?

And u would be hard pressed to max out 100a by yourself.

I AGREE !

You can save a lot of money by only doing 90A because you can use aluminum MHF cable.

Check into mini-split A/C units. They are much more efficient than traditional A/C. You definitely will need 2 air handlers, one at each end of the building. If you are going to have an office/man cave, you will need 3.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If the contractor does not pull the permit, what obligation does he have to repair something that is not correct ?


I AGREE !

You can save a lot of money by only doing 90A because you can use aluminum MHF cable.

Check into mini-split A/C units. They are much more efficient than traditional A/C. Yo definitely will need 2 air handlers, one at each end of the building. If you are going to have an office/man cave, you will need 3.

Or if he goes with mini splits, he only needs 1 condensor that can run multiple(upto 4 IIRCC) evaporators....and no air handlers or ducts...

 

[acer66]

Not sure how it goes in FL but here in NC where I live you can as a homeowner take a test at the permit office which allows you to pull permits and do the electrical work on your house yourself, excluding meter and changing the main panel if I remember that correctly.

I have not done the test yet but a buddy of mine with no real knowledge of electrical work did it and passed it.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Or if he goes with mini splits, he only needs 1 condensor that can run multiple(upto 4 IIRCC) evaporators....and no air handlers or ducts...

I guess I should stop calling mini-split evaporators "air handlers" !

Some condenser have 5 ports !

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Not sure how it goes in FL but here in NC where I live you can as a homeowner take a test at the permit office which allows you to pull permits and do the electrical work on your house yourself, excluding meter and changing the main panel if I remember that correctly.

I have not done the test yet but a buddy of mine with no real knowledge of electrical work did it and passed it.

No tests required here in Cali. An owner builder can apply for and get permits.

 

[CNGsaves]

Couple years ago had same thing happen when getting 3 quotes for upgrading main panel in house and adding subpanel in detached garage. Electrical contractors (big ones . . licensed & bonded) were fine either way (ie permit or no permit). One quote had line item totals . . . $$$$ with permit . . . AND . . . $$$$ w/o permit. IIRC the difference was around $50 or $60 permit fee.

For OP it really depends on whether the permit process and inspectors are just there for revenue generation for city, or they perform valuable service to ensure proper safety and quality workmanship.

If OP's main panel is all up to code and current technology, then adding the subpanel may not that big a deal which is reflected by quotes from EC's. OP could probably do it all himself and his decision on permit, or no permit.

Some areas of country are real sticklers for permits/fees like some cities in CA, bureaucratic capital Orlando, FL . . . others ???

 

[Jlarson]

There are several jurisdictions I refuse to deal with because of crappy building department staff. Most of the counties here are at the top of this list.

 

[acer66]

No tests required here in Cali. An owner builder can apply for and get permits.

Oh, I thought they changed that a couple of years back but that might have just been LA county or my memory is off a bit.

 

[alfredeneuman]

The City of Ocala recognizes the 2010 Florida Building Code. Not requiring a permit for the work would be very unlikely.

I'd be suspicious of the 2 that told you that you don't need a permit.
Maybe they are really unlicensed, and can't pull the permits themselves.

 

[ard]

One other issue.

If you ever sell, the new buyers/agents will give you a 'disclosure form' to complete and sign.

It will ask if any work was done without a permit. If you lie, you are dead meat in a lawsuit over this or that. If you say 'yes', then you have a sale being held up for inspections, fixes, etc, etc. Potentially bend over and grab the ankles time while opposing realtor decides how much the lack of inspection is worth to make the issue go away.

Get the permit.

 

[sberry]

Some places permits are cheap and easy.

 

[hh76]

A lot of municipalities around here don't require permits. I've had to sign many wiring affidavits for utility companies because no inspections were available.

Check with your AHJ.

 

[ez-duzit]

You'd be crazy to do this without a permit.

And taking a 125-amp panel off your house's 200 amp service is unnecessary and not right, either.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You'd be crazy to do this without a permit.

And taking a 125-amp panel off your house's 200 amp service is unnecessary and not right, either.

according to what? Care to cite a code that backs that up?

 

[Norcal]

.....................................................................................................................................................................................................

And taking a 125-amp panel off your house's 200 amp service is unnecessary and not right, either.

[/b]

according to what? Care to cite a code that backs that up?

Page 3 of the Urban Legend Code.


The only limitation may be if the panel bus stab is not listed for a 125A breaker, there will be a large increase in price for 125A vs 100A though.

 

[checkthisout]

I don't know where you live or whatever but electrifying an outbuilding is a fairly large project and one that will stand out, especially in the future if you go to sell or your relatives need to sell it.

In my area at least, the permits don't cost enough to matter and it's nice looking at their inspection stickers on the outside or inside of the panel after your work is complete.

The electricians are saying you don't need a permit because it allows them to get in and out faster and under far less scrutiny than if you get one. I'm not a permit Nazi, but I have found that electricians that are critical of the permitting process generally **** at their work and are trying to get way with something.

If your state/county/electric company doesn't require a permit for this type of project then you live in state I want to move to....or if this doesn't fall under work that needs a permit, what exactly would? Do they require permits to change light bulbs but not add service to an outbuilding?

 

[sberry]

I havnt opened the book in a while so this is just a ramble of ? But, what are the exemptions for permit and inspections. I see a lot of clubs, organizations doing unpermitted and un inspected work by volunteers.
A service from an existing similar to the OP would need a permit. All the branches would require inspection and I think legally any work not in ones own home would require a license?

 

[Falcon67]

Here, yes - $50. In Abilene - yes, and you'd have to take a homeowner electrical test before they would issue the permit.

 

[rsnip988]

Here, yes - $50. In Abilene - yes, and you'd have to take a homeowner electrical test before they would issue the permit.

I'm in Burlington NC and I just paid my $50 for the electrical permit and was told to call when I was done to have it inspected... no testing or questions asked.
I've done electrical wiring before helping other people do projects, as long as everything is labeled and color coded correctly and your amperage calculations are correct you should be ok doing it yourself...
I'm not sure why it would matter if you can pass a test as long as they inspect it before you turn on the juice

 

[alfredeneuman]

Owner-Builder building permits are by law, required to be issued throughout the entire State of Florida.

http://www.flsenate.gov/laws/statutes/2011/489.103

 

[3 Gun Shooter]

I pulled a permit for my shop in California (it was a real business not hobby shop). The inspector inspected everything right before I buttoned everything up. He said it was the best job he had ever seen in years. If I had the slightest doubt I looked in up in the code book.

Here in Texas at my ranch no permits or inspections are required by the county. But where my house is, it is in the countty but the permit and inspection is done by the city that the line buts up to my property line.