Running wire for 100a sub panel in shop

[62stepside]

I have 1 4awg xhhw-2 aluminum cable then 2 2awg use-2 (type UL) aluminum cable and 1 4awg (can't read the lettering). Is this ok to run for my 100a panel?

Also
I'm running it from my main panel to under the house, through the garage (comes out of vent in garage(was a add on) up the wall and on top of the rafters then down the wall to outside, meeting with schedule 40 conduit underground out to the shop.

I understand pictures will help.. but it goes from the shop to under ground in conduit up the wall through the rafters down the wall and under the house coming up to main panel. Do I need to run all of this in conduit throughout? If I do what size conduit. I have 2" conduit underground at the moment. Just want to make sure before i buy all the conduit to run this.

Also am I allowed to run this kind of wire through the garage and under the house (with conduit).

Thank you and sorry for the long post

Here is the wire I'm working with. I have not feed my ground wire through yet.

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[62stepside]

There is no power hooked up to this wire yet. I'm posting to learn.

Here are pictures of the routing

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[Bert_]

That wire doesn't have to be in conduit underground but is MUST be in conduit in the building.

Also to be in the building it should have ratings other than USE

 

[62stepside]

So I can't use it in the building?

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[wyliesdiesels]

So I can't use it in the building?

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Not if it doesnt have an RHH/RHW rating.

And yes non bundled conductors must be in conduit indoors.

In answer to your other question, #2 al can feed a 100a subpanel but must be protected at 90a in the feeding panel.

That wire needs to be pulled, conduit added and a different wire needs to be used. It wouldve been better to ask question first.

Wire with a yellow stripe is typically single rated URD tjat is not permitted indoors.

 

[62stepside]

Ok if I'm going to pull them anyway what wire should I use for 100a if I start over? Say the same route?

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[75gmck25]

If 95 amps is okay, 2-2-2-4 AL MHF is a common solution. Just make sure you get the dual rated version that is rated for both direct burial (or conduit) and for use in conduit indoors.

You will need good sized conduit (1.25"-2.0"), and have to allow for the bend radius in your routing. It is packaged as four heavy conductors that spiral around each other, so it sometimes has a mind of its own when trying to turn a corner. Pulling, and making turns in an LB works much better with larger (2") conduit.

Bruce

 

[62stepside]

Would ser 2224 work? AL

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[alfredeneuman]

If 95 amps is okay, 2-2-2-4 AL MHF is a common solution. Bruce

1. There are no 95A breakers made.
2. #2 Al has a 90amp max ampacity @ 75 degrees C.

 

[pattenp]

Would ser 2224 work? AL

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SER is not allowed underground. You can use SER for the above ground portion and switch to individual conductors of XHHW in conduit using junction boxes. For 100A you need 1-1-1-3 Al SER and #1 for the 3 conductors and a #6 for the ground in individual wires of Al XHHW-2.

Edit: FYI the cable you posted a picture of is URD (Underground Residential Distribution). It has 2 black phase conductors and a yellow stripe neutral. It is only listed as USE-2 and is not allowed inside because the insulation is not fire resistant.

 

[62stepside]

SER is not allowed underground. You can use SER for the above ground portion and switch to individual conductors of XHHW in conduit using junction boxes. For 100A you need 1-1-1-3 Al SER and #1 for the 3 conductors and a #6 for the ground in individual wires of Al XHHW-2.

Edit: FYI the cable you posted a picture of is URD (Underground Residential Distribution). It has 2 black phase conductors and a yellow stripe neutral. It is only listed as USE-2 and is not allowed inside because the insulation is not fire resistant.

So could I put it in conduit? Running conduit the same route?

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[countrysquire]

You might also want to look at your city's code requirements before buying more wire. Mine will not allow you to run aluminum wire beyond the meter.

 

[62stepside]

Ok. I will definately check.

Could I install a 100a meter combo box and just run the wire on the outside of the house?

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[wyliesdiesels]

So could I put it in conduit? Running conduit the same route?

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SER is not permitted underground PERIOD. conduit does not change this restriction.

 

[dweihs]

Per NECA code, you also need a separate (4th) ground wire ran to sub panel. #6 bare copper would be just fine for that. Grnd/neutral tie bus needs removed from sub panel.

 

[dweihs]

Not sure from pic where your utility meter is, but might be a good idea to replace meter enclosure with a meter/main combo w/a branch breaker feeding shop. Clean setup. Still need 4th grd wire...

 

[alfredeneuman]

A big part of why SER is not for underground use is that the bare aluminum ground just dissolves over time because of of water, which always gets into underground conduit.

 

[Bert_]

The XHHW is the right wire. I would finish the conduit run so it is complete from one panel to the other. Then get a few more XHHW conductors to pull in the conduit.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Per NECA code, you also need a separate (4th) ground wire ran to sub panel. #6 bare copper would be just fine for that. Grnd/neutral tie bus needs removed from sub panel.

yup good eye though i think he knows this since he mentioned 2224

 

[62stepside]

Not sure from pic where your utility meter is, but might be a good idea to replace meter enclosure with a meter/main combo w/a branch breaker feeding shop. Clean setup. Still need 4th grd wire...

Yes, that's my next idea. I will have to post some pictures of current main box, it's right next to the washer and dryer, which isn't code NOW, but it was when the house was built, so I'm not sure if I swap out the main it will be grandfathered in.

Per NECA code, you also need a separate (4th) ground wire ran to sub panel. #6 bare copper would be just fine for that. Grnd/neutral tie bus needs removed from sub panel.

Yes, after we feed the wires through, I forgot the ground wire. I do realize I need one.

A big part of why SER is not for underground use is that the bare aluminum ground just dissolves over time because of of water, which always gets into underground conduit.

Thank you for the input. I will not use SER underground.

The XHHW is the right wire. I would finish the conduit run so it is complete from one panel to the other. Then get a few more XHHW conductors to pull in the conduit.

So, I can run XHHW conductors in both underground and above ground conduit.



Thank you all for the input. I will post pictures of my main box and meter location to see what I can do.

 

[pattenp]

XHHW can go underground, but does need to be in conduit.

 

[62stepside]

Here is my meter and box setup.



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[wyliesdiesels]

What the hell.

How tall is that deck?

 

[mm08822]

And at what hieght is the topmost cb in the main panel??

 

[62stepside]

The deck is probably 4 ft against the wall. I have a slope in my backyard.

And the panel is about 5 ft high

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[62stepside]

Acquired some of this. Might be overkill but run this through conduit all the way?

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[pattenp]

No, not if the conduit goes underground. SER not allowed underground. Read post #10.

 

[62stepside]

Thanks. And I'm certain I can't connect this ser and the current URD conductors couldn't be connected since they are 2 different sizes and ratings.

I thought a out doing the main / combo box but if I do that wouldn't I need to 'update' my wiring as in move the main box due to being not code 'anymore.' (Panel inside of house is near washing machine) I know some stuff is grandfathered in but not sure about that.



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[Bert_]

Connecting two different sizes is not an issue as long as the breaker is sized for the smaller wire.

 

[Bert_]

I thought a out doing the main / combo box but if I do that wouldn't I need to 'update' my wiring as in move the main box due to being not code 'anymore.' (Panel inside of house is near washing machine) I know some stuff is grandfathered in but not sure about that.



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Washing machine would only be an issue if it is in the working space required around the panel. Many locations would not make you update the panel if you are not changing the panel.

I can guarantee you that if you change the meter socket your utility company would make you move it since your deck is there.

 

[62stepside]

Connecting two different sizes is not an issue as long as the breaker is sized for the smaller wire.

So could I use the current urd cable in the conduit and then use the SER through the garage and the rest of the way under the house. Or should I 'JUST' use the ser in the garage portion?


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[62stepside]

Washing machine would only be an issue if it is in the working space required around the panel. Many locations would not make you update the panel if you are not changing the panel.



I can guarantee you that if you change the meter socket your utility company would make you move it since your deck is there.

Yeah that's what I'm afraid of. Not looking forward to a whole house re-wire.

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[mike93lx]

Moving a panel doesn't mean you have to rewire the whole house.

It may be worth bringing in an electrician on this to come up with a plan

 

[pattenp]

So could I use the current urd cable in the conduit and then use the SER through the garage and the rest of the way under the house. Or should I 'JUST' use the ser in the garage portion?


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You can use the SER anywhere but underground, so under the house if okay. The install requirements are the same as NM-b. The only difference is NM-b is not to be used in wet areas whereas SER can be in wet areas above ground.

 

[62stepside]

Ok thank you! Any suggestions on connectors from 2226 to 2/0 2/0 2/0 1?



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[pattenp]

Splicer Reducer

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Dual-Ra...lid-Barrier-Wire-Stop-ASR2506-B1-10/100190266

or
https://lugsdirect.com/P2-0-2-0-8-A...OdUoBFuJXOUm-sK2XAFFSAq-7H4u13jBoC2BUQAvD_BwE

 

[62stepside]

Thank you. I think I have everything.. breaker for the main at 100amps then (2/0) wire goes in there.

Then the 100amp breaker I'll use with the panel (2226 al).



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[mike93lx]

Thank you. I think I have everything.. breaker for the main at 100amps then (2/0) wire goes in there.

Then the 100amp breaker I'll use with the panel (2226 al).



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You can't use a 100a breaker at the main. You have to breaker it at the lowest rated wire in the circuit. #2 means that is 90a

 

[laser3kw]

My electrician said the max breaker size, in my 100 amp main panel, could only be 60 amp to feed my subpanel in the detached garage?

 

[pattenp]

62stepside you maybe confused on the wire sizes and breaker sizes. If the continuous feeder from the source panel to the garage panel is made up of #2/0 and #2 spliced together the source panel breaker feeding the wire to the garage is to be no larger than 90A because of the #2. The subpanel in the garage can have a 100A main breaker because it's a disconnect only and is not the primary breaker protecting the feeder.