Running wire to detached pole barn.

[3rdgendslmech]

So hopefully by the end of March or early April I'm going to start running electric to my detached pole barn.
Did some price searching and found that the local elec. warehouse supplier is a lot cheaper for the wire compared to the big box stores. However they couldn't touch the price for conduit or a 100 amp panel.
Had a work friend who's a licensed elec come by and just walk me through everything to make sure I'm doing it by code.
I plan on running 3 lengths of #2 and a #4 for ground. 2" schedule 40 18" deep, transition to schedule 80 coming out of the ground. 2 LB boxes where the wire will enter the house/barn. 100 amp panel with 90 amp breaker on the sub panel and main panel. 2 ground bars 6 feet apart with #6 ground wire. Isolated neutral bar on sub panel. Haven't really made up my mind if I'm going to run ground fault breakers or just GFCI receptacles.
Planning on running 2 extra 1" conduit lines one for cable and the other for extras.
The only questions I really have at this point are, where the LB boxes are on the outside of the house and barn, do they have to be schedule 80 also, or am I okay with what home depot/lowes sell? The electric supply store sells aluminum body LBs so if they have to be schedule 80 would I be better off with the aluminum LBs?
Also what is the height requirement for the sub panel. Is 6 feet from the floor to the top of the panel okay? It's going to be surface mounted since I'm planning on running EMT for the branch circuits once I finish that part of the plan.
Questions or comments and recommendations are welcome.

 

[Bert_]

There isn't any such thing as sch. 80 LB's and fittings.

If you want to use a metal LB, keep in mind you will have to use metal conduit between it and the panel at a minimum. This is because the metal LB would not be grounded if you connect PVC to each end of it.

The max height would be determined by the highest breaker handle, which cannot be higher than 6' 7"

 

[3rdgendslmech]

There isn't any such thing as sch. 80 LB's and fittings.

If you want to use a metal LB, keep in mind you will have to use metal conduit between it and the panel at a minimum. This is because the metal LB would not be grounded if you connect PVC to each end of it.

The max height would be determined by the highest breaker handle, which cannot be higher than 6' 7"

Thanks Bert, that's what I was thinking about the LBs because they arent labeled as sch 40 or 80, I know Lowes has a handfull of sch 80 bushings and connectors but thats it.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Make sure to put expansion joints between the ground and Lb' s.
I'd run the extra lines in 2" also,much easier to pull through.
As far as panel height I always set the top of them at 6' when ever possible.
Gfi outlets are cheaper than gfi breakers .

 

[3rdgendslmech]

Well, after I took the cover off my existing main panel....I dont think I've got room in this panel for 2" conduit. I've known about the 2 double tapped wires on the 15 amp breakers since I've lived here. There's a smaller neutral bar kinda below and next to the main one that uses saddle clamps that I could move a few things around and make some space.
My other concern is where I bring in the conduit....panel is mounted between 2 2x4s. The only knockout that might work, but would be very tight to get by lines from the meter. There's another knockout in the top right corner but I cant use that because behind that is the feed going to the meter.

Opt 1:So instead of trying to run 90 amp service, I could probably get by with running 60 amp service for the sake of smaller conduit.

Opt 2: Hope the meter is dual lug and run off of that down to the pole bar 100 ft away

0pt 3: Pay to have electrician come in and install new 200 amp panel

 

[Bert_]

That #2 will fit in 1 1/4" if that helps. 60A could be done with 1" or even 3/4 depending on if you went with copper or aluminum. Expect to need help when it comes time to pull it, but it's definitely possible.

That said I wouldn't really want to come out of that panel with more than a 60A feeder, it's small and already getting crowded. What does your meter look like?

 

[3rdgendslmech]

It's a smart meter if that helps any Bert. I could snap a picture tomorrow afternoon when I get home and its light out.

 

[Bert_]

I would be more concerned with the meter socket than the meter itself. Does the meter socket have a main breaker built into it?

I doubt yours has double lugs and some utilities require a disconnect close after the meter, either inside or outside. Other utilities don't care and then you only need a breaker once it enters a building as required by the NEC.

 

[3rdgendslmech]

On the outside of the meter box no. On the inside, I cant say, its a lock tag on it.

 

[Bert_]

On the outside of the meter box no. On the inside, I cant say, its a lock tag on it.

It would be in a second compartment, and the box would be about twice the size of a normal meter socket.

 

[3rdgendslmech]

Any of you guys ever transitioned from a smaller size conduit to a larger size? Is it code compliant?
What I'm getting at is the easiest knock out to run my conduit through will only take 1 1/4 conduit. I was thinking about using a box adapter 1 1/4 in the main panel ( flush mounted) and on the outside on the down side of the LB transition to 1 1/2 for an easier pull.. I'm either going with 2-2-2-4 MHF or individual xhhw.
Here are the two knock outs....the easiest is on the bottom of the panel and would probably mean an LB and an access cover *not ideal but easiest*
The second pic is the larger knock out I believe its for 1 1/2, but like I said it looks pretty busy the other picture of the bottom is def 1 1/4 because I was in lowes yesterday and bought a box adapter and it will fit.

 

[ard]

Id just punch it out to take a 1.5" ....

 

[Bert_]

Id just punch it out to take a 1.5" ....

I'm going to guess the Op does NOT have a knockout punch... Some careful work with a hole saw could work though.

 

[3rdgendslmech]

I dont have one......but....I do have a die grinder that I could open it up to 1 1/2. I could see if we've got a knockout punch over in the elec dept at work though....

 

[rburke65]

Well I think I’d be getting rid of that Zinsco breaker panel in favor of a Sq. D panel.

 

[Bert_]

Well I think I’d be getting rid of that Zinsco breaker panel in favor of a Sq. D panel.

Pretty sure that is a bryant.

It's still a cheap panel so whatever.

 

[3rdgendslmech]

Pretty sure that is a bryant.

It's still a cheap panel so whatever.

It's a Bryant panel. After the quote I got just to run power to my barn I dont even want to think about how much a panel replacement would cost.
All the 120V branch circuits are on tandem breakers. The panel is in the wall under a drop down in the ceiling that holds HVAC ducts and a steel support beam. If I was going to replace the panel it would have to be moved over to the left to accomodate the height of a new panel for the circuits. You would have to move the feeder wires from the meter over about 2 feet. I like to think I'm quick and all.....but I dont think I'd be quick enough to remove the meter, run new feeder wire and hook up a couple circuits before the POCO showed up wondering why their smart meter just went offline lol.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Well I think I’d be getting rid of that Zinsco breaker panel in favor of a Sq. D panel.

Its definitely a Bryant/westinghouse

Zinsco breakers are a lot longer and skinnier.

 

[Montyx5]

Call and ask POCO what they require when a customer needs to pull a meter. In my area they only ask to be notified when ever the meter has be pulled so the can reinstall a new tamper wire ring. From a safety stand point, if all you are going to do is work in and around that small panel, it would be best to pull the meter anyways.

Without going into allot of Q and A's, It might be best to consider what you will be doing with this home and barn in the long run. If this is a stepper home and are only looking to get some light and general use outlets in the barn then 60 amp's is probably the best route. If the long term plans for the house including additions and/or remodels and running some larger equipment in the barn than a 200 amp upgrade may be in order.

 

[3rdgendslmech]

Call and ask POCO what they require when a customer needs to pull a meter. In my area they only ask to be notified when ever the meter has be pulled so the can reinstall a new tamper wire ring. From a safety stand point, if all you are going to do is work in and around that small panel, it would be best to pull the meter anyways.

Without going into allot of Q and A's, It might be best to consider what you will be doing with this home and barn in the long run. If this is a stepper home and are only looking to get some light and general use outlets in the barn then 60 amp's is probably the best route. If the long term plans for the house including additions and/or remodels and running some larger equipment in the barn than a 200 amp upgrade may be in order.

No def. not all of that at the time Monty. I'm thinking when that time comes....15 or so years from now when the wife and I are thinking about retirement then we'll probably be moving. For the time being I just need lights some outlets, 20/30 amp breaker for a air compressor and right now I've got a 120V 140amp mig welder but might be upgrading to a hobart 210 and possibly a heat system later down the road.
One person shop usually just wrenching on cars and trucks. Nothing crazy. Only addition i'm planning on doing would be to the barn and thats just adding 16 feet to it for extra storage/gym room.

 

[Norcal]

Well I think I’d be getting rid of that Zinsco breaker panel in favor of a Sq. D panel.

The panel is a Bryant BR, been branded as Westinghouse, Cutler-Hammer, & now Eaton, I call em "Zinsco II" though, during the Westinghouse branding era, they used Zinsco mains in the 150-225A MB panels.