rust removal electrolysis question

[the intimidator]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8586&&showall=1


I am wanting to give this a try I have everything I need but my battery charger being automatic wont give out enough amps to do this task I have a small battery that holds a charge well I am thinking of using it with a fuse inline to limit the currant to 10 amps 5 amps whatever may work best. Will this idea work I have a trickle charger that I can use to keep the battery topped up I am just unsure how to limit the amps to 5 or 10? I was thinking of using a fuse but I don't think it will work as they are designed to limit surges not control the amps I am sure their is something I can use any suggestions? I know it isn't the best bet but if I can see this working and get good results I will get a good manual charger that will work for this application. Thanks guy's

 

[toms73novass]

I really do not think you are going to have to worry about it. I used a 200A start setting on my battery charger and even with large objects like a lower control arm in a 55 gal drum it only ended up pulling 10A.

A fuse will not work at limiting current it will just blow if the rated amount of amperage is met.

 

[the intimidator]

hmm I just hooked my leads right up and put my big charger on to the battery to keep it charged. seems to be working well


Now for a health question I have this set up in the corner of my garage right next to the main door it is open so their should be plenty of air. right now I have a rather sore throat is this a serious side effect? I am using borax as I could not find the arm and hammer stuff It is suppost to work the same way and I can see cleaner metal already just wondering what type of gas those little bubbles contain and if this is a irritation or a health proplem I should probably have checked out Thanks guy's

 

[Junkman]

hmm I just hooked my leads right up and put my big charger on to the battery to keep it charged. seems to be working well


Now for a health question I have this set up in the corner of my garage right next to the main door it is open so their should be plenty of air. right now I have a rather sore throat is this a serious side effect? I am using borax as I could not find the arm and hammer stuff It is suppost to work the same way and I can see cleaner metal already just wondering what type of gas those little bubbles contain and if this is a irritation or a health proplem I should probably have checked out Thanks guy's

I believe that the gas that is given off is hydrogen, and yes, any gas can cause you health problems. In all the forums that I have ever seen a description of how to do this, there was always a precaution that it should be done outside where the gasses will not cause any harm.

 

[the intimidator]

Thanks junkman

I just read up on the hydrogen and it seems to cause aspixiation in large quantity's in enclosed areas nothing abought sore throat. It was right next to the garage door with a fair wind blowing into the garage My conclusion is my sore throat is from the brakeclean I was using I had a bunch of wrenches get a nice coating of permatex and the rubber stuff for tire plugs so I was cleaning them all up in a bucket I got a sore throat from the stuff once before but that was more of a inhaled mist lol thanks for the help identifying the gas though.

This electrolysis stuff is cool and the best part is I don't have to wrestle with a drill or grinder makeing a huge mess with dust and a mess of the item at the same time. I am going to have to get a heavy duty battery charger though to make the most of this experiment hmm new tools for me


edit I think the outside thing is more to prevent a fire from the hydrogen gas it is highly flamable I agree anything that gives off gas flamable or harmfull should be done outdoors or in a well ventilated area

 

[Junkman]

Keep the small trickle charger, because it will work just as well, and cost a lot less in electric. If you are in a hurry, then the larger charger might be a requirement, but you are young, so whats the rush??????

 

[toxicz28]

I believe that the gas that is given off is hydrogen,

It also gives off oxygen. The electrolysis(sp?) seperates the water into hydrogen (highly flammable) and oxygen (vigorously accelerates combustion).

 

[Junkman]

It also gives off oxygen. The electrolysis(sp?) seperates the water into hydrogen (highly flammable) and oxygen (vigorously accelerates combustion).

Oxygen will not harm him, hence I didn't mention it. I didn't want to start down the road of a Chemistry and Materials Science debate.

 

[the intimidator]

Thanks guy's I'll set this up outside next time just to make sure I don't have any issues with anything I would hate to burn down the house or worse injure myself in anyway.

This is a really cool way to get rid of rust too bad I couldn't dip my whole truck into a bucket and come back in a few hours with all the rust gone It will help alot with getting everything cleaned up and ready for repair/paint though

 

[SteveL]

Having just completed my first electroysis project, I have a couple of observations to make that may help others. I used a 30 amp 12 volt power supply that I used to run R/C battery chargers off of and it worked just fine. You can use a regular car battery with a trickle charger hooked up to keep it charged also.

Arm & Hammer Washing Soda should be available at most grocery stores or big stores like WalMart, K Mart etc. In a pinch, go to a pool and spa supply store and get what they use to balance the Ph in the water. Same stuff!

Try to keep the connections to the anode(scarificial metal piece) out of the water solution so it does not corrode. Learned the hard way on that one. I ended up finding that rebar works really well and is cheap or free. Secret is to clean the rebar off frequently as when it gets loaded with corroded material, it cuts back on the effectiveness. I cleaned the rebar off twice a day with a scotch brite pad and made it work a lot better.

Containers can be just about anything that are not metal. I used a mortar mixing tub from Lowes that is 24" x 36" and about 12" deep to do a large table saw cabinet. I had three 3' long pieces of rebar laying in the bottom of the tub.The tub was all of $10. Plastic trash cans or 5 gal buckets work well.

You can reuse the solution multiple times without having to add more washing soda. You will need to add a little water every once in a while to make up for evaporation.

Here's my system is action...............

Do a Google search on Electrolysis and you will find LOTS of reading. I have to say that I wish that I had known about this years ago. Almost easier than sand blasting and just as effective. My table saw cabinet came out perfectly clean bare metal. No paint, no rust, no nothing! 24hrs per side was all it took. If I'd had a bigger container, the whole thing would have been done in a day.

 

[Junkman]

Arm & Hammer Washing Soda should be available at most grocery stores or big stores like WalMart, K Mart etc. In a pinch, go to a pool and spa supply store and get what they use to balance the Ph in the water. Same stuff!

I hate to disagree, but this is not quite right. Washing Soda (sodium carbonate dehydrate) is not the same as baking soda (sodium carbonate). Washing soda much stronger! Now, baking soda can be used, however the results will be severely limited as compared to washing soda. One thing to consider when you are trying to accomplish something with chemistry is that when you start changing ingredients, you change the properties that give you the results that you are looking for. In short, if you use baking soda, don't expect to get the same results as with washing soda. One works well, but the other only works marginally. Also keep in mind that different "strengths" of similar materials also require different handling techniques.

 

[Hawk231]

I did a search on Hydrogen Embrittlement since the topic of electrolysis has come up a couple times recently. It's just something to be aware of.

http://www.htpaa.org.au/article-electro.php

 

[Coach James]

I have a dc power supply that goes up to 15 volts. Will that work in place of a battery charger?

Coach

 

[the intimidator]

How many amps does it supply? It should work just fine if it can supply the amps needed. I am doing a battery tray right now and my charger is pulling 4 amps.

 

[Coach James]

This one has a maximum dc output of 1amp. That might take a while, but I may try anyway.

Coach

 

[the intimidator]

Ok if you guy's re going to run these off of a battery make sure you put a 15 amp fuse inline somewhere. I went out to the store this afternoon and came back to see my charger unpluged two burnt 6 gauge leads with no coating left I guess one of my brothers bumped into the setup and the pos lead and my battery tray made contact in the pool shorting the hole thing out, of course being attached to a battery (small atv type) let all the amps fry everything hopefully my charger is still ok I haven't yet looked at it. It was a honest error being uncontrolled outside something was bound to happen I was sort of worried before I left but I never thought much of it lol my part is nice and clean anyway's

I'll post some pic's tomorrow of the crispy leads lol It may have been the battery shorted out internally as well, It was a older one that would not hold it's charge well. I would consider this to be abusive conditions for that battery looking back now I will be investing in a good manual amp control charger charger before doing any more work of this sort I am pretty pleased with the results I have been getting so far I think it has it's place in the restoration of rusted parts although like anything has it's risk's play safe guy's do this outside and have a fused link so should a short occure it won't pose such a hazzard

 

[Willy Victor]

I believe that the gas that is given off is hydrogen, and yes, any gas can cause you health problems. In all the forums that I have ever seen a description of how to do this, there was always a precaution that it should be done outside where the gasses will not cause any harm.

Hydrogen That's what did in the Hindenberg.

Willy

 

[brianpgriset]

Since I started doing those clamps I have about 2/3's of them done, it's so easy to just toss one in the bucket and work on something else! I wish I woulda taken pics of the pipe clamp I did before it was clean, MAN was that thing a mess. Just let all the parts "soak" for about 3 hours, then a quick wire brush, wipedown with acetone, and rattle can hammerd rustoleum and its like new!

FYI what you want to use for your alkaline solution is sodium carbonate. Also, baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) will do the trick. Heck, I read somewhere that a guy used regular liquid washing detergent and still got it to work. Plus is smelled a whole lot better .

 

[bahamasair]

This is the only arm and hammer I can find here

Will it work ok? It says it has sodium carbonate in it but dont know what % it is.

 

[Junkman]

That will work..... the product inside the package is still the same but the packaging has taken on a new look.

 

[george4]

Make sure you get some protection on the metal when you are done ASAP. It is so clean that it will rust if you look at it.

 

[bahamasair]

Thanks guys. Ill pick up a 55 gal plastic drum tomorrow and give it a bash.