Rust Removal

[Beerhippie]

So, from a chemistry POV, what you get when you mix baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and citric acid is sodium citrate and a hell of a foaming mess. You can just skip the mess of making it and buy it in bulk form:

https://www.amazon.com/Its-Just-Emu...-Preserve/dp/B07Q7111C9/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I just ordered some to give it a try. If it works well, I'll contact our brewery chemical supplier and see what they can do in bulk.

I have seem what potassium citrate does to rusty and greasy metal when a kitchen worker used a liquid ABC fire extinguisher to put out a grease fire on our kitchen flattop. It removed every trace of grease and seasoning, leaving nothing but shiny steel behind! If the sodium citrate works half as well, I'll be pleased--especially if it doesn't destroy paint.

 

[Beerhippie]

Looking deeper, it's also used as a descaler for calcium (lime) scale, so I might even be able to get the brewery to buy some!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisodium_citrate

Bottom of the page.

 

[cgrutt]

Well, citric acid came today ready for my next science experiment!




Got to find the damn screw no idea where I might have put it

 

[jd5000]

Well, citric acid came today ready for my next science experiment!




Got to find the damn screw no idea where I might have put it

How did it work out?

 

[cgrutt]

How did it work out?

I haven't done it yet just got back from long weekend upstate. Going to try it tomorrow.

 

[ray h]

How did it work out?

I did a test run of 5 very rusty C-Clamps, left over night. Used a med wire brush on the grinder, they came out looking great. Didn't use the soap. I left the clamps sit several days, did not oil them and no flash rust either. I sprayed painted half of one clamp, I want to see how the paint sticks when I wire brush it again. Thanks for posting this simple solution.

 

[jd5000]

I usually use Citric acid to remove rust, but decided to try this. I don't have a scale and wasn't sure how to convert the stated metric masses into Imperial volumes. I filled a container (about a large man's size shoe box) 3/4 full of water, added 2 scoops (approx. 1 1/4 cups) of Citric acid and 1 scoop (approx. 5/8 cups) Super Washing Soda and a squirt of dish washing soap. There was a lot of foaming. I threw in some rusty items, after 3 hrs., I took some items out and looked. Results were impressive, much better than Citric acid alone. I will keep items in over night. I think this is going to be my new rust removal method.

 

[cgrutt]

Well I put 864 g citric acid, 568 g baking soda a good squeeze of Dawn soap and 2 gal of distilled water into bucket. I then filled with about 1/2 gal of tap water to cover all the parts except portion of screw, which isn't even rusted that badly. Figured it would be better to cover everything with partially diluted mixture than leave a portion of vise out of the solution. At least the cast iron anyway. Started soaking around 5 pm will let it soak overnight and see how it turns out.

 

[Beerhippie]

My sodium citrate (trisodium citrate, if you're feeling picky) arrived yesterday. I found a rusty piece of #5 rebar to test it on.



My first experiment was with 1 oz. of the SC dissolved in 64 fl.oz. of hot water, but didn't heat it any further.

After sitting for 24 hours, the results were... nothing. No noticeable change.

Today, I'm trying 3 oz. of SC in the same 64 fl. oz. of water, but on a hotplate. We'll see what it does. I may try adding a little Dawn soap, as that should help with wetting.

 

[cgrutt]

I'm impatient just checked a little after 2 hrs. This stuff is amazing! Solution has taken on a greenish tint. The heavy rust on dynamic jaw (there's a "pre" picture a few posts back) is all but gone. The rest of the metal looks bright and shiny. Now wondering if i should let it soak overnight or pull it out after a couple more hours...

 

[cgrutt]

Let it soak overnight. Worked amazingly. Now I need to get the rest of the paint off and get some primer on this before it rusts again...

 

[cgrutt]

Looking a little better than it did last night! Got to let it sit 48 hrs before putting the rest of it back together. Didn't go crazy with it the anvil flat had a few deep dings and didn't feel like removing so much metal to make it look pretty so I just painted it. Very happy with the rust solution will definitely use that again.

 

[xnology]

I am extremely happy to see that this wasn't some fluke in my garage!

That vise is pretty stunning!

I have run a few more parts through the original solution with pretty fantastic results.

I have also mixed up a second batch and learned that adding new solution to some already mixed is not good if you have already added dish soap to that which is already mixed. Let's just say that the spot on the garage floor has probably never been so clean...

A "chemistry challenged" individual's insights so far:

1. No matter what color soap you add, this stuff will turn a greenish color when it's working.

2. The mix gets dark pretty quick because the rust and dirt and **** is settling on the bottom. You can carefully change containers and get rid of the dirt and iron and it will continue to do its job, just won't look as nasty.

3. Once there is no longer a visible shape of your object on the top of the mixture, it will still work for a bit, but it does take longer. This happened to mine after over a week's time and I don't know how many parts.

4. Depending on how the rust formed on your parts, a part might require some wire brushing to finish - I had to brush some old calipers and I am pretty sure it was from all the brake dust caked on them along with the rusty rotor dust.

5. This stuff does an amazing job inside threaded holes. I have been able to thread bolts - by hand - into holes that hadn't seen a bolt in decades.

May all your rust come off and your parts be shiny!

 

[cgrutt]

I am extremely happy to see that this wasn't some fluke in my garage!

That vise is pretty stunning!

I have run a few more parts through the original solution with pretty fantastic results.

I have also mixed up a second batch and learned that adding new solution to some already mixed is not good if you have already added dish soap to that which is already mixed. Let's just say that the spot on the garage floor has probably never been so clean...

A "chemistry challenged" individual's insights so far:

1. No matter what color soap you add, this stuff will turn a greenish color when it's working.

2. The mix gets dark pretty quick because the rust and dirt and **** is settling on the bottom. You can carefully change containers and get rid of the dirt and iron and it will continue to do its job, just won't look as nasty.

3. Once there is no longer a visible shape of your object on the top of the mixture, it will still work for a bit, but it does take longer. This happened to mine after over a week's time and I don't know how many parts.

4. Depending on how the rust formed on your parts, a part might require some wire brushing to finish - I had to brush some old calipers and I am pretty sure it was from all the brake dust caked on them along with the rusty rotor dust.

5. This stuff does an amazing job inside threaded holes. I have been able to thread bolts - by hand - into holes that hadn't seen a bolt in decades.

May all your rust come off and your parts be shiny!

Thanks! I threw an old axe/splitter head in the container yesterday curious how it came out it was pretty badly rusted.

 

[cgrutt]

OMG I wish I took a before pic I thought this was too far gone to be salvaged. Interestingly there is still a little rust in some of the nooks and crannies but 99% is completely gone!

 

[xnology]

That looks amazing! How long was it in the “soup”?

 

[milkovich]

Hah, I beat James Wright to the punch by using this on old planes, credit to him though, he links back to the original video. I also used SLS (sodium laureth sulfate) instead of soap. I literally used only a pinch in an entire gallon of solution as SLS is a ridiculous surfactant.

 

[cgrutt]

That looks amazing! How long was it in the “soup”?

Not sure but less than 24 hrs. If I had to guess 17-18 hrs at most. I sprayed it with fluid film and wiped off some of the excess hopefully will keep rust off until I get around to restoring it.

 

[jd5000]

Anyone that has a scale, can you weigh a cup of citric acid to see how much it weighs. Same with washing soda. Trying to convert the original formula's weight

40 grams Washing soda
100 grams citric acid powder

into a volume equivalent for those of use that don't have a small scale. Also trying to convert to Imperial from metric.

 

[xnology]

Anyone that has a scale, can you weigh a cup of citric acid to see how much it weighs. Same with washing soda. Trying to convert the original formula's weight

40 grams Washing soda
100 grams citric acid powder

into a volume equivalent for those of use that don't have a small scale. Also trying to convert to Imperial from metric.

Google:
100g = 2/3 cup
40g = 1/3 cup

Obviously this isn’t perfect, but I used way more baking soda in my first mix and it still worked so I’m pretty sure the recipe is not super critical as long as you’re fairly close. Don’t quote me on this…

 

[xnology]

Started cleaning up an old WALKER-Turner scroll saw. Dropped the table in - sort of. It is too big to lay down in the solution. About 5 hours and rinsed with water and a toothbrush.

Rotated and back in the drink today!

 

[jd5000]

Started cleaning up an old WALKER-Turner scroll saw. Dropped the table in - sort of. It is too big to lay down in the solution. About 5 hours and rinsed with water and a toothbrush.

Rotated and back in the drink today!

Whenever I have an item that is too big for my containers, I make a temporary container (I always use screws so can easily take it apart). Just use some scrap wood to make a box big enough for the item. It can even be just a frame, not a box (as long as it is strong enough not to collapse. If you are not moving the item, you don't even need a base for the box, the floor will act as the base. Now, line the box with a few sheets of plastic (I have a box of that gardening plastic and just cut a piece to size). Just make sure there are no sharp edges that will cut the liner (if so, place something between the item and liner to protect the liner). Place the item in, fill with solution, when done, empty and take the frame apart.

 

[xnology]

Whenever I have an item that is too big for my containers, I make a temporary container (I always use screws so can easily take it apart). Just use some scrap wood to make a box big enough for the item. It can even be just a frame, not a box (as long as it is strong enough not to collapse. If you are not moving the item, you don't even need a base for the box, the floor will act as the base. Now, line the box with a few sheets of plastic (I have a box of that gardening plastic and just cut a piece to size). Just make sure there are no sharp edges that will cut the liner (if so, place something between the item and liner to protect the liner). Place the item in, fill with solution, when done, empty and take the frame apart.

Killer idea! I will be doing exactly this!

Thank you!

 

[TxSteve]

Anyone that has a scale, can you weigh a cup of citric acid to see how much it weighs. Same with washing soda. Trying to convert the original formula's weight

40 grams Washing soda
100 grams citric acid powder

into a volume equivalent for those of use that don't have a small scale. Also trying to convert to Imperial from metric.

100g citric acid is about 1/2 cup

Modernist Ingredients: Volume to Weight Conversion Reference Sheet – Kitchen Alchemy

blog.modernistpantry.com

40 grants washing sida is about 1 tablespoon.

Weight to Volume conversions for select substances and materials

Convert weight to volume for different substances and materials based on their density. Weight and calculated volume are in different units of measurement

www.aqua-calc.com

 

[xnology]

Google was off by a fair amount then!

 

[Beerhippie]

Google was off by a fair amount then!

I'm sure Google was converting grams to fluid ounces of water.

 

[Firstram]

Some people are using baking soda and some are using washing soda. I guess it doesn’t matter?

 

[RTM]

Some people are using baking soda and some are using washing soda. I guess it doesn’t matter?

Washing soda is more concentrated. For electrolysis rust removal, baking soda is much less effective, not sure about this formula.

 

[jd5000]

Wood by Wright just did a video on this:

 

[jd5000]

100g citric acid is about 1/2 cup

Modernist Ingredients: Volume to Weight Conversion Reference Sheet – Kitchen Alchemy

blog.modernistpantry.com

40 grants washing sida is about 1 tablespoon.

Weight to Volume conversions for select substances and materials

Convert weight to volume for different substances and materials based on their density. Weight and calculated volume are in different units of measurement

www.aqua-calc.com

Interesting, that would make Washing Soda 3.2 times heavier than Citric Acid for the same volume. Does that sound correct?

 

[xnology]

The saw table went back in for a few hours. Found an oven pan that was just deep enough. Cleaned up good then I sanded it 100-400 and waxed it. I really like this rust mix. Good stuff.
Time to hit the middle section. The front and back were done in the bucket and the solution only reached a few inches up.


Barely submerged.


Out, rinsed, wiped and tooth-brushed off.


Sanded 100, 220, 400 and a coat of paste wax applied. I don’t think I’ve ever been excited about a scroll saw before.

 

[cgrutt]

The saw table went back in for a few hours. Found an oven pan that was just deep enough. Cleaned up good then I sanded it 100-400 and waxed it. I really like this rust mix. Good stuff.
Time to hit the middle section. The front and back were done in the bucket and the solution only reached a few inches up.


Barely submerged.


Out, rinsed, wiped and tooth-brushed off.


Sanded 100, 220, 400 and a coat of paste wax applied. I don’t think I’ve ever been excited about a scroll saw before.

Looks good. I've had good luck using a handheld grinder with wire brush put over a 3M scotch Brite pad and rubbing compound to really shine up tops like that.

 

[xnology]

Looks good. I've had good luck using a handheld grinder with wire brush put over a 3M scotch Brite pad and rubbing compound to really shine up tops like that.

So in my head this is sort of making sense. Next time you set it up, would you mind sending me a photo?

Sanding is pretty easy, just messy. I’m always up for different methods if they are easier or less messy!

 

[Firstram]

For what it’s worth, the smoother and more polished surface just adds to the stick slip. It does look good though!

 

[cgrutt]

So in my head this is sort of making sense. Next time you set it up, would you mind sending me a photo?

Sanding is pretty easy, just messy. I’m always up for different methods if they are easier or less messy!

Ugh, another project

I've actually been meaning to touch up my saw it's been in storage for several years and I'm worried top is getting damaged.

 

[TxSteve]

My "go to" for rust and paint on surfaces is a paint removal disk on the angle grinder.

But, my tools are tools so once I get the rust off and make them functional (and fairly pretty), they don't need to be perfect. Clean them up, a squirt of T9, and I'm good to go for surfaces.

 

[TxSteve]

Interesting, that would make Washing Soda 3.2 times heavier than Citric Acid for the same volume. Does that sound correct?

 

[jywilli69]

I came across this video on youtube. Looked interesting enough to give it a try. I was pretty surprised at the results for common household stuff - and I was quite skeptical dropping the first part in.

Beyond Ballistics did a fantastic job here!



The '57 Chevy truck door hinge was in the solution for basically 24 hours.
The rocking chair spring was in for 15-16 hours and is next to the control group "twin".

I think all in the cost of the supplies is less than a couple of bucks per mixture.

1 liter distilled H2O
63 grams baking soda
100 grams citric acid powder (canning aisle @ Walmart)
Squirt or two of dish soap

Enjoy!
Edit to correct baking soda amount. 100g still works, but maybe not optimally…

I think it’s a good idea, I might just try it.

 

[xnology]

I think it’s a good idea, I might just try it.

You will be pleasantly surprised!

I am still skeptical every time I drop more parts in. And I am just as surprised when I remove and rinse them.

The worst part is the impatience... I want to remove parts after only a few minutes because of how well this works.

I don’t understand how the bubbles can outline the part, but even more so, how can you read the text in the bubbles of a part that is 3” or more below the surface… found this gem behind my daughters rental garage.


Look closely. You can read CHAMP 2 in the bubbles…

 

[autobon7]

You will be pleasantly surprised!

I am still skeptical every time I drop more parts in. And I am just as surprised when I remove and rinse them.

The worst part is the impatience... I want to remove parts after only a few minutes because of how well this works.

I don’t understand how the bubbles can outline the part, but even more so, how can you read the text in the bubbles of a part that is 3” or more below the surface… found this gem behind my daughters rental garage.


Look closely. You can read CHAMP 2 in the bubbles…

Turned out great