Rust repair advice.

[Brad Beam]

I have an '07 suburban that has developed a bit of cancer. I have called the local shops and no one wants to touch it. What is the best way to stop or slow the rust and prep it for paint? There is a small dime sized spot above the windshield and some around the rear fender well. Would like to get a few more year out of this vehicle as it only has a 150k on the ticker.

Thanks

Brad

 

[dougf]

The guys who are experts and perfectionists will tell you all the rust must be removed and epoxy prime and paint after metalwork is the only way to fix it right. And they are correct. BUT... To get by, wire wheel the rust, wipe down with thinner of choice, spray some rust converter on it, then hit it with a spray primer and paint that best matches your vehicle. If there's any rust holes I would do the same as above, with body filler after the rust converter and then sand and paint. This is assuming you just want to get by and stop/mostly slow the rust. I've seen repairs like this last 10 years and not show any signs of failure.

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

The guys who are experts and perfectionists will tell you all the rust must be removed and epoxy prime and paint after metalwork is the only way to fix it right. And they are correct. BUT... To get by, wire wheel the rust, wipe down with thinner of choice, spray some rust converter on it, then hit it with a spray primer and paint that best matches your vehicle. If there's any rust holes I would do the same as above, with body filler after the rust converter and then sand and paint. This is assuming you just want to get by and stop/mostly slow the rust. I've seen repairs like this last 10 years and not show any signs of failure.

I'm NOT an "expert" and I'm not perfect enough to qualify as a perfectionist.

But there is such a thing as actually fixing a problem and just covering it up. What's described here^^^^^^^ is covering it up.

Yeah, it works to cover the problem but dont sell it to someone without telling them, that's just unscrupulous. Karma, "what-goes-around-comes-around" whatever you call it, is a saying for a reason.

 

[rburke65]

Possibly use a hand held, portable, spot sand blaster to remove th rust, and then a POR-15 type product to cover the bare metal?

 

[Zeke]

I've done a lot of rust repair and I know what works. You're gonna get a lot of replies here and many of them will be saying the same thing with different words.

The simple truth is that rust must be removed completely from both sides of the metal. Now how you do that will be included in all the replies to your question. Me, I do it one of 2 ways: cut it out and patch it, or sandblast it to nothing but silver metal (not a spec of black) and coat it with urethane like POR 15. You can use a fiberglass mesh with the POR 15 and cover that with filler. The first method is the preferred one. The 2nd is just a band-aid that will last. If you can't get to the backside of the rusted area, there is no 2nd method.

 

[rjamesohio]

Guys, I've done a lot of restorations over the years and can tell you there is a VAST difference between surface rust and rust that has made Swiss cheese out of a piece of metal.

The latter must be cut out and replaced with new metal.

Light surface rust can be treated and the piece saved. My absolute favorite treatment system is made by Mastercoat, and I've used it for years now. If you can get the metal cleaned using their prep chemicals or a wire wheel, then brush their paint on top of the area, it will hold up very well. And you can topcoat it with professional body treatments such as filler and primer surfacer.

I trust this on my own vehicles as well as projects I do professionally.


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[theoldwizard1]

There is a small dime sized spot above the windshield ...

This one needs to be fixed THE PROPER WAY ! If the rust gets down into the area where the windshield mounts, it will be VERY expensive to fix.

I had a spot like that on my '98 E150. I also had a windshield seal/gasket fail. I had the windshield replaced (they will not do a seal by itself; high probability of the glass failing when it is removed) the area properly prepared, primer and painted with the windshield out and the after the paint dried, the new windshield and seal were install.

If it had rusted through, I probably would have lived with a leaky windshield or scrapped it again, because no one will touch it (happened on another car I owned during college days; carried a towel for the dash).

 

[Brad Beam]

From what I can tell it is all surface rust, but it is a 10 yr old vehicle so who knows. I just want to coax a few more years out of it without it looking like a hoopty.

 

[dougf]

I'm NOT an "expert" and I'm not perfect enough to qualify as a perfectionist.

But there is such a thing as actually fixing a problem and just covering it up. What's described here^^^^^^^ is covering it up.

Yeah, it works to cover the problem but dont sell it to someone without telling them, that's just unscrupulous. Karma, "what-goes-around-comes-around" whatever you call it, is a saying for a reason.

He said he wanted "a few more years" out of the vehicle, which is the advice I have given him. If he wanted to do a full repaint obviously this isn't the route to go, I thought that was obvious.

 

[dougf]

From what I can tell it is all surface rust, but it is a 10 yr old vehicle so who knows. I just want to coax a few more years out of it without it looking like a whoopty.

Then sand the rust off, convert what's left, and paint to match the best you can, keep an eye on it and rock on. People are going to tell you to do over the top things and spend more money than you need for what you want. Replacing all the metal and a 2k repaint for a few more years isnt practical or financially wise given your scenario.

 

[94EG8]

Some pictures would go a long way. The spot above the windshield if it's as you're describing it, is probably surface rust and the result of a rock chip. If it doesn't go under the windshield molding it's pretty straight forward, sandblast the spot with a small handheld spot blaster (you can get these for about $20, you'll just need some sand and access to a compressor) then put some epoxy primer on it, putty, sand, high build, sand, paint. (if all you care about is preventing rust and aren't worried about looks you can simply epoxy and then paint over top) If it's under the windshield you'll have to pull it, do the work and either put the glass back in or replace it if it's broken or breaks on the way out.

The other spot, it's pretty hard to give accurate advice without seeing it. Everyone seems to think they have surface rust, occasionally it is, usually it's the panel has rusted through from the back and now it's starting to show through on the outside.

 

[Brad J.]

The spot above the windshield might be surface rust from a stone chip.

The spot above the rear wheel wells isn't surface rust. It's rot from the backside outward. New quarter skin is the best fix for that. The only permanent repair. Cutting out the area and welding in a new piece can last depending on procedure. Most shops don't spend the time to do it proper. They'd be out of business if they did.

Por and other rust converters are just snake oil. Remove the rust and coat with a good epoxy primer and your sealed.

 

[Kaizen]

Possibly use a hand held, portable, spot sand blaster to remove th rust, and then a POR-15 type product to cover the bare metal?

Make sure you top coat por as it's not uv tolerant.
Op as everyone says complete removal is best. But on my daily driver it's acceptable to grind out what you can, hit with rust converter, fill with metal preferably via welding or panel bond, body filler and paint. Once you start digging it can get big and out of control fast. The rust at the window will cause other issues with water running in. Also careful to protect the trim/weatherstrip/windshield


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[Brad Beam]

Here's a couple pics

 

[KDXSR5]

Is that the diamond tri-coat pearly white paint? If so that may be why no one wants to touch it. That paint is expensive and a pain in the *** to match. I have a suburban this color, and it is very expensive to get any paint work/body work done on it. Looks good when new though, for sure.

 

[Zeke]

The first pic is not surface rust.

I've treated rust many ways and acid as well as conversion products do not work unless the metal is new and has recently rusted because of exposure. No pitting. Once pitting occurs the pores of the metal must be cleaned mechanically to bright metal. If there is any black left on the metal only full encapsulation will stop further rust. There is no middle ground here. Allow a modicum of air or water past that barrier and the tin worm is instantly back in business.

 

[Brad Beam]

I'm currently housebound with a bum shoulder in a few weeks I'll pull the inner fender well and see if the back side is accessible. I think the color is "silver birch"?

 

[KDXSR5]

I'm currently housebound with a bum shoulder in a few weeks I'll pull the inner fender well and see if the back side is accessible. I think the color is "silver birch"?

Disregard my color comment then. Hopefully it is not rusting through from the back, but it is pretty likely.

 

[94EG8]

First pic as stated isn't surface rust, it's coming through from the back. Whatever you see is about 10 times worse on the other side. There's not much you can do with that for a long term fix besides cut the rust and weld in new metal. If you're not willing to do that I probably wouldn't touch it at all. A half assed job will make it rust even faster than doing nothing, plus in 6 months to a year it will look even worse than it did before you started.

The other pic, if you can remove the trim and there's no rust under it, great, just blast the little spot, epoxy it and touch it up. If it extends further than that you'll have to pull the glass. From what I can see though I think just removing the trim will work.

 

[Bill Bowman]

I'm currently housebound with a bum shoulder in a few weeks I'll pull the inner fender well and see if the back side is accessible. I think the color is "silver birch"?

Save your time pulling the fender liner. It's not going to expose your problem. The problem is in the inner part that you can't see without cutting off the bad portion of the quarter panel. You're lucky it's not worse.

 

[Brad Beam]

So any good tutorials about how to cut it out and weld it back. I am not terrible with a mig but I am definitely not an expert. How 'bout paint blending. Let me have it

 

[Zeke]

So any good tutorials about how to cut it out and weld it back. I am not terrible with a mig but I am definitely not an expert. How 'bout paint blending. Let me have it

Check out MP&C's shop builds right her on the GJ. No better tutorial anywhere.

 

[EdT]

As on about every forum I visit, a question like yours gets a number of answers. None of them is wrong, they are just different. Regardless of the method you choose to fix the truck, it's had ten years in the corrosive Ohio environment and you can fix what you see now and there will be more come springtime. It's not a "special" vehicle. There are plenty more in Ohio just as rusty as yours and in another 5 or 6 years they will be rustier; just like yours. There are plenty more in areas where rust is a non-issue so any time or money you spend will not come back to you when you decide to give the truck up in a few years. So, if you are up for a lot of tedious work, have at it. Just realize that it's losing battle unless you want to do a full body off rotisserie restoration which would be HUGE project and wouldn't result in anything worth more than something from elsewhere in the country. It'd be smarter to go to Arizona or someplace and get another truck. The reason that body shops won't touch it is they know that, even if they do a bang up job, you will be back next year complaining that it's rusting again (in a different spot) and you want them to fix it for free. Your best bet would be to put something on the area around the windshield, since that could actually result in a leak into the interior, and just let the rest go. Second best would be to find out where the sleaziest used car dealer in town sends similar cars to get touched up with a one year repair.

 

[Zeke]

Or buy a fender and paint it. The area around the windshield is another subject.

Now let's get to down and dirty fixes. HF sells a cheap pneumatic hole punch with a flanger on the other side of the die. Good patches are **** welded but there is an easier and much quicker way, probably the one used by the sleazy bodyshop Ed mentions.

Cut out the panel to good metal and offset flange it with the tool. Cut a panel to fit inside that area and use body panel bonder to attach it. Grind and fill. One hour.

 

[CJM8515]

Right way is to cut out all rust, treat the metal behind if needed and then weld in new panels, and do it up. The cheap way is to cut out the rust, fiberglass it and get a can of matching spray paint or bedline the rocker area to hide it. I fixed a large 3x3" hole in the bed of my old truck by the wheel well. I did it so well my buddy thought I paid someone to do it. Fiberglass bondo, metal screen mesh and bondo and time. Then matched spray paint and clear.

Then again said truck was 15 years old and I didnt care an insane amount.

There is also a special glue like caulk you can get where you can glue in new panels instead of welding them.

 

[Lincolncruiser95]

Guaranteed that behind that rust in the first picture is internal sound deadening foam that has saturated. It is also guaranteed to have attacked the inner fender structure as well. Just like cab corners on a pickup. That foam traps all sorts of filth and water and the mud slowly rots the corner out. When I did my cab corners and rockers on my truck, I got rid of all that ****. Yep. Little louder inside but wont rust from that again.

 

[jdieter]

Gotta agree with EdT, it's just not a cost effective repair. My 02 Silverado rockers and cab corners are gone. I've all ready replaced all the brake lines,the rear leaf spring perches and the frame is completely covered with heavy surface rust - so much for undercoating, I'll never buy that again. The interior looks like day 1, the paint is solid (except for the cancerous growths) and the truck runs great but approaching 150K miles. Several grand at body shop or many days of my time and about 1/2 the expense of a body shop, just not gonna happen with a rust belt p/u.
I cut all the rusty areas away on the rockers this winter so the slop has no where to stick easily. Next summer I'll pull the bed, sandblast the frame and rocker area rust and cover it with the rust inhibitor ****, glue on a couple cab corners, reinforce the areas cut away on the crappy rocker panel design, cover the sills/rocker panels with bed liner paint and be on the lookout for some inexpensive running boards to disguise the hillbilly rocker repair.

 

[Brad Beam]

For aesthetics I am wondering about doing a color matched rhino liner or equivalent around the bottom of the body rather than actually fixing the rust. How many years would I get out of that 3-4 maybe?

 

[jdieter]

Worth a try, remove as much loose rust as possible and use some kind of rust encapsulating stuff. However if its the rockers it's inside out rust and the inner rockers have had it on my truck also. If I would have caught mine sooner I would have hole sawed several holes in the inner rocker panel so I could flush the **** out that gets trapped Maybe 1" or so and found pop-in plastic plugs to seal the holes. The factory drain holes are worthless. Same kinda plan with the cab corners

 

[jdieter]

After I cut the outer rockers away I dug out a full wash bucket of ****, that's a lot of trapped **** to retain moisture, even for a crew cab.

 

[Brad Beam]

Yeah I'm sure it is full of ****. I have one appt for it this week at a body shop, then I'll probably think more seriously about the bed liner option. Thanks for the input I'll post up some pics on what ever I choose to do.

 

[94EG8]

I've all ready replaced all the brake lines,the rear leaf spring perches and the frame is completely covered with heavy surface rust - so much for undercoating, I'll never buy that again.

Undercoating works well if you use the right product. You need something like Rust Check or Krown that really soaks in and doesn't wash off easily. You also need to have it done every year.

For aesthetics I am wondering about doing a color matched rhino liner or equivalent around the bottom of the body rather than actually fixing the rust. How many years would I get out of that 3-4 maybe?

About a year. It's just going to keep rusting underneath and blistering.

 

[Pronovabigblock]

I just fixxed a 2010 that was white tricoat pearl and the paint was a pain in the rear end lol the rust is def coming from the inseide around the wheel well area ..customers idid was the portion between rear door and tire right at bottom of quarter . it was three small rust dots until i ground it then it was a hole i could fit my fist in. I think these rust alot due to the foam put in behind panel had no option but install a patch panel that i got from are vender.. Use caution as the foam can catch fire when cutting and welding i remove as mutch of it as possible before installing new metal . i fins gluing them on is better than welding as it does not heat fatigue the metal and is a better seal also a good structural adhesive has rust preventive added in hope this helps

 

[Pronovabigblock]

50%waste oil50% diesel fuel in a garden sprayer spray in every hole you can get at ... Make a few extra holes that cant be seen in rockers inner fenders spray away on a back country road lol ... I do it atleast once a year ... I have an04 duramax with original rockers in michigan salt .. The outside has been repainted due to chips and real surface rust but no holes ever

 

[racer-john]

Hey Zeke: this is one of your quotes from page one
sandblast it to nothing but silver metal (not a spec of black) and coat it with urethane like POR 15.
POR stands for "Paint Over Rust", according to the manufacturer it will not stick to bare or sandblasted metal.