Rustoleum Enamel Questions

[Beemer]

Tried to apply the brush on Protective enamel on a sanded clean black iron pipe and it kicked my ****. The temperature was not excessive, about 80, and it was painted inside, out of sunlight.

The paint resisted back brushing within a few minutes and needed more paint to fill in the brush lines after trying that so the result is some sags and slow drying.
After 24 hours the coating can be handled but marks easily.

I should add that their brush on primer did the same thing regarding not allowing back brushing without resisting. It's like a flash set, but not.

Their application information doesn't mention sanding before an additional coat but I need to do it to get a better surface after the first struggle.
Anyone sanded that paint, wet or dry and which is better?

Would rattle can spraying a new top coat be less problematic?

I've painted quite a bit in the past and never had problems like this before. I've never painted a small diameter pipe though. Perhaps there is something about the material.

 

[dougf]

Here's a thread from 2013 that may help with your question: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/rust-oleum-spray-enamel-wont-dry.186566/

Personally Ive had the same exact issue with the primers if I lay it on too thick. I've either had to bake it or let it sit for a long time to cure.

 

[Beemer]

I asked them about the sanding and the reply was that they don't recommend sanding but if it is necessary, dry sand and wait atleast 24 hours after sanding before recoating. What to Hell???

 

[The Cobbler]

24 hours after sanding before recoating.

maybe something to do with off gassing or surface cure . I know some paints have a recoat window, before 1 hr or after 24 hrs sort of thing

 

[OccupantRJ]

You might could try a bit of reducer or penetrol in the paint along with a foam brush to see how things go.

 

[Doozer75]

80°F is pretty hot and will make Rustoleum dry pretty fast,
especially if you are painting something metal.
Try cooler or add thinners. I have used mineral spirits for
brushing or lacquer thinner for spraying.

-Doozer

 

[Beemer]

80°F is pretty hot and will make Rustoleum dry pretty fast,
especially if you are painting something metal.
Try cooler or add thinners. I have used mineral spirits for
brushing or lacquer thinner for spraying.

-Doozer

Interesting.
Does that wash out the color?
Does it make the ultimate drying time longer, like more day(s).

 

[carlaisle]

The enamel Rustoleum I have handled dries pretty fast. I would not attempt to brush it if the final appearance is a concern. It sprays beautifully and is not prone to running as long as you don't lay it on too thick. Can you use aerosol or a gun? Recoat when it's tacky, probably around 10 minutes in the conditions you describe. Put some on a scrap piece so you can test without risk. You can touch it 24 hours later, but you're better off waiting 48 if you can. At 24 hours it's still pretty delicate and fingerprints can leave an impression if you're not careful. It takes about 2 weeks to fully cure at room temperature.

If it was me, I would start over. Sand/strip, clean, degrease, heat, prime, paint.

 

[GirlnAgarage]

I'm using Rustoleum Pro gloss black over Rustolum red oxide primer. Metal pipes are sanded/prepped w 80grit flap disc or oscillating sander. Then wiped clean with denatured alcohol.

Primer is thinned w thinner and left to dry over 24hrs before any next application..probably 6:1? I'm not really measuring, just a splash.

The paint is thinned 8:1 ish with thinner and a cap of majik catalyst hardener and rolled on. Its drying well, its hot and humid and left to sit fow a few days. The paint is very thick butstaying well on the primered surface.

I'm painting pipe fence and after pre-painting a few, its easier to paint after the primered pipe is installed in the ground so the pipe can dry in place.

 

[Stelzer]

What brush are you using? Contrary to popular belief, mineral spirits will actually increase the dry time, so I wouldn't advise it for your application. Consider adding some Penetrol. Might also think about spraying it. If cup guns or hvlp are out of the question, maybe Pre-Vals or even aerosols.

 

[Beemer]

The enamel Rustoleum I have handled dries pretty fast. I would not attempt to brush it if the final appearance is a concern. It sprays beautifully and is not prone to running as long as you don't lay it on too thick. Can you use aerosol or a gun? Recoat when it's tacky, probably around 10 minutes in the conditions you describe. Put some on a scrap piece so you can test without risk. You can touch it 24 hours later, but you're better off waiting 48 if you can. At 24 hours it's still pretty delicate and fingerprints can leave an impression if you're not careful. It takes about 2 weeks to fully cure at room temperature.

If it was me, I would start over. Sand/strip, clean, degrease, heat, prime, paint.

I was brushing and out of the can it's as thick as latex.
The company wrote about it and said it could take a week to cure and you are right about 23 hours being optomistic for getting a hard surface. I am sure steel fabricators wouldn't come within a mile of this stuff.
If I had known that I would have used Krylon or try Sherwin DTM. Good lesson learned.

My fabricator advised to use a small short napped roller on pipes with the Rustoleum as he does. Wish I heard that earlier too.
Right now the plan is to sand the issues out because I have a rainy week to sit around waiting for good weather.
If the roller solution doesn't work better for another coat then everything is going to get stripped for another, but spray, product.

 

[imagineer]

I've had very good results brush painting with Rustoleum. I recently repainted a picnic table frame and it turned out looking like powder-coat.

I use a foam brush, but not a cheap one, rather one that is more dense and the pores in the foam are smaller. Also, for what it's worth, I usually just toss the brush afterwards rather than try to clean it.

I use reducer, Majic #8-0750-3 and Majic hardener #8-9050-4 (I used Majic brand because it's available at the local Tractor Supply).

 

[alfadan]

Humidity definitely slows drying time IME. The catalyst hardener is definitely worth it. Makes the paint harder and gives it a gloss.

 

[MoonRise]

Some of the Rustoleum paints I've used in the past had l-o-n-g set-up times before they finally fully set-up and hardened. As in I could still smell solvent a week later after application. The paint did finally set-up though (IIRC, that was some hammered finish paint, I don't remember now if it was spray can or brush on but I think it may have been brush on).

It's not the material you are painting, for painting steel is pretty much steel. The paint is not reacting to the steel or anything, it is just paint going on top of the steel. A reactive coating is different though (rust conversion coatings for instance).

Different paints do apply differently though. Some don't flash-off quickly and allow time to back brush (I can still remember some alkyd enamel that I brush applied and that stuff wanted/needed a lot of back-brushing to flow out properly. Turned out nice once I figured out the what/how that particular paint wanted/needed), and others flash-off quickly so it's more of an 'apply it quickly and then leave it alone' scenario.

If the paint is applied and 'dry' but not hard-cured yet, some rain shouldn't hurt it at all. Just leave it alone and wait it out.

(yes, some paints have recoat application windows because of getting proper adhesion between the different coats. If applied within the recoat window then the layers are usually chemically bonding to one another. If you apply the second coat too early then that can cause curing problems with the undercoat layer. If you apply too late, then there is no more chemical bonding between layers and usually then you have to at least scuff sand the existing layer in order to give some 'tooth' so that the new layer can physically bond into the roughened surface.)

Be careful though with adding different brand/type additives to paints though as some are not fully compatible with one another. Majic hardener works with Majic paints, I do not KNOW how well it works or doesn't with Rustoleum oil-based enamel paint.

And the recommended thinner for thinning Rustoleum oil-based Protective Enamel brush-on paint when spraying it with air-spray equipment is actually acetone and clean-up is with mineral spirits. Check the tech sheets at

Stops Rust Spray Paint and Brush-On Paint | Rust-Oleum

Transform a wide variety of surfaces and defend them against rust with Rust-Oleum Stops Rust spray paint and brush-on paint.

www.rustoleum.com

And be aware the the Majic hardener contains polyisocyanates (nasty stuff and REQUIRES proper ventilation and PPE).

 

[Beemer]

The pieces are resting in the basement where the environment is pretty stable so I'll see what happens.
Planning on trying rolling on the same paint as a second coat and if that fails it's all going to be stripped.
This never used to be so hard. Seems like it used to be paint it and forget it.

 

[Beemer]

Deleted.

 

[Beemer]

Ok, so I followed my ironworker friend's advice to use a short napped roller to put Rustoleum on steel and it worked like a charm.
I think the solution is to apply less paint than the brush was doing. The 1/4" nap roller covered with a thinner coat in no time and it leveled out fine. After about four hours it dried to the touch. The brushed layer took a full day to get to this state.

 

[Busted Knucles]

Its a pipe, slop another coat on it and move on.

 

[Beemer]

Its a pipe, slop another coat on it and move on.

No, it's a handrail.
Don't want and busted knuckles or palms for that matter!

 

[PCustoms]

No, it's a handrail.
Don't want and busted knuckles or palms for that matter!

Didn't think black pipe was allowed as a handrail anymore

 

[nadogail]

Hand Rails are often built from pipe.

IMHO, the most efficient way to get a coat of paint on smaller diameter pipe is with a “Painters Mitten”.

 

[Beemer]

Didn't think black pipe was allowed as a handrail anymore

Sure it is.
Working with an ironworker who fabricated them for a living not to mention I've designed them for over 40 years.
What else could be used outdoors?
There are both dimensional and loading requirements in the Building Code.

 

[hans109h]

You beat me too your conclusion that you were over applying. I didn't figure this out until I sprayed with it and got a feel for how thin of a coat worked best. After that I was able to brush better without the need of anything but the right brush/pad.

 

[walta]

Seems to me the pipe surface was protected with oil or wax to prevent rust and now contaminated. My guess is that if the surface was flat, we would recognize it as fish eye defect.

90% of any pain job is prep.

Sand to a clean surface wide with lacquer thinner and prime and paint.

Walta

 

[Beemer]

Seems to me the pipe surface was protected with oil or wax to prevent rust and now contaminated. My guess is that if the surface was flat, we would recognize it as fish eye defect.

90% of any pain job is prep.

Sand to a clean surface wide with lacquer thinner and prime and paint.

Walta

It was sanded to bare steel and chemically cleaned several times before any paintwork.
The relative humidity was pressing the limits for many days.

The second coat by roller application done after a week is curing quicker. Relative humidity is much lower and the application was much thinner. The runs sanded out of the brush coat but the roller coat was done to revive the lost shine.
I think it's going to turn out well now.

 

[TonyG109]

Sorry, but I had to laugh out loud as I read about your woes because I felt your pain! I love the finish that can be achieved with the Rustoleum oil based paints, but getting there can be a challenge as many of us have found out. Your experience of not being able to back brush is exactly what I've experienced at times. Under certain conditions you've got to work fast with this stuff and almost always have the patience of a saint when letting it cure. But the results can be worth the pain. I'm glad to hear you figured out a technique that worked for your situation!

 

[Beemer]

Sorry, but I had to laugh out loud as I read about your woes because I felt your pain! I love the finish that can be achieved with the Rustoleum oil based paints, but getting there can be a challenge as many of us have found out. Your experience of not being able to back brush is exactly what I've experienced at times. Under certain conditions you've got to work fast with this stuff and almost always have the patience of a saint when letting it cure. But the results can be worth the pain. I'm glad to hear you figured out a technique that worked for your situation!

Thanks for that.
Lesson learned. Clearing my shelf of Rustoleum products so I won't forget!

 

[Sumboodie]

Takes weeks for that **** to dry. Of course bugs, dirt, dog hair, etc is fully coated to it by then.

No idea who buys that **** a 2nd time!

 

[Beemer]

Takes weeks for that **** to dry. Of course bugs, dirt, dog hair, etc is fully coated to it by then.

No idea who buys that **** a 2nd time!

Seems to be all HD carries here.
I love Sherwin Williams exterior stains so I might look to see if they make paints for metals.
I think I saw something called "direct to metal" but have to inquire.

 

[TonyG109]

Takes weeks for that **** to dry. Of course bugs, dirt, dog hair, etc is fully coated to it by then.

No idea who buys that **** a 2nd time!

Yeah, I somewhat shamefully have to confess it's my go to paint for most projects as long as I have the time to let it dry/cure. It's definitely not the paint to use if you're in a hurry as it can honestly seem to take several weeks to truly fully cure. But the finished product is extremely durable.

 

[Burl]

Most steel pipe is coated with some type of oil in the production process. Wile it down with some cheap thinner before painting, this should help.

 

[Kaleb]

Clean with acetone and use a 4" foam roller to apply the Rustoleum. I did this with some rectangular tube (it was primed from factory) and the finish was pretty good. I realize now it was in January when I did it outside in the sun, so not very hot.

 

[cuddlebear1808]

Had similar issue, Glad i'm in the right place.