Rustoleum floor paint fail!!!

[e-tek]

Y'all may recall my application of Rustoleum Garage Floor Coating 2.5 years back:

Well..... here it is today :

I sent the photo's to them and they've asked for some paint flake samples - to test for concrete powder, so they can try and deny the warranty. It's the paint for sure - but even so, their liability limit is product replacement.

Best case scenario: "Good news - it's warrantied. Here's another gallon. Enjoy the sanding, cleaning and re-application process again you dumb *******...."

 

[Zeke]

Something doesn't look right about that concrete to me.

 

[Jere]

How long is it warranted for?

It has been my experience that they make it so comes off, so you have to buy more. I have never had rustolem without it flaking off somewhere. And not like it puts up a fight either, it's more like if a mouse sneezes in Wyoming...

 

[Big-Foot]

I dunno Ed, I think your best case scenario is about right... Good luck man!

 

[G20-Budo]

Wow.. results like this might cause me to move towards RaceDeck.. and I saw that post the other guy posted about tire dressing in the concrete, I might have some of that on mine. Hmm.. Thanks for the post e-tek, keep us updated.

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

E-Tek, for a little extra 'leverage' in your complaint, you might just mention your intention to post their response here at TGJ. The fact that the 'member list' shows about 160,000 (30 members/page x 5,315 pages) might influence how they treat you. Good luck!


P.S. - Anybody have a guess as to the number of 'lurkers' that visit the site?

 

[allinon72]

IMO, if one is going to spend a lot of prep time diamond grinding, etc., might as well use better quality products than off the shelf stuff.

 

[Boyd]

Hmmm...I used Rustoleum almost 4 years ago on a new slab. I've had ZERO issues with it. No lifting, peeling, hot tire issues, nothing. The only regret I have is not using the clear sealer, but that was my fault.

 

[dubber]

That was my greatest fear in using that product. Sorry to hear your dealing with this.

 

[Scott r c]

I used the same product and had the same result after two years. Diamond grind and real epoxy and now all is well.

 

[c7fx]

My brother had that same issue with the water base product after a few years. I had better luck with the solvent based Rustoleum.

 

[e-tek]

Something doesn't look right about that concrete to me.

You a Rustoleum rep now Zeke?????

 

[T.E.D. Jordan]

From first glance that looks like typical dusty concrete to me - lots of minor air bubbles.

That's just from the looks of it though. Every paint I've had fail has been because of my dusty floors.

Edit: On a second glance your second to last picture kinda looks like theres moisture in the concrete, is that from above or below the paint or is just the way it looks?

Jordan

 

[pauloman]

the epoxy looks very good for 2.5 years. the failure is not from the epoxy.

 

[MarkG]

hmmmm.........that stinks. I've always been skeptical that ANY garage floor coating can last, simply because porous concrete is in contact with damp earth on the bottom side of your slab and you can't seal that, so no matter how good the coating is on top, there is still moisture right below it absorbing into the concrete making it's way to the surface and with no way for it to dry out or escape (once it's sealed) it will push off and delaminate whatever coating is put on it eventually. Sure some may grip better than others----for a while.

Just an observation. I really don't care if anyone agrees with me or not-----I'm not trying to sell anything, but I'd never paint my garage floor with ANY product, but to each his own.

 

[countrysquire]

Yet another posts to convince me that porcelain is the way to go with my new garage.

 

[Zmw]

your Concrete looks different then mine. I just finished grinding. How was your surface regarding grit and water beading? my slab looks more uniform after grinding where as your pics seem more blotchy. i wonder if this was the problem???

Those pics are scary - soo much work done only for only 1-2 years of good results.

Sorry man, that *****. I hope I have a better story in 2-3 years... I am using 2 coats of Valspar epoxy with a clear urethane topcoat

 

[ishiboo]

the epoxy looks very good for 2.5 years. the failure is not from the epoxy.

+1.

I stand by my stance that any two-part, true epoxy product is going to perform reasonably well and like other two-part epoxy products. That definitely looks like a failure of the concrete underneath or improper prep and/or product mixing.

Sorry

 

[dmeadow]

I did Rustoleum on a garage a few years ago. My prep probably wasn't as good as yours since I didn't have the Garage Journal wisdom to guide me.

I had some peeling on newish part of the slab, only waited the minimum 30 days. It stuck better on the old slab, but still got tire lift.

Your area there looks like a section I had where there was some battery acid from a golf cart that dripped on it and I didn't clean up because I didn't know it was there. The concrete underneath became crumbly kind of like some of your pictures. And, no, I don't work for Rustoleum.

Though my experience with it led me to go with porcelain tile this time around.

 

[Jsf721]

I have a Water Based Epoxy last from 2008 until Hurrican Sandy in Late 2012. It would still be perfect except for the flooding and Salt water. Still looks respectible but the Hydrostatic pressure won in spots. I had to cut it in some spots. Thinking about what to do next in terms of EPOXY and Prep. Afraid to simply rough up and re-coat and not looking forward to the tear down and re-prep.

 

[ADSR]

Something doesn't look right about that concrete to me.

Agreed. Looks like it was mixed with a ton of sand.

 

[KPSquared]

So, you used a cheap box store floor coating and it failed? I'm shocked. . . If only there was some sort of website where knowledgeable people gathered to discuss and inform each other of what products to use and what to avoid. . . maybe even one where professionals constantly advise against using crappy box store products. . . hmm. . . I think I'm onto something.

Seriously though, that ***** e-tek. You probably know as well as the rest of us that Rustoleum is going to bone you no matter if it was your fault or not.

Good luck! Keep us posted.

 

[z28toz06]

Hmmm...I used Rustoleum almost 4 years ago on a new slab. I've had ZERO issues with it. No lifting, peeling, hot tire issues, nothing. The only regret I have is not using the clear sealer, but that was my fault.

plus 1 here

 

[e-tek]

Some good insight here gents, thanks. Just to add some depth - this is very old concrete. It was poured in the mid-70's. When I was sanding it didn't appear any concrete came off and there were no spots where the concrete looked to be de-laminating.

As you may have seen in other pics of this garage, we use slush mats to contain snow, ice, salt, mud and dirt....but the one on the worst side was leaking and just replaced - so it was wet under it in spots all winter. Anyone think that had anything to do with it?

 

[venturesomerite]

I have a friend who did that same stuff to the floor in his shop (mechanic). he went nuts for two or three days prepping. It looked like that after a month. Now it looks like a cow.

 

[marty_p]

Sorry for your floor failure, E-tek.

 

[pauloman]

Over my long epoxy industry career I've seen and created the same issue. As I stated above the epoxy was not at fault. I think water based epoxies don't have the adhesion of solvent or solvent free epoxies - a tiny layer of dust on the floor probably caused your problem - takes a few years. Could also be moisture / minerals migrating through the slab - but doesn't appear to be the case here.

Also, the box store rustoleum water based epoxy was the first generation of water based floor epoxies, sold to rustoleum by the original source after the product was deemed 'over the hill' in terms of current epoxy technology. That is not to say that a more modern waterbased floor epoxy would not have had the same issues, it probably would have.

 

[e-tek]

Over my long epoxy industry career I've seen and created the same issue. As I stated above the epoxy was not at fault. I think water based epoxies don't have the adhesion of solvent or solvent free epoxies - a tiny layer of dust on the floor probably caused your problem - takes a few years. Could also be moisture / minerals migrating through the slab - but doesn't appear to be the case here.

Also, the box store rustoleum water based epoxy was the first generation of water based floor epoxies, sold to rustoleum by the original source after the product was deemed 'over the hill' in terms of current epoxy technology. That is not to say that a more modern waterbased floor epoxy would not have had the same issues, it probably would have.

So, the final questions are:

1. I won't bother any further with Rustoleum - looks like it's not good enough and I need to step up to a true Epoxy product. Is there a product that is recognized as better in this situation (ie over 'some' water-based epoxy, sandy concrete and exposed to standing water/salt/mud all winter)?

2. When I re-do it, how much of the Rustoleum do I need to remove - I know ALL of it is a good answer, but it's unlikely ALL of it will come off. Maybe "any that comes off with a couple minutes of the power sander"?

3. What - if anything - can I do to (re)prep the concrete IF it is too sandy? Is there an adhesion promotor or something?

Thanks all!

 

[Shea]

One thing to keep in mind e-tek is that what epoxy that remains on the floor is what your new epoxy is going to adhere to. Ask yourself this; Do you feel comfortable going through the hassle of re-prepping your floor for a good quality epoxy to take the chance that the old stuff underneath is not going to delaminate like the rest did?

 

[pauloman]

Again, I agree with Shea. If you go over the old coating with new, the adhesion to the concrete is whatever the adhesion of the old coating is to the concrete.

For a quick and dirty 'test' prep, I would blast the heck out of it with a waterblaster/water jet unit. It might find and remove 50% of the existing coating, or 5%. But whatever is left behind will be well bonded to the concrete... Well bonded existing coatings (in all sorts of commercial applications) are often top coated with new product unless specs call for more complete removal.

your immediate reaction of blaming the rustoleum epoxy after it worked for years is probably the reason the epoxy professionals here are slow in recommending any of their products to you. The term we use is "customer from Hell".

 

[dmeadow]

So, the final questions are:

1. I won't bother any further with Rustoleum - looks like it's not good enough and I need to step up to a true Epoxy product. Is there a product that is recognized as better in this situation (ie over 'some' water-based epoxy, sandy concrete and exposed to standing water/salt/mud all winter)?

Personally, I think you're setting yourself up for further disappointment by sticking with an epoxy. You're got a situation where epoxy has already failed you. A "better" epoxy may last a little longer, but there are doubts about your substrate and no one is going to warranty the result unless you strip it ALL off and start over and redo all the prep. I'd tile over it, if I were you. Racedeck style tiles may be a good solution-- not dependent upon the substrate and you can just click it down over the existing stuff and forget about it. Otherwise you're

 

[Mike007]

Hmmm...I used Rustoleum almost 4 years ago on a new slab. I've had ZERO issues with it. No lifting, peeling, hot tire issues, nothing. The only regret I have is not using the clear sealer, but that was my fault.

Sorry to hear the OP's has floor problems. My experience with the product is the same as Boyd. Ive had mine down 7 years and have really beat the snot out of it. It's pretty beat up, but still solid. I have a pole-barn and with a floating floor on blue stone and it was put down on 2 month old concrete. Maybe thats the difference?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Grind it off completely, start again with a primer, base coat, urethane clear.
Truly bullet-proof and looks great!!

 

[thegarageguy]

There are many reasons for epoxy failures....insufficient prep, moisture and contaminants. From your pics, we can clearly see that all the original paint was not grinded off. The best, most expensive material on earth will delaminate with bad prep and or moisture issues.

Chalk it up to lesson learned...you got free material, get a decent crew to prep it right for you, do a moisture test and re apply.

Or you can sell the free material and tile it.

 

[KPSquared]

Grind it off completely, start again with a primer, base coat, urethane clear.
Truly bullet-proof and looks great!!

This. I went with tile but after all my research, this solution from legacy is the best for a floor that actually sees use.

Still kinda wishing I did go that route but my tile was SO cheap. . .

 

[e-tek]

Sorry to hear the OP's has floor problems. My experience with the product is the same as Boyd. Ive had mine down 7 years and have really beat the snot out of it. It's pretty beat up, but still solid. I have a pole-barn and with a floating floor on blue stone and it was put down on 2 month old concrete. Maybe thats the difference?

your immediate reaction of blaming the rustoleum epoxy after it worked for years is probably the reason the epoxy professionals here are slow in recommending any of their products to you. The term we use is "customer from Hell".

If you would have read the thread, you would know that several people have chimed in on both sides of this product - some successes, some failures. How does me wanting a product to last more than 2 years - and now deciding not to even bother with a warranty claim - make me the Customer from Hell? Sounds to me like you're a business-owner from hell, always blaming the customer and the substrate and offering no suggestions or help.

Grind it off completely, start again with a primer, base coat, urethane clear.
Truly bullet-proof and looks great!!

Sounds like what I'll be doing. Thanks.

Chalk it up to lesson learned...you got free material, get a decent crew to prep it right for you, do a moisture test and re apply.

Or you can sell the free material and tile it.

Who got free material? You guys really need to READ BEFORE YOU REPLY.....
Another lesson learned.....

 

[dandan111]

I think garage guy was saying if you get free material.

 

[DBALL]

I would ask them to cut you a deal on their professional epoxy from what I have read this stands up well. I used their water base product for color but did put a top coat of professional clear on top and it held up well the past couple of years. My slab was fairly new as well less then a year old. Good luck with whatever happens.

 

[sampsonas]

I have the same problem, renting sander tomorrow to strip it down. I installed mine about two and a half years now on brand new floor, followed directions to the letter and ended with the same results as yours. I am not even bothering with contacting them, I worked for the home store thats sells this brand and rep. gave me every reason but product failure. I am going with a stain this time.

 

[Zick]

I used basically the same stuff in our new garage ~4yrs ago and it still holding up fine today.

The difference was back then Rustoleum sold two versions of this stuff. One was water based and the other was Professional version (Solvent based I believe). We bought the solvent based since it was more expensive and read that it's suppose to hold up better than the water based version.

***** that it's doing that in only a couple years.