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Ryan's Multi-purpose shop

gogolf0401

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West central MN
Hi Guys. Been on here for a little while learning and asking lots of questions. Man I love this resource. Thank you for your help thus far.

I am in the process of finishing my 40x88 pole building and figured I'd share my project with GJ.

I'll try to comment on each picture I post. Feel free to ask questions.
 
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gogolf0401

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So here is the layout of the shop. Our house is a little small and no room for a pool table, so that is what is going in the game room. We thought about rebuilding our house at some point, so I want to be able to convert the game room into living quarters if the need arises. Oh, and we might add a theater area in the game room too.

Of course I need room to work my wood projects during the winter, so that's what the wood shop is for.

And of course the most important area is for my cars and other toys..

 
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taumac

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Wow that's going to be some project. One idea I have which I thought of is to make bathroom bigger. You can bring that bottom wall down to meet wood shop. I think then you can put small kitchen, microwave, washer/ dryer and table to take break. I think this will be nice to keep all that stuff clean and out of shop atmosphere. You might already be doing that but first thing I thought of.
 
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gogolf0401

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Wow that's going to be some project. One idea I have which I thought of is to make bathroom bigger. You can bring that bottom wall down to meet wood shop. I think then you can put small kitchen, microwave, washer/ dryer and table to take break. I think this will be nice to keep all that stuff clean and out of shop atmosphere. You might already be doing that but first thing I thought of.
That's an idea. Great thing about interior walls is that they can be moved if desired[emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
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gogolf0401

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So here are some design ideas for the shop. This includes the car shop, wood shop and game room.




Wood shop


Game Room with bar, pool table, theater screen


 
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gogolf0401

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so here's where I want to put the shop.. but unfortunately I have a 100 year old grainery in the way..

 
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metalhead140

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Looks great! Have you considered more door for getting cars through so that you don't need to do as much maneuvering in and out?
 

yaidunno

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Glad to see the grainery being saved. Looks like you'll have a great area to work and relax in.
 
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gogolf0401

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Yes I did save the old grainery and was able to get the shop started. Been very busy but will update this soon with pics and details.

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gogolf0401

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So, finally have a little time to update my build.
Here are some pictures of moving the grainery.

Had to get the building in the air so a trailer could be backed under it.



Original foundation was 100 year old logs and some stones. Amazing what they did back in the day..



Slid the trailer underneath



Just about lost it a couple times...



Sitting at its new home. Shot my deer from the 2nd floor this year. I guess it doubles as a new deer stand ;-)

 
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gogolf0401

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So now that the grainery is out of the way, excavation can begin!



There was almost a 4' difference in elevation from corner to opposite corner! Needless to say it took a lot of fill! Lucky for me the pit is only 2 miles away..

Excavation of the pad, complete!



Setting the holding tank



digging the water line from the house well to the shop which is 300+ feet away!





7-8' deep to make sure to get below frost! Looks like a canyon when standing in it.

 
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gogolf0401

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Finally construction can begin!

4 man crew and 4 days

Day 1
3-ply glu-laminated finger joined treated posts 6' in the ground
posts every 8' (was worried about this but they have trusses every 4')
40x88 is the size with 14' walls





Day 2
2x6 wall girts
2x4 roof purlins on edge every 24"
trusses 4' oc
I decided on scissor trusses for added height inside



Day 3
Roof on
they even place a post just for the walk door to make it solid!
2' overhang on all 4 sides. Careful of doing this on a shorter building... it can tend to look a bit like a mushroom ;-)



Day 4
house wrap. Mainly so the spray foam has something to stick to in case I need to remove a damaged panel some day. Good to think ahead!



complete!
They use a color matched all steel framed walk door which is nice



About a week later I got my overhead door. 12'x12' 3" thick insulated

 
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gogolf0401

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Now time to bring more fill inside to prepare for concrete but first is 2" thick perimeter foam 2' down to keep the slab insulated

 
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gogolf0401

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After the ground is all level and packed, time to plumb my bathroom. I got this quoted at around $1500.. I ended up doing it myself for less than $100. I planned for a shower, sink, urinal, toilet, floor drain, shop sink and washer/dryer. Hey, I just might need to live in this thing someday :thumbup:

 
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gogolf0401

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So I decided to run the tubes for in-floor heat. Even if I don't use it at least I have it if I want to in the future, or if I ever sell the place it might increase the value.. maybe.

So I need to insulate the floor. Some say you don't need to insulate the inner-most floor since the cold can't really penetrate that far in. They also claim the ground can act as additional heat storage. I decided I didn't want to heat the earth.

So, next is poly and then 2" foam. I got a great deal at big orange for their Formular 250 rigid foam sheets. Make sure to go with 25 PSI for under slab and perimeter.



So first poly and then the foam



I also decided to install a floor drain. I don't have pics but I dug a 6 foot hole just outside the shop and ran 2" pvc from my drain to that pit. I filled the pit with a couple yards of 2"+ rock and covered it with garden fabric to keep the dirt from filling in around the rocks too bad.

You can see the wood form here for the drain. The PVC is **** up against the form, so after the concrete is poured I can knock the form out and the pipe will be exposed. Then I just need to use some quikrete to make a sloped grade inside the drain to the hole.



foam is all down. Now ready to start laying the pex

 
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gogolf0401

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Time for pex!

So I found LoopCAD and they had a free trial, so I took advantage and designed my layout. I researched and learned that it is best to keep each loop as close to the same length as possible (300ft is recommended), so it took me a few iterations but I got it pretty close.



I know guys that lay pex very fast and very sloppy, I figured what's the point to the CAD design if you don't follow it. So I was very meticulous and followed the design to a T. I built a simple spacer to keep my runs 1' apart. It worked very well to staple the pex to the foam. I rented the stapler from blue ridge, which is where I got the pex. Blue Ridge has LoopCAD and will do a layout for you for free if you order your pex from them. I did that as well but ended up going with my design instead. It took a couple days to lay the pex. Make sure you finalize your design before you order the pex to reduce waste and save money by getting the correct combination of lengths of pex.



My best routing design made the manifold locations not on an outer wall (interior walls), so I had to come up with a way to support my manifolds so I could pressure test everything before and during the concrete pour.

I ended up driving 2 stakes through the foam and into the ground. To that I mounted a 2x6 with holes drilled for the pex to come through and keep things organized. I used some small 90 degree PVC elbows for where the pex comes out of the concrete for protection and to keep the pex in order.



Here are my 3 manifolds for my 3 zones. 1 zone for the larger shop area, 1 for the woodshop and 1 for the bath and game room.



I suggest pressurizing your zones well before concrete and fix any leaks at the manifold. I also suggest pressurizing the lines right before the concrete starts to pour, that way if they puncture a line you will know and might have time to fix it. I'd buy the parts needed to splice a pex line to fix a leak ahead of time in case something like this happens. Otherwise you will just have to live with a loop not working. Depending on the size of your zone this could be 50% of your room!



I went with rebar every 2'. I forget the diameter off hand. Make sure they sit the rebar on chairs if you do it like I did to keep the rebar more in the middle of the slab instead of at the bottom.

I decided to go with 5" of concrete.



One thing I would recommend is getting some plastic wrap (Menards) and wrapping the bottom part of your pex at the manifolds to keep the concrete off it all.. they are messy.

The relief cuts were put in at approx 8-10' sections. No need to worry about hitting the pex since it is at the bottom of the concrete and they only cut down like an inch and a half.
 
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gogolf0401

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West central MN
I rented a trencher and ran 190' of power cable from my power pole to the west wall about mid way in the shop. I installed a 200A service box to make sure I'll have enough for whatever I want. Unfortunately I don't have 3-phase running past my place, so I'll have to keep everything single with a 3-phase converter if needed.

 
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gogolf0401

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So... I'm cheap and didn't want to hire the building crew to install windows for me. I think they charge like $400 per window installed. So, the local lumberyard closed its doors a year or so before I moved to the place I'm at. Lucky for me they had an auction and I grabbed up like 9 brand new windows. Some were like $10 which is awesome.



I used 2x6 board to match the outer wall girts to frame in the windows.
This pic doesn't show the window installed, because obviously I installed the windows from the outside. I used 1/4" plywood to fasten the framing to the girts. Seemed to work well.




I wasn't exactly sure what to do on this end wall since I wanted a window but didn't want to disturb the diagonal bracing.



I ended up cutting the bracing and adding another above the window. It may not have been needed, but oh well..



I don't have any good pictures but to build out the window sill to the inside I built a 2x6 box which fits around the window and fastened it to the framing by using a kreg. Worked great. One thing I did is ripped the 2x6's down just a little so the surface would be flush to the poles. This is needed when installing inner wall girts.

Also, I needed to loosen the outside steel for where the windows went, cut the opening and slide the windows from the bottom up into the hole and then install the j-channel around the outside window opening. This was no easy job! But worth the savings to me... got pretty good at it after 11 windows!
 
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gogolf0401

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I deliberated for a few weeks on what to do for wall insulation. I finally decided to go with spray foam. I liked the idea of how well it seals things up and supposedly how efficient it is. It costs about 3 times as much as compared to fiberglass roll since you have to hire someone to spray it and the material is just expensive. I opted for 2.5".

First I needed to figure out how I was going to cap off the top of the wall to keep the spay insulation from going into my soffit and how to keep my ceiling insulation from falling down into the walls.



So I bought some 4x8' 1/8" hardboard from the hardware store and ripped it down to fit the opening. I just stapled it down.



The job took a day and it was just one guy.



Make sure to put down plastic or paper to protect your floor.. There is overspray and you have to scrape it off if it gets on something. I planned on coating my floor with something, so I needed to keep it clean.

 
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gogolf0401

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Next we had to prepare for ceiling insulation. To get to that point we needed to install a 2x4 fake bottom truss on the end walls to match with the bottom of the trusses so the ceiling steel has something to fasten to.

Next you have to install baffles to keep the insulation from falling into your soffit as well as provide a path for outside air to vent the attic.



I went with foam baffles. It took a long time to get them all up. 44 baffles total and you have to cut around the trusses and tape seams and such. I stapled them in.



Next is poly to keep the insulation off the steel. This was recommended because I guess the cellulose is treated with chemicals which can eat through steel given enough time.. Not sure I believe it but figured I'd do it anyway to keep the insulation dry (vapor barrier).

I think I bought 4 mil poly in 20'x100' rolls. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO PUT IT UP WITHOUT CUTTING! You have to staple this stuff to the bottom of the trusses and it is a pain in the **** to get it straight, have no sags and keep it from ripping through the staples because of the weight. We tried but had to cut the roll in half so the width is 10' instead of 20'. Still a big effort but much more manageable. I recommend a hammer style stapler and someone with good aim ;-)





Tape your seams! Also not easy because it is hard to get tape to stick. I actually had the best luck using packing tape. I had to wipe the plastic clean otherwise the tape wouldn't stick because the plastic was dusty.
 
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gogolf0401

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Next is the ceiling steel. I went for the inside grade white steel since it is cheaper but perfectly good enough for inside.

First you need to install j-channel around the entire perimeter as well as two going down the middle. I bought 10' pieces and used an air stapler to fasten them.







As you can see in the above pick.. by dad's breath is showing.. it is December in Minnesota.. it's getting cold.

Since it is cold I needed to build an insulated box with a heat lamp to keep my water line from freezing.



RENT A LIFT! It makes it so much easier to put the steel up. This stuff gets heavy after a while. I bought 16' sheets and screwed it into the trusses. It's a good idea to use your clutch on your drill to keep from over-tightening your screws.



I disconnected my overhead door bracing so I could install the plastic and steel. I cut a 1/8" slot for the angle iron to slip into for a clean look.





I'm not doing the entire 88' with steel, so we put a 2x4 on a truss so we had something for the j-channel to fasten to as well as the future wall.



 
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gogolf0401

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So I still need to get the game room ceiling in before I can start heating this place!

We decided to put in pre-finished tongue and groove pine in the game room for a nice look. Again.. seemed to take forever to put up. I stapled it in to the trusses.





 

jp828108

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Your build really appears to be coming along nicely. Have enjoyed reading it up to this point. I would love to do a 40 by 88, but bought a place with a 30 by 40 already built. I keep trying to talk the other half into selling it and building a barn with a nice apartment on family property, but she won't go for it. Congrats on the awesome build so far.
 
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gogolf0401

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West central MN
finally ready for insulation..

I decided to go with cellulose because I was doing the blowing and I hate being itchy with fiberglass :willy_nil

I ended up with like 100+ bags and I put in 15" to get a good R-value.
Using the calculations on the bag I ended up needing way more.. So keep that in mind. I blame the blower I rented from big orange. The first blower wasn't all that good and it took forever. I got a different blower the following weekend to finish up the job and it went 1.5 times faster.

Big orange will rent you a blower for free if you buy a certain amount of insulation, so keep that in mind. Not sure about Lowes but Menards doesn't rent it to you for free.



I used a 2x6 laid across the rafters and sat on that while blowing down towards the soffit area. You have to get down as close as you can to make sure you don't just get a drift of insulation in front of the soffit. You do not want to put your body weight on the steel as it will most likely bend and look like ****. I also recommend a ventilator mask and goggles. You don't want that dust in your eyes and lungs!

 
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gogolf0401

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Now time for some heat!

I decided to get a 150,000 btu LP forced air ceiling unit from a HVAC supply store. I had to go through an HVAC installer to get the unit and venting since the store only sells to businesses. I did this since the cost was cheaper than anywhere else.

I will have the in-floor heat going some day and I figure I can keep the floor at the minimum temp possible and use the forced air unit to bring the temp up in a hurry when I am out there.





I still had the man lift from installing the ceiling steel and I used that to lift this big heater up in place. Believe me you'll want a lift, this thing is not light!

Before blowing insulation in the attic be sure to prepare for your heater mounts. This unit attaches to the ceiling via two long threaded rods. I screwed a 2x6 across the rafters, and ran those rods through the ceiling and through the 2x6 and then fastened them using a washer and nut. You'll want to hang the heater before insulation so you can adjust the heater so it sits level.

I found it odd that the heater only mounted using 2 rods... because of this the heater would rotate back a bit.. so I used some left over angle iron and screwed that to the ceiling and to the bottom of the heater to make it sit level and keep it from swinging.
 
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gogolf0401

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So, I planned to use the same steel used on the ceiling for the walls. I wanted a finished look, and leaving it foam doesn't do that. I also figure the white walls will make it nice and bright once I get lights in there. Not to mention easy to clean!

The first step to wall steel is to get inside wall girts put up. The outer wall girts during construction were 2x6 but I saw no real value in going that big on the inside, so I opted to just use 16' 2x4s. I staggered the seams for additional strength.

I used a 1/4" spacer on the floor to keep the first girt up so I didn't have to use treated. I cut 2 3' spacers out of scrap 2x4 and used those to space the girts as I went up the wall. Worked great. Remember when I boxed out the windows with 2x6? Well at that time I mentioned I ripped the 2x6 boxes down so once installed they would be flush with the posts. This step was extremely important if you want to put up wall girts like I am doing.



Now before you put up steel, you have to decide how you are going to do your electrical. I didn't know of a good way to do the electrical since I didn't know how to run the wires behind the steel. The only idea I had was to staple the romex to the top of the inner wall girts, but didn't really like that idea. I also didn't like the idea of figuring out switch and outlet boxes and having to cut the steel before installation. So, you've guessed it, I decided on conduit. At least for the shop that is. I am planning on sheetrock and T&G wood in the bathroom and game room, so I will run the electric wire in the walls there. In the shop I like the idea of being able to access the wiring easy and be able to add a circuit with ease if needed.
 
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