******'s comeback from the setback

[cretin]

Hi guys,
I haven't been here very much for a long time, but I'm back. I had a thread on my garage before, but didn't really keep up with it because it wasn't a build, just moving into a new garage. 2020 has changed that for me. Unfortunately, on Aug 12, a wildfire broke out in my area, and immediately exploded into a 100 acre fire, and grew for days after that. My garage was one of the casualties of the fire. It burned down the first night of the fire. Luckily, my home was untouched, I'm very lucky in that respect. Some of my neighbors weren't so lucky and lost everything.

So, anyway, I figured I would start a thread on the rebuild. I have never had a construction project, so I thought this would be a good place to ask all my dumb questions. I have also never dealt with dealing with the aftermath of a fire, so I have questions about things like the concrete slab that remains.

Well, I'll start this thread off with some photos of what the inside of the garage used to look like, and then the fire damage.

So here are some before photos.

 

[rixtrix1]

So sorry to hear of your loss; were cars and equipment lost, too? Best wishes!

 

[cretin]

Here is the aftermath of the fire.

 

[cretin]

And this is where I'm currently at with the cleanup effort.

The plan is to finish the cleanup, pressure wash the concrete, so I can make a decision where to start. That's when my questions will begin.

 

[cretin]

So sorry to hear of your loss; were cars and equipment lost, too? Best wishes!

Thank you. Yes, I lost my '54 Chevy, and '23 Model T roadster, as far as cars. And I lost all my tools and equipment. Along with alot of vintage parts.
The vintage stuff that was lost is what gets to me most, and it's not so much that I lost them. It's that they don't exist anymore, more like the world lost them. But, it is what it is, just gotta march on.

 

[ericm]

Ouch, that's painful. Thanks for sharing.

We had a large fire near us this summer. I spent a couple days with the fire approaching doing last minute stuff to try to protect the house and 130 year old barn. Until the fire slowed down I was convinced we were going to lose everything.

I'm in the middle of planning a shop, and we had the house exterior renovated a couple years ago. WUI area fire codes have improved greatly in the last 10 or so years. It does mean that you will be restricted in a few ways, most notably finding code compatible roof vents that keep embers out.

But you can go farther than code. For example I'm going with boxed in eaves. Eaves with exposed rafter tails ignite more readily, and the vents in the boxed in part admit fewer embers. (ember entry is the primary way that buildings ignite). Another thing you can do is put in roof sprinklers. Current research is that misters around the perimiter to protect the eaves works better than sprinklers on the top of the roof. Some insurers give discounts for roof sprinklers. Of course you need a water system to run the sprinklers and a way to turn them on at the right time. Leaving them running could drain the water tanks that the fire fighters use. We made a sign for the fire fighters who would hopefully be defending our place so they'd see the sprinkler valve.

Roof sprinkler info: https://www.mbartek.com/weeds-info

 

[Jeff Ivers]

Really sorry to hear of your loss. Every time I hear of one of these wildfires, I hope and pray it doesn't take out someone's shop, tools and collector cars as I always think such a loss would be worse than losing a house because of the replacability issue. Hope you find a new project and get your tools replaced soon.

 

[LXCam]

That’s heartbreaking bud. Good luck on the rebuild and all though you haven’t asked any questions yet I’d suggest (if it’s in the budget), demo the foundation and start fresh.

 

[ZRX61]

Pretty sure I've driven past your place since the fire, West of 3 Points on the south side of the road? I'm East of you near AVC on the valley floor. Watched that fire from my yard.

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

Oh man, SO sorry to see this. A heartbreaker for sure.

Did you lose the Task Force truck too? It was/is a nice big window cab too. Ugh.

 

[captain14]

Fire is a horrible event in anyone’s life. There have been several members here who have had garage fires and lost lots of tools and equipment. They have documented here in threads doing the cleanup and rebuilds.

 

[pancho400cid]

Wow. That is terrible. Sorry for your severe setback. Good luck on the re-build as said.

 

[mdkcal]

Wow sorry to see that. I cruise thru that area all the time. A friend of mine lost his shop in the Santa Cruz area this year too. Being that you're in LA County, I doubt building & safety will let you rebuild with the existing foundation. New codes are ridiculous.

 

[cretin]

Ouch, that's painful. Thanks for sharing.

We had a large fire near us this summer. I spent a couple days with the fire approaching doing last minute stuff to try to protect the house and 130 year old barn. Until the fire slowed down I was convinced we were going to lose everything.

I'm in the middle of planning a shop, and we had the house exterior renovated a couple years ago. WUI area fire codes have improved greatly in the last 10 or so years. It does mean that you will be restricted in a few ways, most notably finding code compatible roof vents that keep embers out.

But you can go farther than code. For example I'm going with boxed in eaves. Eaves with exposed rafter tails ignite more readily, and the vents in the boxed in part admit fewer embers. (ember entry is the primary way that buildings ignite). Another thing you can do is put in roof sprinklers. Current research is that misters around the perimiter to protect the eaves works better than sprinklers on the top of the roof. Some insurers give discounts for roof sprinklers. Of course you need a water system to run the sprinklers and a way to turn them on at the right time. Leaving them running could drain the water tanks that the fire fighters use. We made a sign for the fire fighters who would hopefully be defending our place so they'd see the sprinkler valve.

Roof sprinkler info: https://www.mbartek.com/weeds-info

Glad, you ended up alright. A few people have mentioned the sprinklers. Something to look into. I'm on a well, so I'd also have to figure out a generator solution. The house lost power right when I evacuated, so it wouldn't have helped much. I suppose a gravity feed situation is possible too, but volume would be limited.

Really sorry to hear of your loss. Every time I hear of one of these wildfires, I hope and pray it doesn't take out someone's shop, tools and collector cars as I always think such a loss would be worse than losing a house because of the replacability issue. Hope you find a new project and get your tools replaced soon.

yea, there is quite a bit that cant be replaced. I've had a few people tell me that in my situation it would almost have been better to lose the house instead of the garage. It's kind of true, but there is certainly something to be said about still having the place you lay your head.

That’s heartbreaking bud. Good luck on the rebuild and all though you haven’t asked any questions yet I’d suggest (if it’s in the budget), demo the foundation and start fresh.

Luckily it looks as though insurance is going to give me more than expected for the structure, so it may be in the budget. I definitely want to do it right. I'd hate to start from scratch, and make a mistake on the floor and be mad about it forever.

Pretty sure I've driven past your place since the fire, West of 3 Points on the south side of the road? I'm East of you near AVC on the valley floor. Watched that fire from my yard.

Yea, that sounds like me. I watched it from a friends house 3 miles down from my place.

Oh man, SO sorry to see this. A heartbreaker for sure.

Did you lose the Task Force truck too? It was/is a nice big window cab too. Ugh.

It is a heartbreaker, but at least i didn't lose everything, and there is a sense of excitement in building a new garage.
The truck, and the '51 Chevy both belong to friends of mine, so it's lucky tghat they are both ok. The truck just lost its suspension bushings, and some plastic pieces on its engine. The '51 just has paint and some window damage.

Fire is a horrible event in anyone’s life. There have been several members here who have had garage fires and lost lots of tools and equipment. They have documented here in threads doing the cleanup and rebuilds.

It is pretty horrible. It's so unforgiving, it just takes everything. I'll definitely have to do some searching around here.

Wow. That is terrible. Sorry for your severe setback. Good luck on the re-build as said.

Thank you, hopefully the rebuild will go pretty smoothly.

Wow sorry to see that. I cruise thru that area all the time. A friend of mine lost his shop in the Santa Cruz area this year too. Being that you're in LA County, I doubt building & safety will let you rebuild with the existing foundation. New codes are ridiculous.

I'm sorry to hear about your friends place. The fires were insane this year. I wish him luck moving forward as well.

I'm told it can be a little bit easier here as its unincorporated LA County, but who knows. Like I said, this is a first for me in fire damage and a construction project, so itll all be a learning experience.

 

[captain14]

******

3 threads that’s come to mind about their garage fire are BlueBomber and drmarkr

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=368034

His fire was several years ago and his journey is in this Thread

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=436390

The fire has its own thread

There are 2-3 others but I don’t remember the GJ members names

 

[cretin]

******

3 threads that’s come to mind about their garage fire are BlueBomber and drmarkr

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=368034

His fire was several years ago and his journey is in this Thread

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=436390

The fire has its own thread

There are 2-3 others but I don’t remember the GJ members names

Thank you, I'll check those out.

I made good progress on cleanup the last two days. Hopefully after tomorrow, I'll be ready to pressure wash the concrete and get a good look at whats going on there.

 

[ZRX61]

Wow sorry to see that. I cruise thru that area all the time. A friend of mine lost his shop in the Santa Cruz area this year too. Being that you're in LA County, I doubt building & safety will let you rebuild with the existing foundation. New codes are ridiculous.

There was a fire in Calabasas/Malibu years ago. One house that burned was near the corner of Mulholland & Stokes Canyon. All that remained was the concrete foundation.
I just noticed last month that they finally rebuilt the place after over a decade.


34° 6'15.24"N 118°42'1.92"W on Google Earth.


There's been a few new HUGE houses built just down the road which may have spurred the rebuild.

 

[BORING HOP YARD]

So sorry for your loss, this last fire season was very bad in Oregon. We had a big fire very close to us. There was three zones 1 "get ready" 2 "go" and 3 "you should be gone all ready."
We were in level 1 for about 2 weeks with level 2 across the street.
I know the fear of having my shop burn but I don't know what you must be going through.
I hope the best for you and thank you for sharing.

 

[cretin]

Well, I don’t know anything about concrete, but I’m going to assume that this concrete is bad.

Looks like it’s about time to start shopping around for concrete.

 

[cretin]

So sorry for your loss, this last fire season was very bad in Oregon. We had a big fire very close to us. There was three zones 1 "get ready" 2 "go" and 3 "you should be gone all ready."
We were in level 1 for about 2 weeks with level 2 across the street.
I know the fear of having my shop burn but I don't know what you must be going through.
I hope the best for you and thank you for sharing.

Thank you. Yea, this fire season was bad all over. I have a friend in Oregon, who I checked up on. Luckily nothing was near him.
I'm glad it turned out ok for you too.

 

[ZRX61]

Well, I don’t know anything about concrete, but I’m going to assume that this concrete is bad.

Looks like it’s about time to start shopping around for concrete.

Last time I tried to get some concrete work done in the AV I gave up after two years & just did it myself. Only one guy showed up during that time to give a quote. It rapidly became obvious that there was no way in hell I'd give him the job after he listed all the short cuts & half assery he had planned for the job... among which was adding so much diesel to the mix that it would likely have been flammable.

 

[Bob Heine]

Well, I don’t know anything about concrete, but I’m going to assume that this concrete is bad.

Looks like it’s about time to start shopping around for concrete.

******, I think you're right. The heat of the fire caused the surface spalling but the heat probably also expanded any gravel in the mix and worse, expanded the reinforcing steel even worse. If it doesn't fail right away, it's sure to fail when you try to bolt anything to it.

 

[LaneRover]

So sorry to hear of the fire and glad you have a place to lay your head! Best of luck with your re-build!

A friend in Northern California who had quite a collection of vintage dirt bikes came home one day after a lunch with friends to find the fire department there putting out a fire at his barn - old wiring was the culprit there. It definitely *****.

 

[cretin]

So sorry to hear of the fire and glad you have a place to lay your head! Best of luck with your re-build!

A friend in Northern California who had quite a collection of vintage dirt bikes came home one day after a lunch with friends to find the fire department there putting out a fire at his barn - old wiring was the culprit there. It definitely *****.

Oh man, I think that's probably worse than what happened to me. Once i knew there was a wild fire, I knew there was a possibility of my stuff burning. Just coming hope to the complete surprise of it must be awful.

I learned that there is a county sponsored cleanup program that will clean up fire debris, and they will remove the damaged foundation, so that will be a huge help for me.

 

[Ford52PU]

so very sorry for your loss. Those pictures are heartbraking. I'm glad you are safe, things can be replaced but people cant. Good luck to you.

 

[cretin]

Sadly, I still have no updates.
I’m still waiting for my debris removal, which I’m hoping will be any day now.
In the meantime I’m trying to get quotes on the new construction.

If anyone has a recommendation for concrete contractors in the Lancaster, Palmdale, Castaic, or Santa Clarita areas, I’d like to know.

Also, if anyone has had any experience with Allied buildings, I’d like to hear about it.
I’m currently waiting to hear back from them for a estimate for the steel building I’m trying to build.


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

 

[cretin]

Also, I did have to modify my original plan for the garage due to local regulations. Anything over 1000 sq ft needs a sprinkler system, and a Fire Department use only water tank that has to be a minimum of 7,500 gal. That would eat up alot of my insurance money, so I can't do that.

Therefore, instead of doing the 30'x50' shop of 1,500 sq ft I originally wanted, I am trying to do a 30'x33' of 990 sq ft, with a 30'x17' lean to in the back.
The lean to does not count as square footage as long as it is a different roof line as the garage structure.

 

[georgiadave]

Sadly, I still have no updates.
I’m still waiting for my debris removal, which I’m hoping will be any day now.
In the meantime I’m trying to get quotes on the new construction.

If anyone has a recommendation for concrete contractors in the Lancaster, Palmdale, Castaic, or Santa Clarita areas, I’d like to know.

Also, if anyone has had any experience with Allied buildings, I’d like to hear about it.
I’m currently waiting to hear back from them for a estimate for the steel building I’m trying to build.


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

Try Prestige Construction. They did concrete work for us in Santa Clarita. It was for handicap ramps. Not cheap, but did a fine job.

 

[cretin]

Try Prestige Construction. They did concrete work for us in Santa Clarita. It was for handicap ramps. Not cheap, but did a fine job.

I’ll look into them. Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

 

[cretin]

Well, I haven't updated in quite a while because there has been nothing to update unfortunately. After waiting for a while for my debris removal, I called to get an update after I had seen them doing it at other properties around me when they said I was supposed to be the first house. That's when they told me I was now ineligible for the debris removal program because I had cleaned up too much before I knew the program existed. Long story short, it was a battle for months, but I finally got them to do it. 10 months after the fire. But at least it's done now.

However, sadly for me, the building prices have skyrocketed in that time. The building I got a quote on in February is now $11,000 more expensive. But it is what it is. So, now I'm back to where I was last time I updated here and am getting concrete quotes. Hopefully I'll be getting started soon. I'm tired of not having a garage.

 

[Geoff289]

Greetings from Australia. I just stumbled on your thread - we're in lockdown here (again) so I spend a lot of time on this forum. That's awful losing all that to a fire but I admire your attitude and wish you well for getting back up and running.

 

[aqr81]

******, I found your post and was heartbroken to read of the events and view the pics. I can't imagine that experience you went through and it's awesome to see how you are handling it. I'm in the central valley about 1.5 - 2 hrs north of you. We aren't in a wild fire area but the heat makes it seem like a fire is roaring outside. I know your pain with the price increases you mentioned, it's ridiculous how everything has skyrocket. I'm in the process of building a shop at my son's house and fortunately are closer to the end than the start but it has been far more costly than originally anticipated. I am looking forward to following your build and again applaud you for your attitude and tenacity; you will be an inspiration to some here I'm certain.

 

[cretin]

Thank you guys for the kind words.
I figure I've gotta handle it no matter what, so I may as well look at it very matter of factually and make it easier on myself. What's done is done, so just gotta march forward.

Money outside of the garage fund in a bit tight right now, so things are a little bit on hold. I need to get out to see the guy I'm planning on buying my building from to see some examples in person. Hopefully I can do that soon.
The dreamer in me hopes prices can go down in the time. The realist in me knows better.

 

[cretin]

Thank you guys for the kind words.
I figure I've gotta handle it no matter what, so I may as well look at it very matter of factually and make it easier on myself. What's done is done, so just gotta march forward.

Money outside of the garage fund is a bit tight right now, so things are a little bit on hold. I need to get out to see the guy I'm planning on buying my building from to see some examples in person. Hopefully I can do that soon.
The dreamer in me hopes prices can go down in that time. The realist in me knows better.

 

[cretin]

Well, I have decided on a building, and put a deposit on it. So, Hopefully it won't be too long before I have some actual progress.
So, now I am starting the permit process, which I hope will go pretty quickly. My permits are supposed to be expedited since I was affected by wildfire.

 

[Bob Heine]

******, congratulations and I'm looking forward to Comeback Construction.

 

[cretin]

I haven't been on here for a while, because unfortunately, I have no updates.
I am currently in Permit Hell, but hopefully things will happen in the near future.

But, in the meantime, maybe someone can offer some insight to what I'm dealing with currently.
I'll try to keep the description as brief as possible.

So, I wanted to locate the underground wiring that went to my old garage. The idea being that I would pull the electrical out in a new location so I could set up some power for a temporary work space until the new garage is up.
I know the approximate location of where the electrical came up to go to the garage. However, I don't know how much of it may have been torn out during the debris removal process.

The panel is on the opposite side of the house that the garage was. so, the wiring goes down from the panel, and I'm assuming into the ground right there, and then under the house.
In order to locate the wiring, I bought a cheap underground wire locator off Amazon. Using that, I quickly found some galvanized pipe/conduit. I was lucky enough to locate it right where there was a coupler.
The plan was to dig around that coupler, cut a section out of the conduit past the coupler, pull the wires out of the conduit beyond, and then use that wire in a new section of conduit to set up the temporary power.

I began digging around the conduit, and about 7-8 inches to the side and about 1 inch deeper, I found another galvanized pipe/conduit.
They both look the same, and are 1 inch in diameter. I hooked up my wire locator again to see if I could identify which was the one I'm looking for. I was getting a signal from both conduits somehow. I'm not sure if they are both electrical conduits, or if one could maybe be a water line. I decided to start digging out the other line till I found a coupler. I've dug out 12 feet so far and still have yet to find a coupler. Don't conduit sections come in 10 foot lengths? Are water pipes different lengths? Is there any way I can differentiate between the two?

I'm completely new to all this stuff. Is there any way to figure out if they indeed are conduit, short of digging till i get to an end?

A little bit of background on my property. Apparently the Gentleman who owned my home years ago was a frugal German man, who did things his own way, and without permitting. I learned that he was living in the house, but on another part of the property was building his home to retire in. Once he built the house, he split the property, moved, and sold the house that now is mine.
During the debris removal, a section of water pipe was removed, and that's how I learned that water pipes from my home connected to that retirement home he built. Now I'm thinking there is a possibility that he ran some electrical over there too. And, maybe both of these are conduit, one going to what was my garage, and maybe one to the neighbors.

So, is there any way to figure this out without digging everything up?

 

[BORING HOP YARD]

How far would you have to go to dig it up?
How temporary would it be?
I would be very careful in investing in anything the previous owner has touched.
A couple of pictures would be helpful, I'm having a hard time envisioning the situation.
More than happy to help.
Nice to see you post again, thank you.

 

[cretin]

How far would you have to go to dig it up?
How temporary would it be?
I would be very careful in investing in anything the previous owner has touched.
A couple of pictures would be helpful, I'm having a hard time envisioning the situation.
More than happy to help.
Nice to see you post again, thank you.

Thank you. I can't wait till I'm posting about actually building the garage!

If I were to have to dig to where the electrical came out to the garage before, I'd have to dig about 45-50 feet, and if I were to dig until I was sure one was going to the neighbors house, I would have to dig a minimum of probably 75 feet.

The work space will be pretty temporary. Maybe a couple of months. The main reason for doing it is so I can use my welder for a little bit of light sheetmetal work, and doing an exhaust for the F100 that's in one of the photos. My dad's electrician friend is going to set up the plug for me.

Here are a few photos, if you need a photo of something else, please let me know.
The first photo is the first one I found with the coupler.
Second photo shows the 12 foot trench I dug trying to find the coupler on the second one I found.
And the third photo shows the relationship of where they are in relation to where the garage used to be. The back wall of the garage was right where there is now that wood fence. The side of the neighbors house is about 45 past the fence.

 

[racer-john]

Advise digging to the end to identify what they are or arn't.