S-K Tear drop ratchet

[redbarron57]

Ohh man, some real haters on here. Probably some pure collecters as well who want nothing more than a new piece of jewlry. But did anyone ever stop to think that auto techs were not the only ones who use hand tools. You know i feel like the 40 tooth round head has a place in every techs box. I think the x frame wrench is not a gimmick tool. 1.7 deg swing arc is no joke. My SK tools go up against truck brand tools every day and they hold their own. However SK does loose sales because they do not have a fine tooth ratchet. Proto, armstrong and wright all have their 80 tooth desighn SK needs to get with the program. And you need to remanufacture your g pro series here in the states. I love my sk tools mainly for the fit and finish. Design wise its just like your competitors.

 

[Adam.C]

Calling me a hater is a 14yr olds response to some pretty serious accusations unaddressed here. The claim was that an SK ratchet lasted 30 years. Is that without ever having it's guts replaced? That's the implication. If so great- show us the test data that says its carrying the same torque as a new model. And what is that torque again? Snap On has published numbers for its ratchets. That's who you will inevitably compete against. And that's the point I'm trying to make here; You can't win an argument or a customer with hype. You need facts and data. There is none in this thread.

I have absolutely nothing against SK. I'd like to see the company successful, that's why I'm wasting my Saturday morning typing this. I see very little technical justification for SK fandom. And contrary to one post above, I see a lot of SK fans here. What makes this company's tools stand out? I never see analysis or data. I suspect it's nostalgia. But how far can that take a company? And yet the guys who recommend Snap On are called kool aid drinkers. In a side by side comparison, one can justify the claim that Snap On is better. So who really are the kool aid drinkers? To compete, SK has to produce a tool that compares favorably with the competition on paper.

In a recent thread, I compared US made combination wrenches. I looked at wrench test results, specs for wrenches, and torque reqts for bolts we'd most likely encounter. Frankly, SK didn't fare well. They are short wrenches, and their open ends were thicker than everyone else's. If short is what you are after, SK aren't the shortest. Their long pattern wrenches aren't particularly long (I only looked at 13mm- an oft used size on US and German made vehicles).

On paper, the new X wrench looks like a solution to a problem I don't have. I don't see who the target market for this product is. It also appears to create a host of new problems. Does anyone here seriously disagree? There are some really slim box ratchet wrenches out there for SK to compete with. There are some really cheap combination ratchets. Snap On's are very expensive, especially the hi performance models I have. And the ratchet mechanisms aren't user replaceable. EZRed has done very well making longer versions and flex head versions pretty cheap. I don't see how a short combo ratchet with a big box end and wide hips will fare well.

Modern auto mechanics want to be able to swap accessories on a transverse mounted engine without moving any other parts. They want to do front engine work on a V-6 without removing the radiator. And meanwhile, the use of 3D CAD packages by automotive manufacturers AND their suppliers means less space for the mechanic. Couple that with the ever lowering Hoodlines for fuel economy demands (this is old news really) and we end up with an extremely difficult vehicle to maintain. Other companies, including Snap On but not exclusively Snap On, are turning their attention to smaller, longer tools. Off the top of my head, that would be my advice to SK.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Well, here's my useless input and waste of space:

I think SK stuff is ugly. And I hate the green. It looks like their font should be on a factory that makes crackers circa 1892 in a dingy old building in the bad part of New York with child labor, 18 hour work days, uncomfortable shoes and bread lines.

 

[Adam.C]

Well, here's my useless input and waste of space:

I think SK stuff is ugly. And I hate the green. It looks like their font should be on a factory that makes crackers circa 1892 in a dingy old building in the bad part of New York with child labor, 18 hour work days, uncomfortable shoes and bread lines.

Interesting you bring that up. Other companies' packaging is significantly better. Snap On's empty packaging doubles as fairly serious in box storage and sells on ebay for sometimes serious money. I think Teng produces some nice looking packaging that doubles as tool storage after sale.

I don't share your disdain for SKs style. I think it has a cool retro American muscle car feel. But like the tools, I don't think SKs packaging would fare well in a side by side taste test.

Ya know, I saw a HF circular that compared their 72" box to a similarly sized classic KRA. The ad claimed the HF box had a greater load capacity. Know what? They were correct. The KRA casters limited the total load. HF was smart to go head to head with their competitors, engage their customers with factual data. Do a GJ search on SK, you get no such data. "I like it because Snap On *****" is not effective marketing.

The American auto industry reminds us, despite the very vocal support of US made items here (including my own) you can't survive on a COO comparison alone. You've got to compete head to head, produce a quality product that consumers want to buy.

 

[Jure]

SK?? cool..well few years ago buddy came from the states to visit me and brought me one of his spare ratchets,it was SK 45183. it was "ok" ratchet,nothing too nice (since people were talking on here how insane they are,to be honest i expected much more from SK) but anyway it was used..after a year or so it statred skipping gears,i wrote an email to great SK's customer service asking to buy a repair kit,after 5 days all they said was "sorry we dont ship outside of the US". LOL!!!! great! Then i said if they can shipp it to an US address (to by buddy,so he can shipp it to me) and they said "sorry we can ship to the original owner only". Thank god i never bought a brand new SK at ebay...and the only US brand i trust is Snap on since they can get warrantied here in europe.

 

[Jure]

Well, here's my useless input and waste of space:

I think SK stuff is ugly. And I hate the green. It looks like their font should be on a factory that makes crackers circa 1892 in a dingy old building in the bad part of New York with child labor, 18 hour work days, uncomfortable shoes and bread lines.

wait a second Sir!,how dare you to call it ugly??? Finish on them is above every "premium" US or Euro brand! here is one of my SK sockets (its 3/8 sae) and EVERY us Crapsman i have has 3 times better finish!

 

[Indexmill]

If I were SK Eric, I would stop posting here. Too much hate.

We all need to be just a little bit kinder to each other. Let's share with each other; not **** on each other.

 

[Fedwrench]

No body is forcing you guys to buy SK in any shape or form.

if you guys don't like SK, buy the tools you prefer. After all, they're your tools. However, if I like SK green my decision to buy SK isn't wrong just because you don't like them. :

It's nice to have a company rep to post about new products under development. Unfortunately, many don't receive a warm welcome so, they leave after awhile. Hell, even snap on dealers have quit posting here.

No tool brand is perfect. There's lots of criticism posted that seems to be made without actually using the tools which I guess is ok because everyone has an opinion, just don't forget to wipe.

 

[hangfirew8]

Adam, no one brought up kool aid drinking in this thread until you did. Yet you complain about being called one?

And it was SO that stole the patents. And you wanted something "new" and the x-beam IS new. But you want LED's???

You were the one who brought up 14 year olds, not Eric! Read your own posts.

-HF

 

[SMKS]

wait a second Sir!,how dare you to call it ugly??? Finish on them is above every "premium" US or Euro brand! here is one of my SK sockets (its 3/8 sae) and EVERY us Crapsman i have has 3 times better finish!

That's obviously a very, very old socket. Not a fair comparison. My guess would be decades old.

We know the new sockets don't look like that.

 

[kythri]

That's obviously a very, very old socket. Not a fair comparison. My guess would be decades old.

We know the new sockets don't look like that.

And if it's new production, why wasn't it warrantied? A single socket is not indicative of a systemic issue.

 

[SMKS]

And if it's new production, why wasn't it warrantied? A single socket is not indicative of a systemic issue.

You can tell it's not any kind of recent production because you can see it doesn't have off-corner engagement. They've had off-corner engagement for years.

 

[toddoky]

I own tons of Snap-on tools and a few SK tools and like them both for different reasons. Whether I ever buy another SK tool or not I have a great deal of respect for the company for producing USA made products, much more so than I do for the company CEO's and private equity firm owners who have sold the middle class of this country off to China over the last 30 years (Sears and Apex/Bain Capital are two of my favorites to **** on, but the list is long indeed). Nice work SK, you keep making enough money to remain profitable and keep our dollars here and I'll support you no matter what tool designs you decide to bring to market.

 

[Adam.C]

seriously? this is what you think sk should be? not working so well for the other "gimmick" sellers that specialize in the father's day type tools.

No, not serious. But if you are marketing a product in a marketplace full of similar products, you need to distinguish yourself somehow. SK could embrace old school. That's kinda where they are now. Not sure how well that's working for them tho. I'm guessing there's so much pressure from imported tools. Creating a "value" line of US made tools is next to impossible with HF, Sears and Gearwrench owning the bottom of the market.

In my personal opinion as a tool user and not a tool manufacturer or market insider, I think there is a hole in the market for niche made specialty tools. Koken may be best positioned. But even they haven't really filled the gaps I see. That's ONE idea for SK. I would be inclined to make a line of beautifully machined and finished low height sockets and a wide length range of super strong low height fine toothed ratchets for specialty tasks. I'd be all over the 2' long wrench market. I use the heck out of them and know many pro tech who do the same. That extra leverage really helps. Snap On doesn't make a flex head ratchet box wrench. I'd go after EZ Red, who only sell splines (I don't like splines - they make the box bigger). And EZ red's flex joints are clunky. Lot of room there for better materials and tighter design. EZ red are also not cheap and made in Chiwan. Surely SK can do better.

If you read all of my posts, I've got some fairly serious comparisons here with data SK could use (and that I'd be willing to share) that would provide at least one look at the competition they face, and more importantly for engineers, the criteria I use to rate tools. The more people who do that, the better.

But to date, I've received no technical response to anything I've written here in this thread, and no PMs asking for my data. That's a problem with the GJ community on this particular forum. Lots of emotion, not much fact or analysis.

 

[OutsideMachinist]

Doesn't matter what they do some people will still complain it isn't snap on. When we are talking about what color it is we have really gone off the deep end. Since when is the target demographic for sk Monk or catering to your irrational ocd/adhd/ fashion sense or whatever the case may be.

If you wanna argue function then sure thats fine. Round head ratchets are too bulky to fit in tight spaces. If that is the only concern then everyone should use armstrong or matco ratchets exclusively right?

Yes they should be constantly improving, but it is pretty expensive to make new tooling. Theres enough gimmick and crappy tools already.

 

[PJNJ]

This thread has really gone off the rails. It seems just about every time someone starts a thread about SK, Gearwrench, Armstrong, Mac, Matco, Craftsman, etc. products or that one of them is bringing out a new product it turns into a "it *****" bashing thread by members who don't like that company or their products. Then someone brings up "Koolaid" and the accusations fly.

And Adam I don't think SK is going to be contacting you for your opinion, data or engineering expertise any time soon. They probably have enough capable engineers, designers and market people to get along for a little while. Plus you didn't exactly endear yourself to SK Eric.

Turned into a real shooting match.

 

[fasteddie313]

Next time I'm in the city I'm looking for Xbeams...

I have straight non reversible non fles ratcheting wrenches, and reversing etc.. The ones I grab first are the strights..

To me ratcheting wrenches are most useful in tight spaces, and the straight non reversing ones are the best in tight places.. If it's not a tight place its sockets-extensions-ratchets...

Just yesterday an 8mm straight ratcheting wrench saved me proly 2 hours over what it would have taken me to do it turn by turn with a standard wrench, removing AC components from my Porsche.. In that case a 0 offset ratcheting gave me the MOST clearance for sure which is usually the case in my experience..

 

[thesilverone]

bring back the roto head!!!

 

[Jure]

And if it's new production, why wasn't it warrantied? A single socket is not indicative of a systemic issue.

SK wont warrantie it since i'm in europe...

 

[Adam.C]

This thread has really gone off the rails. It seems just about every time someone starts a thread about SK, Gearwrench, Armstrong, Mac, Matco, Craftsman, etc. products or that one of them is bringing out a new product it turns into a "it *****" bashing thread by members who don't like that company or their products. Then someone brings up "Koolaid" and the accusations fly.

And Adam I don't think SK is going to be contacting you for your opinion, data or engineering expertise any time soon. They probably have enough capable engineers, designers and market people to get along for a little while. Plus you didn't exactly endear yourself to SK Eric.

Turned into a real shooting match.

You do know this company went bankrupt 4 years ago, right? A tool conglomerate bought the brand name for $3.5M. The SK plant closed and the employees all lost their jobs. Tell me again about their great engineering and marketing departments.

 

[kythri]

You do know this company went bankrupt 4 years ago, right? A tool conglomerate bought the brand name for $3.5M. The SK plant closed and the employees all lost their jobs. Tell me again about their great engineering and marketing departments.

Seriously, can you troll somewhere else?

 

[LB-1911]

You do know this company went bankrupt 4 years ago, right? A tool conglomerate bought the brand name for $3.5M. The SK plant closed and the employees all lost their jobs. Tell me again about their great engineering and marketing departments.

The tool conglomerate that you speak of is Ideal Industries, a family owned privately held company that has done and is doing quite well.

SYCAMORE, IL (May 14, 2015)

At its groundbreaking ceremony in the Sycamore Prairie Business Park, IDEAL INDUSTRIES, INC. of Sycamore Illinois, celebrated the beginning of a construction process that will result in a new manufacturing facility of 220,000 square feet.

It will replace several existing facilities in the area and provide additional capacity within the existing product lines as well as support new product launches which are being announced simultaneously with the construction.


https://www.idealindustries.com/news/

 

[sk farmer]

Seriously, can you troll somewhere else?

The tool conglomerate that you speak of is Ideal Industries, a family owned privately held company that has done and is doing quite well.

SYCAMORE, IL (May 14, 2015)

At its groundbreaking ceremony in the Sycamore Prairie Business Park, IDEAL INDUSTRIES, INC. of Sycamore Illinois, celebrated the beginning of a construction process that will result in a new manufacturing facility of 220,000 square feet.

It will replace several existing facilities in the area and provide additional capacity within the existing product lines as well as support new product launches which are being announced simultaneously with the construction.


https://www.idealindustries.com/news/

thank you for calling a spade a spade kythri.

don't confuse the troll with facts lb-1911.

 

[LB-1911]

don't confuse the troll with facts lb-1911.

I heard that they were in short supply.....

That's a problem with the GJ community on this particular forum. Lots of emotion, not much fact or analysis.

 

[sparky5982]

I don't post here often. After reading through this thread, I remember why.

I own a lot of Wright, including their round head ratchets, which are my favorite. I WILL take a closer look at SK tools in the future. I like the things they're doing. Thanks SK Eric for chiming in.

 

[SMKS]

SK wont warrantie it since i'm in europe...

Again, there's nothing to warranty. That's quite an old socket and there were probably many that looked like that back then.

 

[Askme42]

That's a problem with the GJ community on this particular forum. Lots of emotion, not much fact or analysis.

Yet you just keep posting.....

 

[sonvolt]

No one can be a successful technician of any kind with SK tools. They are just useless hand tools that your father had. Ridiculous soap box comments by some posters keep me aligned with just reading the 2015 garage sale thread.

 

[ChevyEFI]

Adam,

You seem frustrated that SK doesn't make exactly what you want. Everything is too small, not enough, etc. Let's think about that. SK expanded their product line, I think around the Facom years, and carried a lot of tools. I once had a pilot bearing tool remover from the 1990s, and they offered items that are no longer available. As a business decision, they are working on their core business. They are doing so in a way that doesn't involve manufacturing every specialty tool under the sun. Every manufacturer has to slim their offerings down. Various account practices make competition in the marketplace tight. In this case, a U.S. company shouldn't offer a tool that's already made overseas, imported and available if they would just be entering that particular sector (of x-long double flex head box wrenches for example.)

Similarly, the 3870 roto head (and the 43875 for different reasons) dropped out of the marketplace around when imported roto ratchets were available from several manufacturers. I love my 3870, I would buy a 43875 if I ran across one at the right time, and I'd even buy the Facom labeled version but haven't found one yet. I am used to the design, the knurled handle, length, shape, feel, and utility feel right to me so much that I don't like pear head or flex-handle ratchets. Look at Jeff Moss's signature some time. Three generations using the same PN. I'm not going to elaborate on how many years SK ratchets have provided bulletproof service for members of my family, but they kick a lot of pear-heads in the gutter with regard to durability in my hands-on experience.

You're a bit overboard with the numbers, statistics, and ratchet measuring. People who are out kicking **** in the real world aren't furiously measuring things like wrenches, they're buying them. Market penetration isn't about doing a sophomoric tool analysis, it's about putting your name on product that works, works, tomorrow, and works after years of legitimate work underhood, not at the keyboard. SK's core product line aims for that, and doesn't apologize when it's sitting in your toolbox 15 years later, unscathed.

There's a lot more to product selection and introduction based on profitability than meets the eye. Most of what we yap about on this forum has nothing to do with the decisions made by an Ideal Industries, or a Stanley. At this time, SK's decisions seem methodical and slow, but they endeavor to release product with lots of reason behind it. Not using the gimmicks you mentioned. And I like that about them.

I don't apologize for not buying every tool SK offers, and they don't apologize for not offering every tool they could introduce. I assure you I over-analyze many purchases I make and they are putting good business analysis towards the products they introduce.



-J

 

[hangfirew8]

No one can be a successful technician of any kind with SK tools. They are just useless hand tools that your father had. Ridiculous soap box comments by some posters keep me aligned with just reading the 2015 garage sale thread.

I'll go all Adam.C on you here and ask for FACTS to back up this statement/trolling!

 

[PJNJ]

You do know this company went bankrupt 4 years ago, right? A tool conglomerate bought the brand name for $3.5M. The SK plant closed and the employees all lost their jobs. Tell me again about their great engineering and marketing departments.

Man, you really can't let go can you? Yeah they went bankrupt. Ideal bought the company, started a new plant and resumed production. The plant was ALREADY CLOSED and operating only with a skeleton crew. The factory, employees and real estate were not included in the sale and SK had ceased operations prior to the bankruptcy filing. Ideal didn't put anybody out of work. Just the opposite. They employ people at a forging plant in Colorado Springs and a manufacturing and distribution facility in Sycamore, Illinois.

See this -
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/arti.../sk-hand-tool-assets-sold-to-ideal-industries

Get your facts straight please.

 

[Sanny81]

I don't think Adam is a troll...no troll could be this persistent and wordy.

 

[Jure]

And if it's new production, why wasn't it warrantied? A single socket is not indicative of a systemic issue.

Again, there's nothing to warranty. That's quite an old socket and there were probably many that looked like that back then.

i have never said id like to warranty it...i just replyed to kythri's message why it wasn't warrantied.

 

[Hyster Gareth]

Thanks for taking the time SK Eric much appreciated. Look forward to seeing the new ratchets.

 

[Sam'sAutoParts]

I'm very excited for a new ratchet from SK, I'm also very excited about the possibility of an upgrade for the old round heads. I'm a big fan of the Tuff1 rats, so a Dual Pawl insert for the regular RH would be perfect.

I'm looking forward to trying the ratcheting wrenches as well, I thought they looked kinda funny at first, but still willing to give them a try.

Not sure WTF happened to this thread, but thanks SK Eric for the updates.

Just a side note to add my opinion to the pile, I for one like SK, always have, probably always will, my Father always liked them, and a pair of SK wire strippers were the first name brand tool I ever bought with my own money. I guess you could say I have been drinking the green juice

 

[redbarron57]

Im not going to give any scientific data because i am to busy working with my tools to dilly **** around doing tourque tests and other shite like that. And user testimonials are not non scientific. Cunsumer preference is very much a solid gague of quality and value. Dude i love snap-on tools, lo ve them. But for me most of their tools wont hold any value to me until i have performed several tasks with them. They are just to costly. However if you take my sk combo wrench set for 150.00 and compare them to the snap on set for 450.00. Yeah the snap on is longer, stronger and has a better profile but with length i go with value every time. I very rarely am doing a job and stop to go borrow a snap on wrench. Il got a lot of sk tools handed down to me. Some of them are 30 40 years old so they work just fine for me. They make nice tools and they are made in the usa, i dont get all the hate. Btw i own proto, sk, black hawk, sk, hf and gear wrench tools. I also own a few select snapon and blue point tools.

 

[redbarron57]

I even have a few crapsman tools left, but i have sold most of it. I kept the usa sockets