Sacrilege! (Long Thread).

[shoggoth80]

I'm really just sort of sharing at this point. I dropped off the map a bit because I haven't been buying tools so much. Using tools for sure. That's part of my job. Day in, day out. Try not to break them... because getting them replaced is a process where I work.

Anyway... on to the fun stuff I guess. I own two Snap On rats, both swivel/roto head. One in 3/8s, and one in 1/4". I love them both. They cost me a pretty penny...I bought them both off the truck before I got my current job. I bought these for work at the time, and now they do not come to work with me. They would grow legs really fast if I brought them to work. Issued tools grow legs some times. It's frustrating, and a minor battle.

So, given that I do not take my precious ratchets with me to work, I decided that I didn't want to lose the convenience and flexibility of roto heads. I had a GW 3/8 roto that I picked up to see if I liked the style (before buying the Snappies). That came to work with me, I also ran out and bought one of these little guys:
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quarter-inch-quick-release-swivel-head-ratchet-96781.html

I can preface by if I had requested them from the tool room, I would have had to make a convincing argument as to why I needed them. When my box got issued, it was a mish-mash of stuff... but no 3/8 or 1/4 drive ratchets. This is how they came to work with me. Rather than ask and wait, or worse, justify and wait.... I called the less expensive tools a sacrifice I was willing to make.

I blew the guts out of the GW roto head. I got that warranty swapped. It's been going pretty strong since. Believe it or not the little Pittsburgh roto head is also still kicking very well. No issues. A little oil every now and again, and it doesn't care. I ream on them 5 days a week, throw them, drop them, beat on stuff with them, wear and tear, used and abused for the last year and a half.

Granted a 1/4" ratchet isn't generally a high torque tool. I've broken other ratchets at work. Including a 3/8 on the square. Not the internals... the square shank where you plunk the socket. I have jammed on both the GW and the HF until I watched the handle shafts flex. I've split sockets, shattered u-joints, I've used cheater bars on some stuff. Ripped 3/8 and 1/4 drive breaker bars up.

I am honestly rather impressed by these two. More so by the HF ratchet, as that little ****** was only $11. There are way worse tools in that store, for more money.

This is not a truck brand bash thread, or anything other than a little surprise, and just general sharing. A year and a half isn't a long time in terms of tool service life, but I'm not kidding when I say that I abuse them.

 

[Adam.C]

The reason so many here have problems with this post is because there's so much contrary anecdotal evidence. This points to the underlying problem facing Chiwan tools. They don't have quality control (like, at all) every tool, and every billet of steel gets shipped to the customer. So you got one made with good steel, that they actually heat treated at the tool manufacturer, while others here got the ratchets made from steel that should have been rejected or tools that should have been scrapped. But the absolute lowest cost model doesn't allow for scrap.

The result are smart, honest people like yourself, who had a positive experience, arguing with smart honest people who didn't.

While I'm no fan of the HF company, they are stuck as well. The units their receiving inspectors looked at were good quality for money. But they don't inspect every article as that would impact the purchase price. Unfortunately, if you want quality from China (Taiwan to a slightly lesser extent) you've got to inspect every article, including/especially the materials entering the factory.

So forgive me if I dont sound convinced. And please don't take it personally when you don't receive resounding agreement. The problem is that HF quality really is inconsistent. People who had positive experiences feel like they have discovered a tool gold mine. Others who have had less than positive experiences can't understand why anyone would shop there.

 

[kythri]

The result are smart, honest people like yourself, who had a positive experience, arguing with smart honest people who didn't.

Actually, Adam, the results are smart, honest people like the OP, who had a REAL, positive experience with the actual product being discussed, arguing with people who MAY have had past negative experiences, usually with some other import tool, and/or, by and large, zero experience with the actual tool that people like the OP are posting about, but who continually feel the need to wax intellectual about it because they just don't like imported stuff.

Now, we have a new argument, that you've pioneered. Instead of tearing down the individual tools that you have no actual hands-on experience with, you now argue about foreign (typically Chinese) manufacturing's poor quality control and quality fade, and imply that it applies to all of these manufacturers or products on the market.

You know what's also comical? Your implication that domestic manufacturers QC/QA every single article. Because they don't. They may inspect more parts-per-whatever than other manufacturers, which, yes, does drive up the cost per unit, but inspecting every single socket, ratchet, wrench off the line? It isn't happening, and there's more than enough examples, posted on this very forum, of EVERY manufacturer's defects that "slipped" past.

Can we please lay off the BS?

Unless someone has some direct experience with the brand/item, if their only contribution is going to be, effectively, "I don't like imported tools" (and, face it, no matter how long-winded, wordy and intellectual sounding your response here is, that's all it boils down to), then just don't post it.

If these tools are truly as horrible as you imply that they are, then someone else is going to actually have that experience, and they can post about it.

Sadly, when that happens, we're going to see yet another line of BS - the "I told you so" crowd that shows up any time someone discusses a failure of whatever brand isn't the darling of the day.

It's the same thing, over and over. An error is indicative of systemic issues when it comes to imports or brands that have fallen from favor, but an error from the darling brands is a unicorn - a rare, fantasy creature that exists only in dream.

Just knock it off already.

The OP bought something, it's working great for him, he's posting a review describing that. Unless you can counter that with your own experience with that product, and not nebulous nonsense, you've got nothing.

 

[kythri]

To the OP, and with apologies for your thread being hijacked by the anti-import nonsense:

I was looking pretty hard at those ratchets - I just wish HF would offer a lot of their new ratchets without the comfort grip.

I ended up going with the Kobalt rotos. Only oddity there is that the 3/8" is about as long as the 1/2". So far, so good, but I haven't really reefed on the things all that much (situation hasn't presented itself).

I'd love to try HF's new "professional" ratchets, but, again, comfort grip. Just not my bag.

 

[Gmonkee]

An economic reality forced me have a base of Asain tools laced with some Euro imports by choice.

The ratchets have always been the weakest link in the Asain stuff for me where my boss has one going strong more than a decade. I've had a dozen to try and those that I didn't learn to hate broke. Until the last one. It was good so now I have two drive sizes of that one. Some Wurth brand Facom type ratchets are my long term worker bees. I really don't keep that many modern ratchets around, just the few I need for my job.

So I think I understand how this beast is motivated because none of mine are mainstream accepted truck brands, in fact the two I had got resold pretty fast as not to my liking. Yet what most here would label a gimmicky Asain POS before the even try one has been my personal best choice.

OP, congrats on finding ratchet nirvana. It seems few are capable of finding that one model that holds up long term without breaking and does the job perfectly.

 

[d.mcfarland]

There's probably millions of people in tough economic situations or just plain simply buy stuff that works for them that have had great experiences with inexpensive tools like that roto head ratchet. They just don't post on here that they did indeed beat the hell out of them and it still worked.

 

[Adam.C]

If these tools are truly as horrible as you imply that they are, then someone else is going to actually have that experience, and they can post about it.

My mistake. My post was pre-emptive.

There are a couple threads about this particular ratchet where guys have posted their problems with it. The OP hasn't posted much here and maybe hasn't seen them. Maybe you missed them as well.

 

[ChevyEFI]

There are a large number of posts here and mindsets that brand = an accurate, easy analysis of tool quality.

Skip the ******** posts every time. Analyze your tools in the way suggested in the front of the Haynes automotive manuals, learn what makes tools better than others, and live your life.

 

[shoggoth80]

Well, I can say that my intent on this thread is neither a huge glowing endorsement of cheaper import tools. Neither is it hate on truck brands. It's neither. I own both. I have some truck brand ratchets, wrenches, scanner. I have industrial wrench sets and impacts from Armstrong, Matco ratcheting stubbies, euro import stuff from Bahco, cheap HF import stuff to fill some gaps, got a socket set from Kobalt etc.

I work in an environment where people might borrow stuff while you are off shift, and not put it back (due to forgetfulness, being rushed, malice), because most of us don't have quite all the tools we need or want at a given moment. It is also typically a struggle to get gaps filled at work. Anything brought in becomes considered to be company property, as we aren't technically supposed to be bringing in our own stuff to accomplish the job (overlooked because of issues above). Because of this, expensive or higher quality tools that I had bought when I was responsible for my own kit do not come to work with me. Yes, I hold my Snap On, and my Bahco ratchets in high regard in terms of quality, ease of use, and comfort. That is neither here nor there.

I had that longer sprawling intro in the original post not to take up space, waste time, or draw attention away from the subject, but to give background. I'm kinda scatterbrained, so I don't know if I did it well enough.

Like I said: A year and a half isn't a long amount of service for a tool. On the other hand, the little 1/4" roto has served rather well in the last year and a half, and continues to do so. That is impressive for the price tag of $11, and I thought it was worthy of a mention. No more, and no less really.

 

[shoggoth80]

Oh... and the reason I don't post on here as much, is because my need to buy a LOT of tools for myself (I work in the automotive industry...fleet shop now, but wasn't prior) has diminished greatly... therefore I rely on the feedback and input of others with more experience less... because at work, I get whatever brand the stockroom manager decides to issue.

I am slowly, thinning the herd at home, and will eventually replace the cheaper stuff with either great bang for the buck stuff, or more likely solid middle of the road pieces. Simply because the amount of stress the tool goes through at home is waaaay less than that of fleet service.

Edit: The title is meant to be somewhat funny, somewhat ironic. I have really nice ratchets for home use, and use cheap beaters at work. There is also the "how dare I say that an $11 ratchet can be good!" robble robble. Lol.