Sad Craig's List Rant

[Skyline]

http://allentown.craigslist.org/tls/1947852415.html

matco look at posting - $1 (northampton)
i posted this in response to matco tools do not give any matco website or tool truck driver any business i have an account with matco with TWO toolboxs on and numerous tools on so i got out of the business and decided to sell my on box so i posted on craigslist they set up a fake call asking for serial numbers and manufactured dates and then said it was someone from matco that if i did no remove the sale they could press charges when its all one big bill that i was going to sell one of the TWO boxes to pay off the payment and i have never missed a payment in OVER TWO YEARS and they will not let me sell the one box so do not give that company any business they are a horrible tool company to deal with i will never buy anything from them again after i have spend tens of thousands with them over the years​

Aside from the obvious truth to the fact that you can not legally sell tools or toolboxes with an outstanding lein...has anyone ever heard of a tool company calling CL ads hunting for serial numbers????

BTW, I know Matco does keep a central database of tool box serial numbers. All you need to do is call Matco credit, and they will tell you if it is fully paid for. If it's not, and you want to buy it, ask if you can pay off the loan on behalf of the owner. If this can be coordinated with the seller, this is the only way to go; otherwise walk away.

 

[The Rider]

Did Matco also steal the period key from his keyboard?

 

[Danglerb]

Wow, sounds like they would prefer to repo the box instead of having it paid off.

You may not be able to sell it while it has a lien, but how can they stop you from offering it for sale contingent to paying off the lien the same as you would sell a car or a house and pay off the old debt with the money received?

 

[hguerrero]

ha. made me chuckle.

Did Matco also steal the period key from his keyboard?

 

[mrshaun]

Most guys work a deal with their dealer letting them know what is going on. I have one guy who sold his box and now it is repo time for the rest of his tools and he will not have the box to turn back in. He pocketed the money and now he will regret doing that.

 

[shotgunfatcat]

Yeah, I think a talking to your truck guy might have helped, besides wouldn't he be able to trade in the one box towards the payment of the other?

 

[09-JK]

Sorry, he deserves it based on his refusal to use punctuation.

 

[mrholeshot]

The thing to do in a situation like that is to post in the add you need the money to pay off the box. Toolboxs are getting so outragous high they need a title or deed. Tool companies have always listed in the contracts that the property remains the owner ship of the seller until the buyer pays it off. The sad thing is that if you never zero out your balance it keeps all your stuff in limbo. About each year I would zero out my accounts with the tool guy for this reason. Had I paid them for 10 years where it started out on a set of boxes everything is still legally the sellers athough you may have paid 30K over that 10 years and the toolboxes "only" cost 10. His best bet is stay paid up, sell the boxes and pay off the tool man. There isn't anything Matco can do about that. If he doesn't it's theft by owner (here in SC). He just needs to word his add right. But zeroing your account out occasionally shows ownership from anything prior to that date on the receipt. I've seen one tool man come in and repo one guys tools and he had been paying 10 years on the same account and owed like 1200 dollars. The law let the tool man take his entire box because it was still under contract. In the end it costed the toolman about 100K after the jury awarded the guy the money for everything but the 1200 dollars and a years wages lost. Thats why you hear me remark a lot over owing your soul to the tool man.

 

[Brad54]

If you imagine some punctuation in that rant, it seems like he might have paid for the boxes, or at least one box, but still has an outstanding bill with Matco, and that they consider ALL his tools and boxes as having a lien on them because "it's all one big bill."

I think we've had this discussion on here before, about getting a whole box and tool repo'd because the box is delinquent, etc.

If that's the case... if the guy simply has a huge bill with Matco for the tools in the box, but over the years he's paid off what the box would cost, but he's still got a bill for the contents, but their accounting doesn't break down individual items, then that's a ******** policy.
Also, unless they give you a title for the box, like a car or home, I don't see how they can stop a sale. You owe them X dollars OR the box... if you don't have the box, then you still owe them X dollars, and they can come after you for that.

-Brad

 

[Skyline]

The thing to do in a situation like that is to post in the add you need the money to pay off the box. Toolboxs are getting so outragous high they need a title or deed. Tool companies have always listed in the contracts that the property remains the owner ship of the seller until the buyer pays it off. The sad thing is that if you never zero out your balance it keeps all your stuff in limbo. About each year I would zero out my accounts with the tool guy for this reason. Had I paid them for 10 years where it started out on a set of boxes everything is still legally the sellers athough you may have paid 30K over that 10 years and the toolboxes "only" cost 10. His best bet is stay paid up, sell the boxes and pay off the tool man. There isn't anything Matco can do about that. If he doesn't it's theft by owner (here in SC). He just needs to word his add right. But zeroing your account out occasionally shows ownership from anything prior to that date on the receipt. I've seen one tool man come in and repo one guys tools and he had been paying 10 years on the same account and owed like 1200 dollars. The law let the tool man take his entire box because it was still under contract. In the end it costed the toolman about 100K after the jury awarded the guy the money for everything but the 1200 dollars and a years wages lost. Thats why you hear me remark a lot over owing your soul to the tool man.

I've never seen a Matco lien, but I've seen one from Snap-on (I posted it here about two years ago). "Zeroing out" your account with Snap-on does nothing to protect your fully paid Snap-on Tools that you own if you get repossessed. Their contract reads that anything that you own that has a Snap-on logo, or came from a Snap-on truck could be repossessed. Under a later credit contract. From a business standpoint, this makes total sense.

Let's say you buy a $10,000 triple bank. Two months later you stop paying. If they reposses, no way can they get back their $10k on a second hand box. Since the new agreement you signed for the box adds your fully paid for Snap-on tool collection as collatoral for the box, they CAN and WILL take the box and contents. Assuming they can find you. I do agree that taking more than they need to cover the loan makes no sense, and I guess could get them in trouble, but if they end up with a surplus after liquidating everything they repossess, they do owe it back to you, either by returning some tools, or giving you the cash.

 

[mrholeshot]

I've never seen a Matco lien, but I've seen one from Snap-on (I posted it here about two years ago). "Zeroing out" your account with Snap-on does nothing to protect your fully paid Snap-on Tools that you own if you get repossessed. Their contract reads that anything that you own that has a Snap-on logo, or came from a Snap-on truck could be repossessed. Under a later credit contract. From a business standpoint, this makes total sense.

Let's say you buy a $10,000 triple bank. Two months later you stop paying. If they reposses, no way can they get back their $10k on a second hand box. Since the new agreement you signed for the box adds your fully paid for Snap-on tool collection as collatoral for the box, they CAN and WILL take the box and contents. Assuming they can find you. I do agree that taking more than they need to cover the loan makes no sense, and I guess could get them in trouble, but if they end up with a surplus after liquidating everything they repossess, they do owe it back to you, either by returning some tools, or giving you the cash.

No matter how they word the contract once you pay your balance off the only thing they can repo is what they have unpaid recipts for. Anything past that is absolute theft. If they can't get the money out of what you bought to cover the sale they can sue you for the balance but rolling out you box that has been paid for and zeroed out or repoing the box and taking tools that are paid for is also theft. I use to zero out my accounts once a year because if something happened to me the tool men couldn't come in a repo everything and leave the wife with nothing. Once you pay it off it's yours

 

[warmpancakes]

In michigan they can only take what the "loan" is for IE the loan documents must state exactally what the $$$$ is for, buddy is repo man and has been asked to repo tool boxes, cars all sorts of stuff. If he repos a tool box he is responsible for the box and contents until the owners pick up their items so if he repos a tool box hes has to by law keep all of the items in the box for 30 days then he can dispose of them, he can and does charge storage 25.00 per day per item (what the law states)

 

[comedyman809]

who here has dept with any tool company???


tools arnt much of an investment if you have to pay them off.

obviously you cannot afford the tools. i am generally speaking. no one here is being pointed out other than people with outstanding dept to the tool trucks.

 

[comedyman809]

the funny thing is, i see guys with 20 grand in tools, and i walk up to them, and say, hey man, nice tools you got there, too bad they are not yours.



i really dont say this to anyone, but sure do think it!!!!

 

[comedyman809]

are you even allowed to engrave tools that dont belong to you


haha

what if you lose one , are you going to take a loan to buy another, so, loan on 2 of the same tool, yet you only have one in hand.

 

[chadster1]

I've seen one tool man come in and repo one guys tools and he had been paying 10 years on the same account and owed like 1200 dollars. The law let the tool man take his entire box because it was still under contract. In the end it costed the toolman about 100K after the jury awarded the guy the money for everything but the 1200 dollars and a years wages lost. Thats why you hear me remark a lot over owing your soul to the tool man.

The guy didnt have $1200 to pay off his debt but he had money to pay a lawyer to take the toolman to court? Doubtful.

 

[Skyline]

No matter how they word the contract once you pay your balance off the only thing they can repo is what they have unpaid recipts for. Anything past that is absolute theft. If they can't get the money out of what you bought to cover the sale they can sue you for the balance but rolling out you box that has been paid for and zeroed out or repoing the box and taking tools that are paid for is also theft. I use to zero out my accounts once a year because if something happened to me the tool men couldn't come in a repo everything and leave the wife with nothing. Once you pay it off it's yours

Here's a post I made 2 years ago with the exact text of a Snap-on UCC:

I did a NJ UCC1 search on the box I was going to buy Sunday, and a hit did come up for Snap-on. Snap-on credit did initially tell me that I was in the clear buying this box. But the language of the UCC bothered me. BTW, this was on the "extra pages" you could order for $1/page, not the actual UCC hit:

Collateral: Purchase money security interest in automotive tools and equipment, more specifically, listed on credit sales contract or equipment lease no. listed below. In addition to the purchase money security interest granted in the collateral listed on the referenced the collateral shall include all items of tools and equipment of debtor, whether now owned or hereafter acquired from a Snap-on dealer, and any and all goods and equipment manufactured or distributed from a Snap-on dealer, and any of its affiliates, or bearing the Snap-on or Sun Electric trademarks or logos, together with all proceeds (including insurance proceeds or claims), accessions, attachments, additions, substitutions, and replacements to and of such items (the foregoing and the collateral listed on the referenced credit sales contract or equipment lease are collectively referred to as "collateral"). Credit sales contract No. XXXXXXX***

After another call to Snap-on credit, I walked away from this purchase. This guy had a large unpaid balance with them. Here the way they explained it: Let's say you buy a big $10k KRL toolbox. Pay it off 100%. Then 5 years after paying off the box, you buy a $6900 Snap-on scan tool. You default on the scanner after one payment. According to this agreement, Snap on can not only reposses the scanner, but they can take your paid-for KRL toolbox as well. I could certainly envision where the used value of both items would barely equal the value you owe on the scanner. But you are really signing with the devil with these Snap-on contracts!

I know in that thread, we got into all sorts of discussions about whether this is really legal, and I think the conclusion was that it was not in some states. BUT...this is the ACTUAL language of a Snap-on UCC, and if you sign for this stuff, be prepared for the consequences.

 

[Lump]

Skyline is right about what the contract says. Credit issues are STATE law, and very different from state-to-state. Indeed, that contract itself may even be illegal in some states. On the other hand, Snap On and other tool companies may have different contracts for different states.

IF you sign a contract that states you are putting your own paid-for Snap On tools up for collateral (or anything else spelled out as collateral in the contract), then on the surface of things it would seem that Snap On could repossess everything. But all 50 states have laws protecting consumers from unfair credit policies, and any judge may be likely to throw out a tool-purchase contract, if he/she feels it is very unfair, or violates that state's laws. This often happens in real world courtrooms.

Credit contracts are tools that manufacturers and retailers use to TRY and protect themselves from bad debt. But once you walk into a courtroom to fight a case like this, the outcome is rarely certain for either side.

As for the idea that a guy who does not have $1,200 to pay a bill could not pay a lawyer, I tend to disagree. Here in Ohio, there are many attorneys who are willing to take on a case (if they think it is a strong one) for a heavy percentage of any proceeds. And, when a court decides that a "big strong business" is using draconian tough-guy tactics to damage an "unfortunate little guy", there can be very big judgements...much more than the money owed. And many, many lawyers would like to have 50% of a judgement like that.

In the end, READ a credit contract before you sign it. Don't buy more tools than you are sure you can pay for in a short term, even if your job goes away. And if you do find yourself in a credit crunch where you cannot meet your obligations, call your tool seller immediately, BEFORE you get behind on your bill, and tell them what you're going through. Then seek advice from a banker, financial advisor, etc, and look for potential solutions. Working on a new payment plan with a creditor is MUCH better than trying to fight them, or stiff them.

 

[mrholeshot]

The guy didnt have $1200 to pay off his debt but he had money to pay a lawyer to take the toolman to court? Doubtful.

Attorneys here will take cases on contingency especially where the other person is absolutly in the wrong. As cut and dried as a Drunk driver hitting you

 

[chadster1]

... And if you do find yourself in a credit crunch where you cannot meet your obligations, call your tool seller immediately, BEFORE you get behind on your bill, and tell them what you're going through....

I know Snap-on will work with someone IF they are upfront about their problems and don't try and hide from the dealer or quit answering their phone. They dont want to reposess the tools, they want to be paid. Repo's are good for no one but the guy that ends up buying the tools once they are sold.

 

[mrholeshot]

Skyline is right about what the contract says. Credit issues are STATE law, and very different from state-to-state. Indeed, that contract itself may even be illegal in some states. On the other hand, Snap On and other tool companies may have different contracts for different states.

IF you sign a contract that states you are putting your own paid-for Snap On tools up for collateral (or anything else spelled out as collateral in the contract), then on the surface of things it would seem that Snap On could repossess everything. But all 50 states have laws protecting consumers from unfair credit policies, and any judge may be likely to throw out a tool-purchase contract, if he/she feels it is very unfair, or violates that state's laws. This often happens in real world courtrooms.

Credit contracts are tools that manufacturers and retailers use to TRY and protect themselves from bad debt. But once you walk into a courtroom to fight a case like this, the outcome is rarely certain for either side.

As for the idea that a guy who does not have $1,200 to pay a bill could not pay a lawyer, I tend to disagree. Here in Ohio, there are many attorneys who are willing to take on a case (if they think it is a strong one) for a heavy percentage of any proceeds. And, when a court decides that a "big strong business" is using draconian tough-guy tactics to damage an "unfortunate little guy", there can be very big judgements...much more than the money owed. And many, many lawyers would like to have 50% of a judgement like that.

In the end, READ a credit contract before you sign it. Don't buy more tools than you are sure you can pay for in a short term, even if your job goes away. And if you do find yourself in a credit crunch where you cannot meet your obligations, call your tool seller immediately, BEFORE you get behind on your bill, and tell them what you're going through. Then seek advice from a banker, financial advisor, etc, and look for potential solutions. Working on a new payment plan with a creditor is MUCH better than trying to fight them, or stiff them.

That **** don't fly in SC, lol

 

[Lump]

I know Snap-on will work with someone IF they are upfront about their problems and don't try and hide from the dealer or quit answering their phone. They dont want to reposess the tools, they want to be paid. Repo's are good for no one but the guy that ends up buying the tools once they are sold.

Right on, Chadster. If you agreed to pay for the tools, then you must try to do so. If you have a life-changing event damage your ability to pay, contact the creditor immediately, and tell them the truth. Express your willingness to pay, and work with them the best you can. Maintain good communication, be honest, and then let chips fall where they may.

After all, if someone owed YOU a lot of money, and then lost their job (or whatever), that is exactly what you would expect from them.

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

Did Matco also steal the period key from his keyboard?

Yeah, no sh/t. The guy sounds like sh/t for brains.

 

[Wanna Ride]

Not saying this is the case in this thread or with the op, but...

This is no different than with cars, bikes, boats, etc. There's A LOT of people out there that get hung up in the NOW and over extend themselves. I'm sure there's a a percentage of these that are legitimate hardship issues, but I'm also certain the majority is... people spending more than they earn.

And some of it can also be blamed on creditors issuing credit to people they really shouldn't. That's a largely contributing factor to what has recently happened in our housing and home loan industry, which bled over into our current national economy.

It makes no difference what the borrowed money is spent on. You cannot spend MORE than you earn.

 

[Howells]

no snap on credit for me just a small tab on the truck from time to time max of 3-5 hundred dollars and make a payment every payday. At $500 if anything ever happened I could just pay it off right away no worries.

 

[ToolGuy75]

no snap on credit for me just a small tab on the truck from time to time max of 3-5 hundred dollars and make a payment every payday. At $500 if anything ever happened I could just pay it off right away no worries.

Thats how i do it also, in the 18 years that i have been wrenching I have never had a credit contract with a tool truck, only small tabs no more than $500 also........

 

[pipsters]

I'm just wondering, as I was looking amongst the boxes in our hanger, about the cost of these things. I mean is it ever needed to go buy (cash or credit) a $10,000 box to hold your tools? Is the $800 box from Harbor Freight THAT bad? Will it not last long enough to get you to the point where you can buy a small-cars value of a tool box?

But it just blows my mind at the thousands mechanics have wrapped up in their boxes and all they do is hold tools. I really can't imagine a Sears or Harbor Freight box that cost 10%-20% of the "name brand" boxes doesn't last at least a few years.

 

[Joe From NY]

Sorry, he deserves it based on his refusal to use punctuation.

I would have to agree. The paragraph changes meaning every time i read it and pause in different places. Too much trouble. i only figured out what he was saying by reading the replies.

 

[ADaughen]

I'm just wondering, as I was looking amongst the boxes in our hanger, about the cost of these things. I mean is it ever needed to go buy (cash or credit) a $10,000 box to hold your tools? Is the $800 box from Harbor Freight THAT bad? Will it not last long enough to get you to the point where you can buy a small-cars value of a tool box?

But it just blows my mind at the thousands mechanics have wrapped up in their boxes and all they do is hold tools. I really can't imagine a Sears or Harbor Freight box that cost 10%-20% of the "name brand" boxes doesn't last at least a few years.

Some of these are kids that are lured in with deals from schools. WYOTEC told me it would be ~$35,000 start-up cost for tools, but don't worry I could take a loan out for it and they had a deal with one of the trucks.


Mechanics might NEED certain tools to do a job. It might be easier to charge it up and pay it off when they get paid. Problem happens if the job pays slow or not at all.



FWIW, WYOTEC, seemed like a great program, just not for me, at that time... which is another thread altogether.