SAE Wrenches - Where Used?

[bsaint]

Airbus and Rolls Royce use SAE fasteners? That's like a roll reversal of everything else.

Industrial compressors made here mostly all still use SAE and a lot of ferry bolts.

 

[Hlidskjalf]

All HVAC is SAE. Of course this does not include Euro equipment, which is not too common.

 

[Ben Buck]

WHAT!!! I use my sae's all the time, all over. I even use my 32'nds. I switched out the bolts and nuts on a welding cart that I bought for my Xmas. I needed 7/16 and 1/2 inch wrenches and 3/8's. My big ones get used too, for trailer hitch balls and the like. Long live SAE.

 

[abstamaria]

Re: SAE and Rolls Royce

Airbus and Rolls Royce use SAE fasteners? That's like a roll reversal of everything else.

But, remember, bsaint, Rolls Royce is (was?) English and so would have used an inch-based system.

In this regard, Carroll Smith (the fastener guru) noted that, in WW II, when the British installed Rolls Royce engines in an American fighter (I think the Mustang), the problem was that the plane then utilized two different bolt standards, as there was not a single inch-based system then.

 

[abstamaria]

To get back on track, BQuicksilver opened the thread with the questions:

Did rip me too hard, but I've gotta ask where you guys really need SAE wrenches? Where do you guys use your SAE wrenches?

The answer seems to be that many of us really need SAE wrenches for working on older American and British vehicles (including fire engines), aircraft, and a great deal of current machinery and equipment. If one needs to install Aeroquip and similar hoses, that would be SAE as well. I have a 1969 Lotus and a 1948 MG TC, so I cannot live without SAE (and Whitworth)! So there.

Having said that, is "SAE" the correct term for the current standard inch-based system? I know there is UNC and UNF, but am uncertain whether "SAE" is the right collective name for the present "not-metric" standard. Just plain ignorance on my part, so please let me know, so I may label my tool drawers correctly.

Happy New Year to all.

Andres

 

[cnc-me]

American made, wood and metal working machines are SAE.

 

[leod]

I have all metric socket and wrenches (have import cars) and I am wondering if SAE is still used on modern cars

 

[therealwormey]

All my vehicles are old, except the Harley and it is SAE also.

ditto

 

[WHT]

To get back on track, BQuicksilver opened the thread with the questions:



The answer seems to be that many of us really need SAE wrenches for working on older American and British vehicles (including fire engines), aircraft, and a great deal of current machinery and equipment. If one needs to install Aeroquip and similar hoses, that would be SAE as well. I have a 1969 Lotus and a 1948 MG TC, so I cannot live without SAE (and Whitworth)! So there.


Andres

Happy New Year!

My wife has a 1952 MG TD and she makes me work on it.

It also has a split personality with the body and chassis using mostly Whitworth threads (BSW) and the engine using mostly metric threads with a few BSF thrown in just to keep it interesting. So far, all the fasteners I have removed and/or replaced have had Whitworth heads.

 

[BQuicksilver]

To get back on track, BQuicksilver opened the thread with the questions:

The answer seems to be that many of us really need SAE wrenches for working on older American and British vehicles (including fire engines), aircraft, and a great deal of current machinery and equipment. If one needs to install Aeroquip and similar hoses, that would be SAE as well. I have a 1969 Lotus and a 1948 MG TC, so I cannot live without SAE (and Whitworth)! So there.

Happy New Year to all.

Andres

Thanks Andres. Yes, this thread was a nice reminder of when to expect an SAE fastener on various projects/jobs. I wasn't wanting to challenge SAE's utility, but rather understand when to expect them.

I think the side debate arose re: how many current vehicles really contain SAE hardware, and if so how much.

WHT: I'd still like to see you back up your claim that LS3/LS7 engines have SAE fasteners as well as there being multiple SAE fasteners on a C6. I think i have my answer since you sidestepped the question, but it would be interesting to me if your claims were based in fact.

 

[Displaced Hokie]

In talking to an engineer recently he stated that everything is designed in metric via Pro E, and all hardware in the main machine is metric.

Interestingly though, in some cases they may choose SAE hardware for something like an accessory if the SAE hardware is cheaper than metric. So, cost can override any kind of "all metric" policy (if there is such a thing).

So...it's possible that you may run across some new things that are SAE.

 

[nevets]

most everything tool i own i have in both metric and SAE since i use both alot. My truck has SAE and alot of Machines that i work on have a mix of both SAE and metric which gets annoying. i couldnt do with just one or the other though.

 

[nissan_crawler]

Airbus and Rolls Royce use SAE fasteners? That's like a roll reversal of everything else.

Industrial compressors made here mostly all still use SAE and a lot of ferry bolts.

I know for a fact Rolls Royce turbines are all SAE. Well, the AE3007's, at least.

 

[matthew]

I know for a fact Rolls Royce turbines are all SAE. Well, the AE3007's, at least.

Yes, but that's originally an Allison design

Standards tend to have long lives. My father told me he once needed to use a Whitworth wrench on an Airbus - couldnt' find anything else SAE or metric that would fit! I think it was some piece of electrical equipment, perhaps had one supplier worldwide...

 

[William Payne]

I have noticed some european tool companies still have some whitworth tools for whitworth fasteners.

 

[Brad54]

My 2001 Dodge Dakota is a combination of metric and standard fasteners.

That's the newest vehicle we own, by almost 30 years.

Trailers, home repair stuff, tool and shop equipment, etc. etc. all use SAE here.

-Brad

 

[oldtools]

America is the only country that still use SAE. Wish America would have completely switch to the metric system by now. Boeing airplanes are built all over the world, so I wouldn't be surprise if they contain metric fasteners.

 

[mtkst19]

to the original poster-- i'd just have a little space in your box for sae. this is what i do. all my tools are metric. yet i keep a set of -an wrenches, sae, and whitworth in the box along w/ sockets. the sae gets used the least. really only time i use sae is when someoen replaces something they lost or broke.

most common size sae i use is 1/4 inch--as everyone buys cheap *** hose clamps to replace the tension spring clamps on german cars. use it so much that bought a wiha flex shaft nut driver to use for hose clamps. i already owned the 5-13mm set.

 

[Andy Griffith]

Just out of curiosity, are Kenworth over-the-road trucks SAE or metric these days? I would assume manufacturers of OTA trucks like Volvo would be metric?

Peterbilt, Mack... do they even make Peterbilts and Macks anymore?

Thanks

 

[abstamaria]

Happy New Year!

My wife has a 1952 MG TD and she makes me work on it.

It also has a split personality with the body and chassis using mostly Whitworth threads (BSW) and the engine using mostly metric threads with a few BSF thrown in just to keep it interesting. So far, all the fasteners I have removed and/or replaced have had Whitworth heads.

It's great there is at least someone else on this forum with a T series, WHT. Yes, the strange Nuffield metric with the Whitworth head and the unusual metric thread. You are lucky all your bolts seem original. SAE fasteners replaced some of the Whitworth items on my car sometime in its life, so I have been sorting that out the last 16 years. Enjoy the TC and your Whitworth wrenches and sockets.

 

[cglasgow]

Cool -- more T-car fans! I've a '51 TD myself.

And yes, "Lord Nuffield's Mad Metric" is exactly that!

My other MGs keep my SAE wrenches occupied, and the TD ensures I use Whitworth occasionally. Although I also have modern cars (Japanese and German, respectively), I don't own much in the way of metric tools -- just the basics. I don't want or need to wrench on the modern stuff very often....

Cheers!

 

[abstamaria]

That makes at least 3 of us with MG Ts and Whitworth in our toolboxes.

 

[abstamaria]

Re: "SAE" Wrenches - the correct term?

Having said that, is "SAE" the correct term for the current standard inch-based system? I know there is UNC and UNF, but am uncertain whether "SAE" is the right collective name for the present "not-metric" standard. Just plain ignorance on my part, so please let me know, so I may label my tool drawers correctly.

To answer my own question, it seems the correct name for the current inch-based (as opposed to metric) thread standard is "Unified" or "Unified Standard," which includes Unified Standard Fine and Unified Standard Coarse. I am assuming that the agreed Unified standards specify head sizes as well; if that is true, then one should refer to wrenches and sockets that fit Unified bolts and nuts as "Unified" or "Unified Standard" wrenches and sockets. I assume "Unified" refers to fact that, by adopting its parameters, the U.S., Canada, and English have agreed to a single standard (for pitch, diameter, fit, etc.).

I am not sure where "SAE" fits in, although the Society did set some thread standards before, which may have been adopted in the Unified system. "SAE" hardly ever cropped up in the quick and dirty research I did, which included a quick review of Carroll Smith's classic book on nuts and bolts (which he wanted to name "Screw to Win," by the way).

No one refers to wrenches and sockets as "Unified" either.

Snap-On, in their catalog, I think distinguishes these tools from their metric equivalents by simply referring to them as "inches." Proto seems to use "standard," which I suppose is linked to "Unified Standard." "Standard," however, is a bit confusing, as metric is the new "standard."

On my tool cabinets, I simply used "sockets, inches" as against "sockets, metric." This makes it simpler for friends who come help with the work know where to find and store things.

As in many things, I could be completely wrong here, so please correct me.

Regards,

Andres

 

[Vinko]

Think funiture, construction fasteners, garage door, gate hardware, plumbing fasteners and fittings, elec fittings, lag bolts, pretty many things.

Also a lot of large machine tools are still SAE. Including band saws and cutting saws made by US co's. Getting the nut off a miller welder to change the tank takes a 1-1/8.

 

[Vinko]

Never worked on an aircraft that used metric fasteners

I know nothing about aircraft, but this surprises me. I'd have thought they'd all use metric now. What kind of aircraft?

Surely large ones, like Airbus and whatnot use metric, right?

 

[Vinko]

Hmmm, the last few things I used my SAE wrenches on were air couplings,

That's a good one. Also, IR and Dotco pneumatic tools. At least the 231c IR gun and the newest of the Dotco that I've used. Use 3/4" and 11/16" for the Dotco I think.

My German made Metabo has a 5/8" spindle nut. Use a wrench for that.

 

[Vinko]

A 7/16" or 3/4" might be virtually identical (within a few thou) of 11mm or 19mm, and I wouldn't have any issues with substituting, but I find it's easier to have both so you don't have to jump between sets for the right tool. If it's loose fit you might get away with substituting metric/SAE, but it's probably not a good idea...

From the Classifieds here, I bought some beat to **** S-O SAE sockets that someone had used metric on and over time, it really seemed to chew into them. My Snappy driver said he'd seen it before.

 

[Vinko]

I'm a mechanic at a real big plant. I only use SAE. I don't even have a metric set at work.

What do you work on in the plant?

 

[Vinko]

Expanding on that point, I doubt manufacturers will turn away from SAE because of possible cost reductions.

Nothing really too much to do with your post, but I've seen quite a few screw machines being sold on the secondary market. A lot of smaller shops that made fasteners selling of their still good American machinery.

 

[Vinko]

Re: SAE and Rolls Royce

In this regard, Carroll Smith (the fastener guru) noted that, in WW II, when the British installed Rolls Royce engines in an American fighter (I think the Mustang), the problem was that the plane then utilized two different bolt standards, as there was not a single inch-based system then.

I remember reading that. Also wasn't there more than 1 inch based system in Britain alone?

 

[Vinko]

America is the only country that still use SAE. Wish America would have completely switch to the metric system by now.

I hope we never change. It's down right Pinko to even think in metric.

 

[Vinko]

Re: "SAE" Wrenches - the correct term?

To answer my own question, it seems the correct name for the current inch-based (as opposed to metric) thread standard is "Unified" or "Unified Standard," which includes Unified Standard Fine and Unified Standard Coarse. I am assuming that the agreed Unified standards specify head sizes as well; if that is true, then one should refer to wrenches and sockets that fit Unified bolts and nuts as "Unified" or "Unified Standard" wrenches and sockets. I assume "Unified" refers to fact that, by adopting its parameters, the U.S., Canada, and English have agreed to a single standard (for pitch, diameter, fit, etc.).

I am not sure where "SAE" fits in, although the Society did set some thread standards before, which may have been adopted in the Unified system. "SAE" hardly ever cropped up in the quick and dirty research I did, which included a quick review of Carroll Smith's classic book on nuts and bolts (which he wanted to name "Screw to Win," by the way).

No one refers to wrenches and sockets as "Unified" either.

Snap-On, in their catalog, I think distinguishes these tools from their metric equivalents by simply referring to them as "inches." Proto seems to use "standard," which I suppose is linked to "Unified Standard." "Standard," however, is a bit confusing, as metric is the new "standard."

On my tool cabinets, I simply used "sockets, inches" as against "sockets, metric." This makes it simpler for friends who come help with the work know where to find and store things.

As in many things, I could be completely wrong here, so please correct me.

Regards,

Andres

Can't offer a correction but how does the old USS fit into your scheme of "SAE" to be a synonym for Unified? I think in contemporary usage (as displayed on this board), SAE is a stand in for unified, but whether it's accurate or not, I'm not sure.

 

[marpat]

All of the fasteners on my american made hobart mig welder are SAE

 

[Kev442]

Had to use a 1 1/8" wrench today to tighten my toilets nylon coupling. I immediately thought of this thread!

 

[Edinnj]

Working on a Mercury outboard, Mercruiser inboard, or inboard/outboard you would use standard wrenches constantly.

 

[Bran Diezel]

front end work on newer pickups are gonna want 7/8 - 1 1/8 wrenches where you cant fit sockets on the ball joints.

if you wanna scrape by on the smaller sizes you still need them all really. i work on everything 59 to present and still use SAE about 10% of the time. pulling a power steering pulley you can use 14, 16, 17, 21 but the tool is actually 9/16, 5/8, 11/16, 13/16.

14 wont fit all the 9/16 you still find on some newer stuff.

1/4 and 3/8 are not interchangeable with metric sizes.

gm ignition modules are 9/32 or 7/32 if i can remember right.

you said you have sockets in sae but dont think you need wrenches. what kind of reasoning is that? just because you have metric sockets doesn't mean you don't need metric wrenches? LOL!

just get a set 1/4-1 1/8, then you will be asking if you need stubbies, short, long and offset box... the answer then will be yes you do!

 

[BQuicksilver]

Well, since you dug the thread up, I call it good reasoning to not own tools you rarely use. I am space-limited, so I try to keep my toolbox functional and not be a collector. Heck, I just ordered some Wera drivers last night...I could have ordered probably 300 screwdriver variants, but I bought 14 and really only use 4 regularly. It isn't good reasoning to have those other 286 drivers cluttering my box.

I understand we all have different applications for our toolsets, and for many or you not having an SAE wrench set would be crazy. That said, 90% of my work over here is on vettes/imports/new domestic cars. I just haven't ran into enough SAE fasteners to warrant the space for wrenches.

 

[rsanter]

concidering I have 5 60s mustangs, I use them on those

bob