Safety code

[Micscience]

Hey guys whats up. Someone is working on my mothers house and he is not going by code. He routed a few switches and a junction box maybe a little bit more. He installed a junction box on the wall and routed the wire on the outside of the wall instead of the inside. Can anyone give a good reason to stick with the safety code besides safety? like does installing electrical circuits out of the safety code requirements de-value the house?

 

[chamoisfive]

Electricity can Kill! At the very least, it will Bite!
Tasks like yours should always be done to code, by a professional so that: the home owner has a backup if things go wrong; your insurance company will back you up when your house catches fire from well-meaning-but-incompetent-wiring work.
Work done to a code equals to a Standard. Non-standard work leads to sloppy work, like putting stuff onto the outside of the house. What else will a sloppy person get up to?
Yes, an out of code (non-compliant, or illegal) work can devalue your house. It certainly does here.
Hope you're able to resolve your concerns amicably
My .02 cents worth.

 

[pattenp]

If the house is ever sold most likely a home inspection will be requested by the buyer. Any electrical found not to code will be required to be fixed or the price of the house be adjusted to cover the cost of fixing.

 

[Micscience]

Thanks guys. I agree with your point chamoisfive. I have mentioned that to my mother but when I bring up code it's like they are looking at me like (here we go again) type of an attitude. It pisses me off because they think I'm just trying to be an ***. This is pretty much what I

 

[nehog]

Can you take some pictures of what he is doing?

 

[G_P]

Yeah pictures would help. If he is running the wires on the outside of the wall something is odd.....But if he is running the wires outside the wall inside conduit thats probably fine by code.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Also, mention where you're located - the regulations can vary depending on what state or country you live in.

 

[KenC]

Yeah pics would help. Or at least a description of the code violation. Just because it looks bad, it may not be a violation. MC or conduit outside the wall may not look good, but is perfectly code legal, and safe.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Subscribing cause Im curious. Unfortunately, theres not enough info to go on here OP....pics would be best!

 

[Micscience]

Ok. The wall I am referring to is in a stairway from the basement to the first floor. I'll post them

 

[CNGsaves]

What country ??? City / state ??


Any local enforcement authority that INSPECTS electrical for proper safety??

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The Romex is definitely not to code. Just think what could happen if someone bangs into the exposed Romex. Geez. U get what u pay for. This definitely wouldnt pass an inspection! Plus its UGLY! Fire that guy. Get someone who really knows what theyre doing!

The MC/BX is fine.

 

[sberry]

It doesn't de value it any more than the junk next to it. Should have torn it apart to run the wire in the first place. This doesn't mean a pinch of **** in the grand scheme of things, at least there is a box and some staples.

 

[nehog]

Pandora says "Damn, I opened the box, didn't I?"

It appears there is old wiring that doesn't meet code. There clearly is new wiring that doesn't meet code. This work was not done by a professional. If that gets inspected, there is quite a bit of work that will have to be done to fix the problems. But to answer the original question: yes, it need to be in conduit.

 

[Micscience]

United States of America New Bedford Mass home of the new world series champions <cough>

I forgot to mention this is the same guy who wanted to install a 20 amp outlet onto a 15 amp 14 gauge circuit. I had to tell him not to do that and his response was he did it in his house and it works. o.0 The reason being the power kept going out upstairs when the air conditioner and iron was turned on simultaneously.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Not to mention things like this can affect your insurance... especially say if the house catches on fire and it is caused by wiring that was not installed to code... guess what... you are sol...

 

[G_P]

I would say its safe to assume the guy doing this work is NOT a licensed electrician.....

 

[matt151617]

I would say its safe to assume the guy doing this work is NOT a licensed electrician.....

Which means turning the guy in is always an option- although your mother will end up having to hire someone else to fix it properly.

 

[nehog]

Which means turning the guy in is always an option- although your mother will end up having to hire someone else to fix it properly.

I think this is going to happen anyway. No question he's a hack, and over his head. One might want to contact the state licensing authorities as he's an accident waiting to happen.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Just noticed that theres both yellow and white Romex that junction in the round box towards the top of the pic. Better hope that guy didnt put #14 on a 20a circuit!!

What a mess!

 

[spotco2]

Stuff like that is common around here. Heck, I've seen many times on old houses where someone wanted to add a few outlets and just drilled through the wall and ran the wire under the overlap of the siding on the outside of the house. A few staples and a little paint and nobody will ever see it.

Usually it's a homeowner that is to cheap or can not afford a licensed electrician. Sometimes it's a handyman and his job is to do the work the cheapest way possible.

Is it right? No. Will the house burn down because of it? Probably not.

That old house probably has a lot more serious issues than just this.

To the OP....could your mother honestly afford a licensed electrician to come out and do the work or is she cutting cost by letting a handyman do it?

 

[sberry]

I forgot to mention this is the same guy who wanted to install a 20 amp outlet onto a 15 amp 14 gauge circuit. I had to tell him not to do that and his response was he did it in his house and it works. o.0 The reason being the power kept going out upstairs when the air conditioner and iron was turned on simultaneously.

The solution is obvious,,, do it yourself. You seem to know a lot about safety code.

 

[bczygan]

It hurts to see that.
I'm sure our members will help you to do it right .

 

[wyliesdiesels]

United States of America New Bedford Mass home of the new world series champions <cough>

I forgot to mention this is the same guy who wanted to install a 20 amp outlet onto a 15 amp 14 gauge circuit. I had to tell him not to do that and his response was he did it in his house and it works. o.0 The reason being the power kept going out upstairs when the air conditioner and iron was turned on simultaneously.

The guy really doesnt know what he is doing or talking about if he thinks changing a 15a receptacle with a 20a receptacle will solve nuisance tripping and circuit overloading because the circuit still has the same ampacity. Also, as u said, u cant put a higher rated outlet on a circuit such as a 20a recepticle on a 15a circuit. BUT, u CAN put a 15a receptacle on a 20a circuit!

 

[G_P]

Maybe he meant the guy put a 20a BREAKER on a 14ga 15a circuit. That would solve nuisance tripping but could easily start a fire. Just like how you still find old fuse panels today that are full of 30a fuses. People got tired of the 15a fuses blowing so they just put a bigger one in. Or even worse stuffed a penny in the socket for unlimited amperage until the wire melts!

 

[Sureshot]

Maybe he meant the guy put a 20a BREAKER on a 14ga 15a circuit. That would solve nuisance tripping but could easily start a fire. Just like how you still find old fuse panels today that are full of 30a fuses. People got tired of the 15a fuses blowing so they just put a bigger one in. Or even worse stuffed a penny in the socket for unlimited amperage until the wire melts!

Git'er done

 

[May Pop]

The sad thing is if that mope was a real electrician he could have done it in conduit in only a few more minutes.

 

[sberry]

What sas is the reality of it all, the place is looks like a box of junk and probably some old guy trying to do good, help out some broad aint got no money with a know it all son breathing down his neck, it looks like a capitol improvement if you ask me,,, but all the direct decendants of Edison here will get it all straightened out.

Whip out your checkbook for 400$ or so for a couple hr service call then if you aint happy. Or,,, we could get some guys here to run over maybe do it for free for his sorry *** instead of going all mushy.

 

[sberry]

You never know. This new wire, one with a grounding conductor, well stapled and boxed junctions for all practical and realistic purpose here is comparatively safe vs who knows what some guy may have by passed. ???????????????????????????????????????????

I went to a house not too long ago. The lights flicker in the garage and a spark sometimes from pipe to panel they were trying to insulate with rubber. So,, whassup. The old fart previous has installed 2 conductors thru an old water pipe for 240 and used the pipe as neutral for 120,,, been like this for 50 yrs. People live here, they use the garage, a couple fools trying to use an old welder in it???

They aint gonna pay, no money, no how. You can say I may not have been code compliant to disable a switchloop he had for outdoor and double it up in both panels and use as N, I disconnected the bond at the water line,,, some day,,,, some fool will post a pic of this on the net and say what a hack.

 

[sberry]

You don't know what went on here, maybe she is intent on running a room heater or overlading some deal and while not perfect may serve the load safely and the big issue here for me would be,,,, at least on a technical level is what did he do with the ground wire, is this a new back to a panel, it is a switch loop? Does it hook on to an ungrounded overloaded deal with hi new load or for a convenience?

I saw a suicide plug to a trailer addition made from an end and a 3way somehow, backfed from 2 outdoor recepts to each other outside under a drip edge.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

MAn sberry, uve seen a lot of hacked sh*t!

 

[sberry]

How long have you been doing this?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

How long have you been doing this?

Who me? ~12yrs....why?

 

[fireguy]

I would say its safe to assume the guy doing this work is NOT a licensed electrician.....

Was a permit obtained, and an inspection? But he was cheap!

 

[eddie1278]

Why do you think this is not to code? I'm an electrician myself and this common in a basement in older homes. Nothing in the NEC prohibits NM cable from being installed on the surface. The NEC requires NM cable to be protected from physical damage WHEN NECESSARY. Your local AHJ may have a different say on this.

Although it's not the prettiest I wouldn't be worried about the safety of this. Your service on the outside of your house has a large NM cable running down it to the meter without physical protection(unless your house was done in conduit) with a lot more amps going through it.

It's not going to spontaneously combust and the odds of that getting damaged are slim to none unless you have ninjas in your basement

The other NM cable is there and did the house burn down?

I love how armchair electricians think they know the code and how to do things.

I personally would have sleeved the romex in pipe up to the header.

 

[eddie1278]

The sad thing is if that mope was a real electrician he could have done it in conduit in only a few more minutes.

Probably was a real electrician but the owner beat him down on price like most do. So he paid the minimum and got the minimum.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Why do you think this is not to code? I'm an electrician myself and this common in a basement in older homes. Nothing in the NEC prohibits NM cable from being installed on the surface. The NEC requires NM cable to be protected from physical damage WHEN NECESSARY. Your local AHJ may have a different say on this.

Although it's not the prettiest I wouldn't be worried about the safety of this. Your service on the outside of your house has a large NM cable running down it to the meter without physical protection(unless your house was done in conduit) with a lot more amps going through it.

It's not going to spontaneously combust and the odds of that getting damaged are slim to none unless you have ninjas in your basement

The other NM cable is there and did the house burn down?

I love how armchair electricians think they know the code and how to do things.

I personally would have sleeved the romex in pipe up to the header.

I would argue that this location would be subject to physical damage. Just think of someone carrying stuff such as furniture up the stairs and bumping into the wire.

NM used as a service entrance cable?? Ever read NEC 334.12? It states NM is NOT PERMITTED to be used as a service entrance cable. Also, 230.43 does not list NM as a suitable wiring method for service entrance cable. Better read your handbook closer...

 

[eddie1278]

NM cable for a service entrance?? 230.43 does not list NM as a suitable wiring method for service entrance cable between meter an weatherhead. Where do u see its allowed?

You are joking right? SE cable is a NM cable...

 

[sberry]

Who me? ~12yrs....why?

I would have figured somewhere shortly before or after a journeyman test.

 

[Speedy Petey]

The Romex is definitely not to code. ...............

The MC/BX is fine.

What's funny is MC provides NO protection from physical damage over NM cable in the eyes of the code.

Both ARE also allowed to be installed exposed.