Safety Switch Vs Main Lug Load Center

[600SL]

I am interested in running 240V to my lathe and splitting off 120 to an additional duplex receptacle to run accessories.

There are safety switches and main lugs as shown below.

In this scenario I would need to put two wires into each load terminal screw. I remember having a home inspector telling me that that was a no-no. but yet I see it done all the time.

Would either of these work. I would prefer to use the main lug CB style because it is cheaper and more compact.

An aside question why are all the AC service disconnect now use a removable bridge instead of a knife switch. I hate those.

It I go with the safety switch will I need a three pole or can I use a two pole and just splice the neutrals or install a neutral bar.

Also does the neutral get bonded to ground or not.

https://www.platt.com/platt-electri...3-Pole/Eaton/DG321UGB/product.aspx?zpid=10561

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...door-Main-Lug-Load-Center-QO2L30SCP/100157760

 

[sberry]

If you want 120/240 use a 6 space panel. They cost about the same. It needs 4 wire feed, you need a ground lug and the neutrals stay insulated. This allows each thing to get its own proper breaker.

 

[600SL]

If you want 120/240 use a 6 space panel. They cost about the same. It needs 4 wire feed, you need a ground lug and the neutrals stay insulated. This allows each thing to get its own proper breaker.

Really don't have room for a 6 space panel. Unfortunately those get big. And the circuit size will be 20 amps max. Lathe is in the middle of the room so it gets plugged into the ceiling with a 4 prong plug. I cant seem to find a 4 space.

Is there such a thing as a breaker with 1/2 size 4 poles and the center two bridged for 240V and the outer two independent 120's?

 

[600SL]

Think I may have found it.

https://www.platt.com/platt-electri...eakers/Eaton/BQ2302120/Product.aspx?zpid=6321

 

[sberry]

A6 space is compact, the whole thing will cost what that breaker cost. I have done this before, you are trying to complicate and searching etc. There is no better way than I tell you here, make room for it.

 

[600SL]

A6 space is compact, the whole thing will cost what that breaker cost. I have done this before, you are trying to complicate and searching etc. There is no better way than I tell you here, make room for it.

I found them at 1/2 the price here:

https://www.gordonelectricsupply.co...process~search~qdx~0~ds~dept~text~HOMT1515220

I just ordered 3 of them because I already have the small Square D load centers installed on my lift and mill. Gonna do the same for those.

Thanks

 

[pattenp]

Those Eaton Quad 30/20 breakers can be gotten at Lowes for $20.

 

[pattenp]

I found them at 1/2 the price here:

https://www.gordonelectricsupply.co...process~search~qdx~0~ds~dept~text~HOMT1515220

I just ordered 3 of them because I already have the small Square D load centers installed on my lift and mill. Gonna do the same for those.

Thanks

Do you not have a Lowes near you. The SQ-D Quad 20/15 is about $18.

 

[Norcal]

I am interested in running 240V to my lathe and splitting off 120 to an additional duplex receptacle to run accessories.

There are safety switches and main lugs as shown below.

In this scenario I would need to put two wires into each load terminal screw. I remember having a home inspector telling me that that was a no-no. but yet I see it done all the time.

Would either of these work. I would prefer to use the main lug CB style because it is cheaper and more compact.

An aside question why are all the AC service disconnect now use a removable bridge instead of a knife switch. I hate those.

It I go with the safety switch will I need a three pole or can I use a two pole and just splice the neutrals or install a neutral bar.

Also does the neutral get bonded to ground or not.

https://www.platt.com/platt-electri...3-Pole/Eaton/DG321UGB/product.aspx?zpid=10561

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...door-Main-Lug-Load-Center-QO2L30SCP/100157760

Use a small loadcenter not a safety switch, 4-6 space would be fine.

A "service disconnect" disconnects the service entrance conductors, a disco on a A/C unit, or other piece of equipment is just a disconnect, mentally challenged A/C service techs persist in applying the service disconnect labels that are supplied with safety switches to them, as to the pullout style discos VS safety switches, it's all about cost pullouts can be bought for $10, safety switches are a more expensive with a lot more options & accessories.

The neutral is only bonded to the grounding conductor at the service equipment.

 

[alfredeneuman]

In this scenario I would need to put two wires into each load terminal screw. I remember having a home inspector telling me that that was a no-no. but yet I see it done all the time.

It I go with the safety switch will I need a three pole or can I use a two pole and just splice the neutrals or install a neutral bar.

Also does the neutral get bonded to ground or not.

Most Home Inspectors don't know their asses from their elbows when it comes down to electrical installations, but in this case he is right. To avoid this double lugging scenario just splice the 2 wires to a 3rd with a wirenut and connect the single resulting (pigtail) wire to the lug.

The neutrals shouldn't be switched or bonded to ground.

You could use the same wirenut method with the neutrals as with the active conductors

 

[600SL]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

I just go back from HD and purchased the QO2-4L70S Load center. It has two spaces and 4 circuits. The one I showed on the milling machine has two spaces and is only for two circuits. This one is for up to 70 Amps and is just a bit larger but It will certainly fit the lathe and I will know if the mill and lift will work with the quad CB when I get them.

I'm not sure what 2 circuits means, I will have 1 240V circuit and 1 120V circuit with only 1 neutral coming out. It appears the smaller unit only has 2 neutral lugs and the larger one has 4 so this may be overkill except the 1/2 size Square D breakers have a hook that wont allow them to be installed in the smaller unit, not sure what the quad breakers will be like.

Neither Lowes or HD by me had these breakers but they are on order right now and at a reasonable price.

 

[600SL]

And I just realized that those CB's aren't going to fit. So I have to go back and get a Homeline version of that box, which allegedly they have in stock.

 

[brewchief]

And I just realized that those CB's aren't going to fit. So I have to go back and get a Homeline version of that box, which allegedly they have in stock.

And a homeline is square d and not going to be listed to be used with an eaton breaker.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

NEVER bond neutral to ground past the first main disconnect!

 

[600SL]

And a homeline is square d and not going to be listed to be used with an eaton breaker.

I ordered Square D see previous post. They were 1/2 the price.

 

[600SL]

Well here it is waiting for the breakers.

I decided to put a plug off the lathe instead of hard wire because the lathe and back get moved separately.

Didn't have a red wire so I just pig tailed it for now. I believe that may be a code violation for 12 ga wire.

Speaking of code violations will this circuit work with a GFIC outlet? That is the only unprotected 120V receptacle I have below 10ft.

 

[sberry]

The installs look good.

 

[600SL]

The installs look good.

Thanks: Its just like you had suggested but scaled down and at a reasonable price.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Well here it is waiting for the breakers.

I decided to put a plug off the lathe instead of hard wire because the lathe and back get moved separately.

Didn't have a red wire so I just pig tailed it for now. I believe that may be a code violation for 12 ga wire.

Speaking of code violations will this circuit work with a GFIC outlet? That is the only unprotected 120V receptacle I have below 10ft.

Not following you on the code violation on the wire.

And why wouldnt the circuit work with a GFCI.

 

[600SL]

Not following on the code violation on the wire.

And why wouldnt the circuit work with a GFCI.

I thought I had to have red and black wires for a 240V circuit. Years ago it was acceptable to run all black wires for the larger wires like #6 or larger because colors were not readily available so we just taped the ends with colored tape.

So my comment was I didn't have a 2 ft piece of 12 ga wire in red so I taped the end of the white one with red tape. In this case its obvious where its going but wasn't sure it was technically legal.

I wasn't sure how a GFIC would play with power coming off one leg of a motor load so close especially during motor start. But I guess it happens at the main panel all the time. So I guess you are saying no issues. I will pick up a GFIC Thanks.

 

[matt_i]

Cant you just run a control transformer for your machine accessories? This sounds like a lot of work. That's how the machine tool manufacturer would handle lights, DRO, etc, for the lowest cost.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I thought I had to have red and black wires for a 240V circuit. Years ago it was acceptable to run all black wires for the larger wires like #6 or larger because colors were not readily available so we just taped the ends with colored tape.

So my comment was I didn't have a 2 ft piece of 12 ga wire in red so I taped the end of the white one with red tape. In this case its obvious where its going but wasn't sure it was technically legal.

I wasn't sure how a GFIC would play with power coming off one leg of a motor load so close especially during motor start. But I guess it happens at the main panel all the time. So I guess you are saying no issues. I will pick up a GFIC Thanks.

aww ok i see what youre getting at.

there is no requirement for the ungrounded conductors to be colored a certain color.

However u cant use white or green for the ungrounded conductor. So u should switch it to black or red.

Also, u cant phase tape on #6 and smaller so neutral and ground would need to be white or green jacketed respectively.

 

[600SL]

Cant you just run a control transformer for your machine accessories? This sounds like a lot of work. That's how the machine tool manufacturer would handle lights, DRO, etc, for the lowest cost.

I could do that but this was way easier and way cheaper. $40 for the panel and breaker and I got about 1800W available for my plug. Plus I also got the disconnect capability I needed which was really the main motivation for starting this project. You will not find an 1800W transformer for $40 and then you still need a disconnect switch of some kind.

 

[600SL]

aww ok i see what youre getting at.

there is no requirement for the ungrounded conductors to be colored a certain color.

However u cant use white or green for the ungrounded conductor. So u should switch it to black or red.

Also, u cant phase tape on #6 and smaller so neutral and ground would need to be white or green jacketed respectively.

Dot worry my conscience will probably get to me before the CB arrives, and I will head down to HD and pick up 3 two foot sections of #10 THHN in red white and black. Along with a GFIC receptacle and cover plate.

 

[600SL]

All done works great. Thanks for all the replies.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

sweet.

Little cramped for my tastes but other than that nice setup

 

[600SL]

sweet.

Little cramped for my tastes but other than that nice setup

It the old argument I have at all the corporations I worked at. 6S cost real estate and money. I would like to find a 20 or 30 amp version of that box but I don't think it exists in 4 circuit.

 

[63spyder]

Can anyone tell me why you can't phase tape a 6 or smaller wire, safety issue ? Or one of those head scratchers . Thanks

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Can anyone tell me why you can't phase tape a 6 or smaller wire, safety issue ? Or one of those head scratchers . Thanks

its code and a As far as rationale u would have to research the code making panel that came up with that code.

 

[Norcal]

its code and a As far as rationale u would have to research the code making panel that came up with that code.

And it goes back a long time.