Sail shade support

[Bojans]

I recently built a new deck and now need to install an 18' x 18' sail shade over the 20' x 20' deck. Two corners of the shade will be attached to the house but the other ends will need posts off the end of the deck. The deck sits roughly 7' high so to have 9' of head height and bury 3' in concrete I will need 20' long posts. I have looked into 4" steel pipe and that looks to be cost prohibitive. I was thinking of getting 3" or 4" PVC pipe and filling it with concrete along with some rebar. This looks to be a much more cost effective solution and I could paint the PVC so from a distance it would not be as noticeable.

Do you think this would be strong enough? Any other ideas?

 

[Brian R]

I think you will need more than 20' of pipe. For a shade sail to work it needs to be extremely tight and have no slack in it (else it will rip apart in wind and rain). You will need to put your post at an angle [ \ ] away from the house in order to mount shade sail and then cinch extremely tight and not bend the pole.

Don't see pvc with concrete and rebar as as workable solution.

 

[metal1313]

i dont think the pvc and concrete will be strong enough. wind gusts can produce sharp strong forces. and once you get the pipe, rebar, and amount of concrete you need its going to be pricey, and a ton of work.

i just checked and 4in sch 40 pipe is around 200 for a 21ft stick. if you space them out from the edge of the deck and use a winch to tighten the fabric it should work. but at 21ft legnths i would still think about filling the pipe with cement.

maybe find telephone poles?

 

[Bojans]

Where did you find schedule 40 steel for $200? I was quoted $375 a stick + delivery

 

[metal1313]

well its online metals, but local supply houses should be about the same, and its the same as steel plumbing pipe of the right grade. call more places, i assume you got quoted for tube, not pipe.

 

[51rider]

How about scaffold poles?
You can get them in good lengths, excellent torsional strength & new ones with a bright zinc coating will offset against the decking quite nicely.

If you want to go the whole hog you could incorperate some stainless wire stays with turn buckles to help keep everything taut.

 

[R_Willis]

Might want to talk to these guys:
http://www.thenaturalhome.com/shadecloth.htm

 

[Jack Olsen]

4" pipe seems like overkill.

 

[Bojans]

Thanks guys. Called a buddy who does structural work, said if I were not in a climate that sees freezing temps the PVC with concrete and rebar would work, but if I get any concrete fracture and water ingress it would kill me. He suggested schd 40 4" steel and fill the void up to 1' above grade with concrete and stick a piece if rebar in it. Interestingly enough for 16' above grade he is saying I need 8' below. Seems overkill but when I was seeing 45 mph winds today I guess better safe than sorry.

 

[tck4x4]

I put up a 18'X18' shade sail over my patio last year. I used 3.5OD tube with 1/4" wall for my posts. Obtained from a local conveyor company. I used 21' long pcs with 4' below ground level and 17' out of ground. This worked just fine and I am able to tighten the sail nicely. But when we get high winds (over 40mph) you can see the posts deflecting about 3" at the top. I do not think any concrete filled post would stand up to the bouncing up/down of the sail. You can also use wood for the posts, laminate 3 layers of 2X6 to make a 6" square post, offset the seams to make longer than 20' pcs. Round off the corners with a router and paint white. They will disappear.

 

[tck4x4]

Oh yea, posts were $80 each, but I got them at cost and they were not galvanized. I painted a couple of coats rustoleum on them.

 

[Bojans]

OK, so I am resurrecting this from the dead. I have found that I can buy 20' treated 6x6 for $75 each or 8x8 posts for $200 each. Is a 6x6 sufficient?

 

[Jack Olsen]

We'd be able to tell a lot more if you posted a picture of what you're trying to do, and also the area where you live.

Are you planning on just posts, or posts and galvanized cable to hold the corner in tension?

 

[Bojans]

thanks Jack, will do that tonight

 

[Automatic Slim]

Good info here.

Bought a cheap sail thought about hanging, but gawd almighty, looks like a grand in structure to hang a 30 dollar sail.

Any recommendations on offset patio umbrellas?? thx & serious

 

[cyamaha2007]

I guess im cheap. I can buy the tapered galvanized light poles for 50 bucks at a local steel yard that deals in used material also. Since they are tapered they dont sell fast.

 

[JakeKohl]

I had a brand new sail for a small catamaran stolen from me while at a week long event a year ago. I hadn't even put it up the mast yet. I figured it ended up as a (free) $1,700 shade in someone's backyard.

 

[paqman]

Oh yea, posts were $80 each, but I got them at cost and they were not galvanized. I painted a couple of coats rustoleum on them.

Sorry, resurrecting this thread once again, because I'm curious how your sail held up. What brand of sail/where you got it, and how long it lasted. I can't seem to find any thick walled steel posts around me without paying an arm and a leg, so I am probably going to do 6x6 treated lumber. But I see 20 foot square sails on Amazon for around $100, and wondering if those are going to be any good.

 

[48RON54]

Sorry, resurrecting this thread once again, because I'm curious how your sail held up. What brand of sail/where you got it, and how long it lasted. I can't seem to find any thick walled steel posts around me without paying an arm and a leg, so I am probably going to do 6x6 treated lumber. But I see 20 foot square sails on Amazon for around $100, and wondering if those are going to be any good.

X 2, my wife won't stop talking about th ese sail shade things. Let's here how they hold up.

 

[paqman]

X 2, my wife won't stop talking about th ese sail shade things. Let's here how they hold up.

There are some pretty good looking quality ones built by "Shazeebo", but for a 18" square one with mounting hardware (not counting posts), it's close to $600. Versus about $125 for the Amazon ones. There's a middle ground, "Coolaroo", but not sure how much better those are than the ones on Amazon. The Shazeebo's have steel cable all around and rock solid stiching. I was trying to keep this project under $500. Plus I figure I can always upgrade the sail later if the dimensions are the same. You can go even further with a commercial one for around $1500. LOL

 

[67carl]

I used 2 collapsible flag poles from HF. Dug a hole, filled with concrete and a PVC pipe with a diameter slightly larger than the flag pole. Got nursery shade cloth and grommets on-line from Gempler's, stainless cable and misc hardware from HF. Attached the grommets, ran the stainless cable through them, then through carabiners at the pole tops which I slide into the PVC, then extended the poles up (2 corners on the house, other 2 on the poles). The poles themselves are not near strong enough to support the weight without folding over so I also attach ropes to the same carabiner as the cable. When I extend the poles up I pull the rope in the opposite direction that the cable is pulling and tie it to a tree. Works fairly well and once it's set up it goes up and come down quickly.

It was cheaper to make my own and you can get some pretty big sizes. I got the black 80% block and it's not as dark as you'd think. It does make a big difference in temp on the deck.

http://www.gemplers.com/shade-cloth

 

[paqman]

I used 2 collapsible flag poles from HF. Dug a hole, filled with concrete and a PVC pipe with a diameter slightly larger than the flag pole. Got nursery shade cloth and grommets on-line from Gempler's, stainless cable and misc hardware from HF. Attached the grommets, ran the stainless cable through them, then through carabiners at the pole tops which I slide into the PVC, then extended the poles up (2 corners on the house, other 2 on the poles). The poles themselves are not near strong enough to support the weight without folding over so I also attach ropes to the same carabiner as the cable. When I extend the poles up I pull the rope in the opposite direction that the cable is pulling and tie it to a tree. Works fairly well and once it's set up it goes up and come down quickly.

It was cheaper to make my own and you can get some pretty big sizes. I got the black 80% block and it's not as dark as you'd think. It does make a big difference in temp on the deck.

http://www.gemplers.com/shade-cloth

That sounds nice, I'm just looking for something a bit more permanent. But way to engineer your own solution. DIY FTW.

 

[ChevyEFI]

It seems like the triangulation of supporting structure across the tops of the poles would be one way to leave the main poles thinner and fewer wind worries.