Sawstop professional 30” demo deal

[Mikemac1]

Hi Folks,

Wondering if there are any woodworkers here that can share their experience. My local sawstop dealer is willing to make a deal on a store demo saw. It hasn’t been used, just sitting on the floor. Its the professional 1.75 cabinet saw with 30” premium fence. I plan on building some shaker style doors for my kitchen (they are 40.5” tall) some built in’s, a kitchen island, will serve to cut hardwood flooring, making basic drawer units for my shop...

So here are my concerns:

Is 30” enough ?
Is the “premium” fence a hinderance? I was looking at the 36” contractor originally but the salesman mentioned the motor sticking out of the back can be a pain for some. The dust collection is better on the cabinet style units apparently.

Opinions? He mentioned 20% off - I might be able to push that further with a cash deal.

Ps. I have a track saw for rough breakdown if needed.

Thanks!



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[PNWguy]

A 30" fence will get you to the center of a 4' panel, so unless you're crosscutting full sheets of plywood, you should be fine on width. You've got the track saw, so it sounds like you're OK. It's smaller than ideal, but not the end of the world.

The regular fence is a good one, but the "premium" is a step down (I hate marketing people). It's probably much nicer than any jobsite fence. When you're at the store, lock the fence and wiggle it side to side from the far end. It shouldn't move much more than 1/8".

My thoughts on SawStop: It's a good saw, in the same class as a new Powermatic, probably slightly better than Jet. Probably not quite as nice as an older Unisaw or PowerMatic 66 or 72. However, it's far superior to any jobsite saw.

Why is it better you ask? It's much heavier and has lots of cast iron. That extra mass helps reduce vibration and noise. With a really good blade ($100+) you'll get amazing cuts in hardwood. It can handle a dado blade, which not all jobsite saws can.

$2,500 is probably the going price, and 20% off would be nice.

The fence isn't any different than a wider saw; the fence rail is what's wider. If you ever wanted more saw, you could buy a wider rail and a filler panel (or possibly make the panel). Ask the salesman.

I'd happily give up 6" of cut capacity for a much better saw. Take this over the contractor saw all day, every day.

PS: It's expensive to set off the brake. Make sure you really understand what will set it off, and how to check before cutting a questionable material. I've seen 50+ blades with the brake embedded in them (I work in funny places), and it's almost always from a staple, hitting the miter fence, etc.

Have a spare blade and cartridge on hand. Also be aware that you'll need a dado cartridge if you're running a dado blade.

 

[Mikemac1]

A 30" fence will get you to the center of a 4' panel, so unless you're crosscutting full sheets of plywood, you should be fine on width. You've got the track saw, so it sounds like you're OK. It's smaller than ideal, but not the end of the world.

The regular fence is a good one, but the "premium" is a step down (I hate marketing people). It's probably much nicer than any jobsite fence. When you're at the store, lock the fence and wiggle it side to side from the far end. It shouldn't move much more than 1/8".

My thoughts on SawStop: It's a good saw, in the same class as a new Powermatic, probably slightly better than Jet. Probably not quite as nice as an older Unisaw or PowerMatic 66 or 72. However, it's far superior to any jobsite saw.

Why is it better you ask? It's much heavier and has lots of cast iron. That extra mass helps reduce vibration and noise. With a really good blade ($100+) you'll get amazing cuts in hardwood. It can handle a dado blade, which not all jobsite saws can.

$2,500 is probably the going price, and 20% off would be nice.

The fence isn't any different than a wider saw; the fence rail is what's wider. If you ever wanted more saw, you could buy a wider rail and a filler panel (or possibly make the panel). Ask the salesman.

I'd happily give up 6" of cut capacity for a much better saw. Take this over the contractor saw all day, every day.

PS: It's expensive to set off the brake. Make sure you really understand what will set it off, and how to check before cutting a questionable material. I've seen 50+ blades with the brake embedded in them (I work in funny places), and it's almost always from a staple, hitting the miter fence, etc.

Have a spare blade and cartridge on hand. Also be aware that you'll need a dado cartridge if you're running a dado blade.

Thank you so much for this advice. I think everything you said rings true.

Ps I wish the Canadian pricing was $2500


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[mike93lx]

Everything you noted could easily be done with a track saw or decent jobsite saw. A $2500 saw won't make the cabinets any prettier.

It sounds like you aren't very experienced with woodworking. Great if you have the money to spend, but a cheaper saw might make sense until you understand what you really need.

 

[Mikemac1]

Everything you noted could easily be done with a track saw or decent jobsite saw. A $2500 saw won't make the cabinets any prettier.

It sounds like you aren't very experienced with woodworking. Great if you have the money to spend, but a cheaper saw might make sense until you understand what you really need.

You are 100 percent right - I am not overly experienced with woodworking. Other than rough framing, decks/ fence - and high school shop class. I have lots of experience with hvlp turbines from when my father has a finishing company. Hundreds of cabinet doors spray finished. I loathe that but I can do it.

I’m looking at sawstop because I make my living behind a keyboard - I need all my digits. Also, I have three amazing children I involve with everything I do - otherwise I’d be buying a rigid saw for $500.

I looked at parallel guides, the mft table etc. I can’t imagine obtaining the accuracy of a table saw with either of those.

My track saw gets used often - straight rip lumber for accuracy, cutting wedi board, don’t laugh - drywall. I was a boarder for 2 years in my youth and was pretty good. I just cut it with my track saw and CT36AC nowadays. 1/16 accurate and no dust. (Am living in a Reno house).


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[RKA]

I think the T glide is nicer to use, but the “premium” will do the job as well and will be far better than what you get on inexpensive job site saws.

As to the length, sizing cabinet panels will be easier with the 36”, but you do have the tracksaw and with a little extra care, that could handle that task. The 36” also leaves you room to put a router table into it later.

I would inquire about any discount your dealer could throw your way to get the t glide fence. If he could throw it in at cost, it might be something worth considering. It’s still not cheap, but buying new at a later time would probably erase the savings on the demo saw.

 

[pcmeiners]

Have a pro Sawstop with the 36" T-glide, only got to use it for a short time before Sandy got it, that another story. Damn heavy cast iron unit, takes up a good piece of real estate. Like you I had kids in mind when purchasing. If not for young ones I would have purchase a Unisaw.

 

[PNWguy]

I’m looking at sawstop because I make my living behind a keyboard - I need all my digits. Also, I have three amazing children I involve with everything I do - otherwise I’d be buying a rigid saw for $500.

You can still mangle yourself with a SawStop - be very aware of kickback, and never remove the rivving knife.

Spend some time on YouTube with J Katz-Moses, The Wood Whisperer, Four Eyes and Jay's Custom Creations - all are pretty good craftsmen who value quality over "YOU CAN MAKE THIS JANKY TABLE FROM OLD PALLETS!!!!!" drama bs.

I looked at parallel guides, the mft table etc. I can’t imagine obtaining the accuracy of a table saw with either of those.

The MFT table is pretty damn good. I bet it would be better than a jobsite saw for most work, and better than a cabinet saw for fullsize sheets (because of the experience it takes to feed a 4x8 into a table saw).

As a new woodworker, I'd recommend knocking down the full sheets to within 1/2" or 1/4" with the track saw, then make the final cut on the table saw. It'll help you improve both skills.

 

[neophyte]

Everything you noted could easily be done with a track saw or decent jobsite saw. A $2500 saw won't make the cabinets any prettier.

It sounds like you aren't very experienced with woodworking. Great if you have the money to spend, but a cheaper saw might make sense until you understand what you really need.

Track Saws are not and never have been a replacement for a table saw.
They’re a replacement for a Panel Saw, although with with the ability to cut diagonals.
For a table saw to do the large sheet lumber cutting jobs of a Panel Saw or track saw safely, you really need to add a large homemade or aftermarket accessory table, or a large sliding table, or a bunch of work supports.
The exception are larger sliging table saws like Felders, and SawStop doesn’t make that type of saw anyway.
Tablesaws are better for precisely dimensioning sheet goods that have already been cut down close to size, as well as cutting precise joints etc.

 

[mike93lx]

Track Saws are not and never have been a replacement for a table saw.
They’re a replacement for a Panel Saw, although with with the ability to cut diagonals.
For a table saw to do the large sheet lumber cutting jobs of a Panel Saw or track saw safely, you really need to add a large homemade or aftermarket accessory table, or a large sliding table, or a bunch of work supports.
The exception are larger sliging table saws like Felders, and SawStop doesn’t make that type of saw anyway.
Tablesaws are better for precisely dimensioning sheet goods that have already been cut down close to size, as well as cutting precise joints etc.

A track saw can absolutely replace a table saw for the vast majority of work. Sure, you aren't cutting joinery like m&t or box joints but dimensioning is fine

Easily viewable proof is Peter Millard on YouTube. A complete shop that would fit in most of our sheds with almost everything cut on a table saw.

A track saw can very precisely cut down sheet goods. Oversize cutting then recutting on a table saw is a waste. Different story if you a freehanding it with a circ saw

 

[Minnesota Steve]

I have a PCS 1.75hp with the 36" T-glide and love the saw. It's really a nice saw.

The 30" fence isn't nearly as nice but it is workable. Worst case you can add the 36" fence. You'd have to call sawstop to order the parts... rails, fence and whatever screws and bolts might be needed. I checked their website and it's about $300, not sure on shipping. When you order a new one it's like a $200 upgrade... so I'd say with the 20% off you are still way ahead.

I'd do it. It's a nice saw.

 

[neophyte]

A track saw can absolutely replace a table saw for the vast majority of work. Sure, you aren't cutting joinery like m&t or box joints but dimensioning is fine

Easily viewable proof is Peter Millard on YouTube. A complete shop that would fit in most of our sheds with almost everything cut on a table saw.

A track saw can very precisely cut down sheet goods. Oversize cutting then recutting on a table saw is a waste. Different story if you a freehanding it with a circ saw

Half the point of a table saw is the ability to precisely cut joints.
The problem is, most people are using a table saw for work that is way easier to do with a panel saw.
Also, most track saws can only be safely used with the track, like the Festool TS saws or the Mafell MT saws.
Saws like the Festool HK and HKC saws and the Madell K saws are the exception to this.
If you purchase a track saw, then you really need a table saw as well, even if it’s just a precise benchtop model.

 

[Dumber than lumber]

Back in the '80s I was advised on table saws that one should buy the best that he can afford. New or used was not a criteria.
Nowadays I think that Festool has sort of changed that approach. I am really impressed how versatile and portable the Festool line of saws (and other machines) is. And the accuracy is every bit as good as one gets with a Biesemeyer fence, and a costly miter gauge.

 

[jar944]

30 is ok, 52 is better.
1.75 is enough 5hp is better

I'd keep going but if you like it, want it and can afford it then just buy it.


As for the "you can do with less" sure, but time is money.. buy the biggest and best (woodworking) tools you can or in other words there is no replacement for dis.. err cast iron

 

[Mikemac1]

I have a PCS 1.75hp with the 36" T-glide and love the saw. It's really a nice saw.

The 30" fence isn't nearly as nice but it is workable. Worst case you can add the 36" fence. You'd have to call sawstop to order the parts... rails, fence and whatever screws and bolts might be needed. I checked their website and it's about $300, not sure on shipping. When you order a new one it's like a $200 upgrade... so I'd say with the 20% off you are still way ahead.

I'd do it. It's a nice saw.

Just called the dealer. the 30" setup is $306 CDN, the 36" T glide is $534. He will do the upgrade for the cost difference. $228. I think I'm puling the trigger

 

[RKA]

That's nice that he was willing to do that for you. Now hurry up before someone else runs in there and beats you to it!

And FYI, I looked for a used sawstop for a while before buying new. The few used ones that did come up would go quick if they were listed at 70-75% of new price. Nothing was offered lower than that. So you're doing pretty good at 80% of new retail and with a full warranty.

 

[amguttin]

I am a very experienced woodworking at time it was my only source of income. I have to admit, I am not infatuated with sawstop. They are nice saws. Nicer then an old school powermatic or well set up Unisaw? I say no and realistically twice the price.

 

[mike93lx]

It isn't about getting the best saw. It is a good saw with a very expensive feature that is worth the premium to a lot of people.

Just don't buy in because of the hot dog tests. If your hand is moving at the speed an accident usually happens at (a slip while pushing stock through) you are still getting messed up, just not as bad

 

[topcok88]

Having spent plenty of time around the Unisaws and PM’s prior to my ownership of a 3HP SS PCS 52” with ICS base I wouldn’t consider anything else. The dust collection is amazing. The table adjustment for alignment is amazing. The factory fence is great and the only better alternative is the Incra. The serpentine/variable speed drive belt is super quiet and vibration free. The fit and finish is great, the packaging was superb and the assembly instructions are the best I’ve ever encountered. If cost is a consideration then maybe a new cabinet saw isn’t the right choice. Obviously the price difference in the portable saws is pretty drastic ($500 for a really good saw versus the $1400 for a SS portable saw), the contractor saw isn’t much different, but cabinet saws aren’t really that bad. I think my PCS was only a few hundred more than a comparable Powermatic. Now the Grizzly 1023 is around $1500 but those lesser prices saws are not near the fit and finish of a SawStop or Powermatic.




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[zktk01]

It isn't about getting the best saw. It is a good saw with a very expensive feature that is worth the premium to a lot of people.

Just don't buy in because of the hot dog tests. If your hand is moving at the speed an accident usually happens at (a slip while pushing stock through) you are still getting messed up, just not as bad

Most important, don't let that safety feature lul you into a false sense of security and do riskier things than you would with a normal saw.

 

[Mikemac1]

Most important, don't let that safety feature lul you into a false sense of security and do riskier things than you would with a normal saw.

I don’t trust anything in my shop. I treat tools as if they are trying to kill me. I am the softest thing in the shop. I keep that in mind always. My neighbor must think I’m nuts - chainsaw chaps, face shield and ear mufflers when I use a string trimmer @ 30c. Sweating my balls off... but also been hit with debris while trimming and was thankful for the outfit I had on.

Basically I have access to Laguna, Sawstop, Ridged and King. I’ll pay the sawstop “tax”. It’s what is in every high schools shop in my city - my local shop has a couple of spent brakes / blades with the school name engraved on the blade. So it must work well enough.

I am very thankful to this community for offering such good, varied and experienced based advice.

 

[Grant Gunderson]

I looked at parallel guides, the mft table etc. I can’t imagine obtaining the accuracy of a table saw with either of those.

I find that I am actually more accurate with my track saw then using a table saw, as the track saw is way easier to manage, which allows me to be more precise in all of my cuts.

The only time that I find the Fesstool track saw system lacking is when making narrow cuts. Thats why I am also looking at picking up a SawStop for those instances. If you already have a good track saw setup and don't plan on doing massive dado's with the SS, then SS you are looking at will be more than adequate.

 

[HMCFab9]

JMO, but I'd buy anything Other than a sawstop.

I have a Powermatic & I love how nice it cuts.

 

[MushCreek]

The good news is that if you build your own cabinets, the saw will pay for itself. True custom cabinets are serious money. I did all of the wood work, including all custom cabinets in our new house. I use a circular saw with a straightedge to break down sheets of plywood, and my Ridgid table saw for finish work. HD was dumping their cast iron table saws for $350 after they came out with a granite table model. Despite lots of use and moving it around, the saw has never needed to be re-aligned. I'm a tool maker by trade, so I know what 'accurate' is.

Table saws, and most wood working machines scare the **** out of me. Next time I win the lotto, I'll replace mine with a SawStop. Until then, I'm really, really careful.

 

[Flathead Youngin']

I thought I'd never find anything that I liked better than my two Delta Unisaws. I REALLY like them. I taught wood shop for 15 years and always thought the SS was untested and gimmicky. Well, I wound up picking up an Amazon return- bought it out of my own pocket for the shop. And, I'll tell ya, the SS was a pleasure to use. Honestly, I didn't miss either of my Uni's. The SS is Very well built and I second every single thing topcok88 said about his.


The other shop teacher had the contractor saw. It was equally as good....keeping a quality, sharp blade in it, I couldn't tell much difference in 1.75 and 3hp. The motor does stick out, but in a shop setting you're most likely gonna have an out feed table anyway. I didn't really like the stamped steel table extensions as compared to the pro model cast ones.


The fence was great, the dust collection was excellent, the accessories worked perfectly.....I'm sold

 

[PNWguy]

JMO, but I'd buy anything Other than a sawstop.

I have a Powermatic & I love how nice it cuts.

I consult & teach in machine shops and fab shops around the country. I frequently use the SawStop cabinet saw and newPowerMatic saws.

They are almost interchangeable in terms of quality, except all the PMs seem to have an incorrectly printed pare measure - off by 1/64 per inch.

The safety feature of the SawStop matters to the OP. It matters enough to buy the saw. It's a good one.

 

[PNWguy]

Just called the dealer. the 30" setup is $306 CDN, the 36" T glide is $534. He will do the upgrade for the cost difference. $228. I think I'm puling the trigger

That's awesome!
In spite of all the people screaming "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG" and arguing about track saws, it's a high quality saw. At this point, it's capable of making better parts than your skill level will allow. You'll have plenty of time to grow into it.

I don't think you'll ever need to upgrade, unless you have more space and start making really big stuff - then my might go for a 52" fence. But this is the last table saw you'll need to buy.

Congrats!

 

[Farmerjonathan]

Bosch has entered the market of saving digits with a table saw. Easier to change out when tripped, does not ruin your blade. Either way, being a grandpa myself, before any of the grandkids work on a table saw it will be a safer one. I know all the comments about relying on the safety, well I teach them safe measures but we also are human and I will not be responsible for cutting off my grandchildren's fingers when a prevention is available.

 

[Duker]

In a nutshell, as others have said the SawStop is a quality saw and the safety feature is worth the premium in my mind but that is my basis not necessarily the OP's. All I can add is for the work I do building furniture, if I had to choose one saw between my Griggio or Wadkin Sliding saw, Powermatic 72 or Delta 12/14 and my SawStop I would take the SawStop. Not because its the best saw but because it offers the most value to me and what I do which also includes building things with my kids and teaching others to build furniture. Even with the best safety practices accidents can happen so that is why to me the premium for a SS is worthwhile. My grandfathers 1950's Sear's 8" saw can build the same quality furniture as any other saw I use but just not as efficiently or as safe.

 

[The Fall]

Most of the guys at the shop preferred the Delta. In two decades of business (custom cabinetry), we had two table saw accidents. One was just some nerve damage. The other...well, I won't go into details.

I would always use the Saw Stop.

 

[RKA]

*snip*
...if I had to choose one saw between my Griggio or Wadkin Sliding saw, Powermatic 72 or Delta 12/14 and my SawStop I would take the SawStop.

Is anyone else feeling...ahem...inadequate?

Anyway, somehow this entire thread followed the inevitable path of Sawstop vs. no Sawstop. Just a reminder, the OP's question was about Sawstop options.

 

[topcok88]

Is anyone else feeling...ahem...inadequate?



Anyway, somehow this entire thread followed the inevitable path of Sawstop vs. no Sawstop. Just a reminder, the OP's question was about Sawstop options.

As a SS owner the factory upgradable T-Glide fence is much better than the other “premium” fence. The only better option IMO would be getting the “premium fence” and going to a Incra. The only downside to the Incra is the space it takes right if the extension wing.


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[jar944]

Is anyone else feeling...ahem...inadequate?

If it was Martin or late model Altendorf then possibly.

 

[Duker]

If it was Martin or late model Altendorf then possibly.

I agree on the Martin but that’s like saying who wouldn’t take the AMG Mercedes versus the station wagon! [emoji4]

And while later model Altendorfs are very nice ( I had an older 90 and my dad a 45) for the same period saws I would take my Griggio version over them any day.




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[Duker]

Is anyone else feeling...ahem...inadequate?



Anyway, somehow this entire thread followed the inevitable path of Sawstop vs. no Sawstop. Just a reminder, the OP's question was about Sawstop options.

It’s a business so it’s tooled up for that, and even it is a little overkill but I was able to get some great machines when the market tanked in ‘08 at prices I couldn’t pass up. I feel the same way when looking at the Tool Box thread and those Snap On boxes!

You were correct about the original intent of the thread. I got carried up reading the responses. My apologies for taking us further off topic.


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[jar944]

I agree on the Martin but that’s like saying who wouldn’t take the AMG Mercedes versus the station wagon! [emoji4]

And while later model Altendorfs are very nice ( I had an older 90 and my dad a 45) for the same period saws I would take my Griggio version over them any day.




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Nothing against the griggio, or older altendorf. Both are in my price range for used saws whereas the new altendorfs or most Martin's are more than I'm willing to spend.

 

[catron44]

30 is ok, 52 is better.
1.75 is enough 5hp is better

I'd keep going but if you like it, want it and can afford it then just buy it.


As for the "you can do with less" sure, but time is money.. buy the biggest and best (woodworking) tools you can or in other words there is no replacement for dis.. err cast iron

If it was Martin or late model Altendorf then possibly.

jar944 is on point! I design full custom cabinets professionally and the shop I work in has a 2014 Martin T-70, an Altendorf from 2007 and a 5hp sawstop with a 52" fence.

To the OP:

I personally have a Ridgid 3650 at home. I have built cabinets with it before I was in a professional setting and the 36 is a huge upgrade over a 30. The sawstop is an awesome saw. Solid fence, cast iron, etc. the quality is top notch.

Be careful what you cut with it. If the wood is wet, or you hit a nail/staple, you will trigger it. As stated above, keep a spare blade and cartridge on hand. The good news is (if you can call it that), if you trip it with your skin, sawstop will replace the cartridge at no charge. We've tripped ours 5 times in the last 4 years, only once was by skin and that was just last week.

My suggestion to you is find a CNC shop that will cut box parts for you so you can focus on the doors. There are 2 shops I know local to me in CT that provide these services to cabinet shops. There are a few online that I don't have personal experience with but are probably fine. This would make the boxes ready to assemble to your specs, drilled for hinges and shelf pins. The cost is very reasonable due to the volume pricing they get on plywood vs what you can expect to pay at a big box store for crappy plywood. You can order the carcasses in prefinished maple too so you don't waste time spraying.

Another thing you'll need are plenty of clamps. bessy K body would be best.

If you can swing it, a drum sander from jet or supermax would be a time saved to flush your door rails and Stiles. An alternate plan would be to see if you can get some time at a local shop that has a wide belt sander.

I think that's about all for now, if you want any more info, feel free to PM me.

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[usdemt]

I will never spend a dime on anything Sawstop. The idea is good however the inventor is a lawyer and with that power has stopped all further innovation in table saw safety with countless lawsuits. There is and was better technology then Sawstop out there but has all been shut down for his profits. The deal is Sawstop doesnt care about safety, they care about money.

Also losing a saw blade and an expensive recharge kit everytime it cuts wet wood is crazy. Bosch had a far superior product a few years back that was also stopped by frivolous lawsuits of sawstop.

The owner of sawstop is also now making bank as a lawyer or expert witness trying to mandate/regulate all table saws have his technology in them. It's a disgusting monopoly of power that has halted a lot of good safety innovation in the industry.

 

[MushCreek]

The only time I came close to being injured by a table saw, I had it grab a chunk of maple and fling it past my head. It happened only about an inch or so into the cut, so most safety devices wouldn't have helped. I don't think the SawStop would have helped, either. I did learn to be even more careful, and keep important body parts out of the line of fire.

 

[RKA]

The Sawstop is useful in a kickback in the following sense. As the wood gets drawn into the back of the blade it rotates at the same time. If your hand is pushing the stock directly and not a push stick or other safety device, it can get drawn into the blade. If your hand was within 12” of the blade and in direct contact with the wood, you would be at risk. Should your hand make contact with the blade, the brake will activate and limit the damage the saw will do to your hand.