SawStop Test
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Bill Anderson
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I thought this might be of interest to show. Recently had an employee test out the new SawStop.Luckily all he received was a nick on his finger. Surprisingly the blade was still usable.
The saw just paid for itself.
Awesome!!! Good to know that it held true to the promise! And yeah, it definitely just paid for itself many times over.
And I love it when people hates on Sawstop, and they say things such as "I very very careful, I don't need one of those things." or "I am so careful that I can pull my hand out of the way, before anything bad can happen"
And yes, sadly, they're serious.
Did you send the 'Save' in to Sawstop so they can post it on their site? IIRC, if you send the info in, they will send you a new brake cartridge.
Thanks for posting.
Bill Anderson
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Oh, and I love your Chevelle! What are they called across the north border? I like that front panel design. Kinda gives it a 64 Lemans/GTO front end look.
4 speed Big Block?
4 speed Big Block?
matt_i
Well-known member
Great technology. The main issue now seems to be "false trips" which are costly/time consuming. I read an article on their own design of tablesaw which has a conductivity meter built in so that something like wet pressure treated wood can be tested ahead of a cut and a control limit "window" set so it doesn't false trip.
beakie
Well-known member
I thought this might be of interest to show. Recently had an employee test out the new SawStop.
The saw just paid for itself.
Lucky guy, can he remember what mistake was made to cause that situation?
Be interesting to measure blade run out before/after an "event"
I don't "hate" on the technology as it has proven it's worth time and time again, the creator though... him I could do without.
I don't think "haters" are completely wrong in regards to safety issues though. The SS saves you on contact with the blade only.
It does nothing to prevent kick backs, pinching (riving knife on any saw helps remedy that) or other issues other than skin contact with the blade.
Bill Anderson
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I've had one for around 10 years, and haven't had one false trip. Awesome saw, best one the market in its class, ime.
Bill Anderson
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Need i say more?
Nah, just be wasting words.
Okay, can't resist, the riving knife prevents kickback, 99% of thr time, just threw tha # out there, again, in ten nearly years, I've never even come close to a kickback. Can it happen? Sure! But the user would have to be negligent in selecting and/or prepping the wood to be cut, or purposely trying to cause a kickback. I suppose there are those people out there. But no technology can protect if someone is hellbent on being stupid.
And yeah, I'm glad guys like Gass are out there otherwise these types of innovations would never make it to market. They would be crushed by the huge manufacturers that want to do one thing. Maximize profits!
Look how long we lived with ****** blade guards, and half-arsed riving knives. None of that changed/improved until Sawstop hit the market, and the govt mandated change. Same with seat belts, anti lock brakes, air bags, fuel efficiency standards, and the list goes on and on. But you're probably against those too.
And why else would you need a braking syste, other than when contact with skin is made?
But back to the OPs intent of his post. Thank you for posting your experience OP. Much appreciated?
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Need i say more?
Nah, just be wasting words.
Okay, can't resist, the riving knife prevents kickback, 99% of thr time, just threw tha # out there, again, in ten nearly years, I've never even come close to a kickback. Can it happen? Sure! But the user would have to be negligent in selecting and/or prepping the wood to be cut, or purposely trying to cause a kickback. I suppose there are those people out there. But no technology can protect if someone is hellbent on being stupid.
And yeah, I'm glad guys like Gass are out there otherwise these types of innovations would never make it to market. They would be crushed by the huge manufacturers that want to do one thing. Maximize profits!
Look how long we lived with ****** blade guards, and half-arsed riving knives. None of that changed/improved until Sawstop hit the market, and the govt mandated change. Same with seat belts, anti lock brakes, air bags, fuel efficiency standards, and the list goes on and on. But you're probably against those too.
And why else would you need a braking syste, other than when contact with skin is made?
But back to the OPs intent of his post. Thank you for posting your experience OP. Much appreciated?
you do know the whole story about that guy right? how he tried to force the gov. to mandate his technology (licensed by him of course) on every manufacturer out there, even though the market has continued to demonstrate that it is not desired by most/not enough demand to make it viable at all price points?
this has been debated so many times on other forums I won't say any more, but keep in mind, he is just as profit driven as every other business out there. If he was really this great inventor, trying to help mankind, he would have went about it completely differently.
Cyberbear
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To some safety is paramount above everything else, and if being safe can save one from terrible accidents, I'm all for it. I've found that most regulations made mandatory usually require a degree of freedom be surrendered in the process. But when regulations under the presumption of safety imposes restrictions on a personal right, liberty or freedom, I begin to wonder if we are on a slippery slope. Safety is great as long as no government agency makes being personally safe mandatory, with punitive action if not followed, sorta like seat belts or motorcycle helmets. Big Brother is still with us everyday, and was it B. Franklin who said those surrendering precious freedom for a measure of temporary safety, deserve neither. Where do we draw the line? It should all come down to choice and personal consent. MHO
turbowoodworker
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Why can't we just agree that this is a personal choice and shut up. It's as bad as the presidential primaries!
Todd.Brock
Well-known member
Glad to hear your employee is ok. ! This technology still amazes me on the speed at which it can sense moisture and STOP the blade with nothing more than a nick on the dudes finger.
I imagine he had to change his shorts after that happened!!
I imagine he had to change his shorts after that happened!!
Why can't we just agree that this is a personal choice and shut up. It's as bad as the presidential primaries!
Saw Stops are a taboo topic at some forums because of how heated the discussion(s) can get, personally have no desire for one, as no longer buy Asian stationary power tools.
Bill Anderson
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Evidently, you didn't take time to research the whole story.
why did something happen in the last 5 years? I didn't research it, I was around when it unfolded...I admit I haven't been involved in the safety industry in several years, but I do remember very clearly the letters and documents he filed...as well as some of the negotiations at that time.
reader2580
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Many insurance companies are requiring businesses and schools to replace table saws with Sawstop, or lose coverage or face large premium increases.
If I ever upgrade my table saw it will be a Sawstop because it is a nice saw with a bonus safety feature.
If I ever upgrade my table saw it will be a Sawstop because it is a nice saw with a bonus safety feature.
Bill Anderson
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Cyberbear, If a driver is going down the road, and something causes that person to swerve, and lose control of the car, crashing into another car, bc he wasn't wearing a seat belt, therefore the seat belt couldn't keep the driver in the driver's seat even momentarily, then is the consequences/damages/suffering only limited to him? Then that person's choice to not wear the seat belt affects other people's lives. So if u could crash your car and you could somehow only limit the damage/pain and suffering or even death to yourself, then yeah feel free to cut that seatbelt right out of your car. But u cannot control that, so the govt mandates it. Btw, please wear your seatbelt, we like having you here.
When i was younger and dumber, i had a motorcycle, and rode without a helmet. Going down the highway at 70mph, a bumblebee flies right in front of me, and i get smacked right between the eyes with not a small bumblebee, but what seemed to be a full grown bumblebee the size of your thumb. Eyes immediately water, and its all I could do to keep it under control.
Now say I would have lost control and crashed into someone and killed their husband/wife/kid, just bc i thought it was an infringement on my right to ride without a helmet? When the potential for damage or loss of life doesn't only affect the primary person, but reaches out and damages or takes the life of another person, then it ceases to be a personal choice at that point. Your personal choice doesn't trump the lives of others.
The govt is not coming into your shop and mandating your personal shop practices, what they are mandating is, that the manufacturers must do what's necessary to ensure the tools available to you are as safe as possible. They are not mandating you have to purchase them, just that they are safe as current technology will allow. The govt could care less if you want to chop your fingers off, but they mandate safe tools for those of us that want to keep our fingers.
And Gass didn't go to the govt until the big tool manufacturers tried to quietly crush him, and brush it under the rug. Then they hired a lobbying group to fight the technology coming to market. I'm very glad Gass took the actions that he did. If he hadn't the OPs employee wouldbe minus 3 or 4 fingers. Instead he has the equivalent of a paper cut.
Ok. I agree, we're beating a dead horse. If after beating your head into a brick wall trying to get it to move, and the wall doesn't budge, well...then...we just have to let the brick wall alone and walk around it.
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PCMusicGuy
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Cyberbear, If a driver is going down the road, and something causes that person to swerve, and lose control of the car, crashing into another car, bc he wasn't wearing a seat belt, therefore the seat belt couldn't keep the driver in the driver's seat even momentarily, then is the consequences/damages/suffering only limited to him? Then that person's choice to not wear the seat belt affects other people's lives. So if u could crash your car and you could somehow only limit the damage/pain and suffering or even death to yourself, then yeah feel free to cut that seatbelt right out of your car. But u cannot control that, so the govt mandates it. Btw, please wear your seatbelt, we like having you here.
When i was younger and dumber, i had a motorcycle, and rode without a helmet. Going down the highway at 70mph, a bumblebee flies right in front of me, and i get smacked right between the eyes with not a small bumblebee, but what seemed to be a full grown bumblebee the size of your thumb. Eyes immediately water, and its all I could do to keep it under control.
Now say I would have lost control and crashed into someone and killed their husband/wife/kid, just bc i thought it was an infringement on my right to ride without a helmet? When the potential for damage or loss of life doesn't only affect the primary person, but reaches out and damages or takes the life of another person, then it ceases to be a personal choice at that point. Your personal choice doesn't trump the lives of others.
The govt is not coming into your shop and mandating your personal shop practices, what they are mandating is, that the manufacturers must do what's necessary to ensure the tools available to you are as safe as possible. They are not mandating you have to purchase them, just that they are safe as current technology will allow. The govt could care less if you want to chop your fingers off, but they mandate safe tools for those of us that want to keep our fingers.
And Gass didn't go to the govt until the big tool manufacturers tried to quietly crush him, and brush it under the rug. Then they hired a lobbying group to fight the technology coming to market. I'm very glad Gass took the actions that he did. If he hadn't the OPs employee wouldbe minus 3 or 4 fingers. Instead he has the equivalent of a paper cut.
Ok. I agree, we're beating a dead horse. If after beating your head into a brick wall trying to get it to move, and the wall doesn't budge, well...then...we just have to let the brick wall alone and walk around it.
At first I was thinking, what if you had an open face helmet? That wouldn't make any difference. Then I thought about what if it was a closed faced helmet, but instead of a bumblebee, it was a big rock that cracked the shield resulting in a loss of control and some unfortunate turn. Certainly wearing a helmet is a smart decision when riding, but in the vast majority of cases, it only affects the individual.
I don't know about the SawStop history, or much about table saws in general, but it would not be surprising to me that the other table saw manufacturers would have tried to run him off. They are protecting their own bottom line. The government shouldn't be the ones mandating safety for tools though. That should be driven by the manufacturers and the market. Aren't their other means of protecting your hands while using table saws such as push sticks, board holders, etc? The SawStop seems like a pretty great safety feature from what I've seen on youtube, but I would think there are other ways to keep your hands away from the blade. Perhaps that just my inexperience with table saws talking.
Bill Anderson
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Unfortunately, accidents happen when we least expect. So while there are others ways to protect your hands such as the blade guard, most people removed them bc the guards of the past sucked, and were often times were themselves unsafe. Many people would end up removing them. Thats another thing Sawstop did, was to redesign the blade guard so its actually usable/functional without being unsafe.
Like another has stated. 'I bought it because it was an amazingly well built saw. All the safety features are just bonuses.
Believing manufacturers to bring new innovative safety features to market, is like believing kids will do what they're supposed to do...without their parents telling them.
Like another has stated. 'I bought it because it was an amazingly well built saw. All the safety features are just bonuses.
Believing manufacturers to bring new innovative safety features to market, is like believing kids will do what they're supposed to do...without their parents telling them.
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beakie
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Actually Bosch is trying to do just that, but the SS creator is fighting them every step of the way so that he can "maximize profits"
You mentioned above
"I've never even come close to a kickback. Can it happen? Sure! But the user would have to be negligent in selecting and/or prepping the wood to be cut, or purposely trying to cause a kickback. I suppose there are those people out there. But no technology can protect if someone is hellbent on being stupid."
Come on, really? "never come close to a kickback" how can you make a statement like that, yet justify the need for a SS saw?
SS is there to prevent horrible damage to the user for that 1% of the time a PREVENTABLE accident occurs. It has saved countless injuries, as has riving knives... but it doesn't prevent accidents like a riving knife does, it reacts to an accident that has occurred and prevent injury after the fact. If the mistake or lapse in judgement doesn't happen than it does nothing 100% of the time.
negligent in selecting the wood to be cut? can you read the unseen stresses that some wood is under? if so please teach us who can not.
Purposely trying to cause kickback? your fighting too hard to make a point.
I have ZERO problem with the technology, and am overjoyed that Bosch is trying to bring their version of the technology to market, they together can save more fingers, hands, arms, lives.
My concern is the users who will never learn to respect the machine, or learn how to use it and the accessories that compliment it in a safe manner.
Schools being mandated to get rid of quality old cabinet saws replaced by modern "safe" saws is silly. How did we, our parents and generations before use these machines without the safe guards in place now?
Now Jimmy learns he "should" use a push stick, but if he doesn't it's ok because the new SS will save him.
May be you're not familiar with European standards, and the saws available to that market, but many "safety" features have been in place for decades, ahead of what has been adopted on this side of the water. Overhead guards, short fences, even simple things like dust collection have been general practice for a long time.
I admire your passion for the SS name/technology, and your own personal SS saw, but often passion causes us to be blind to what others see as common sense.
SS is a very good saw, but it is not the best table saw available, and it certainly isn't the best bang for your buck.
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LB-1911
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I thought this might be of interest to show. Recently had an employee test out the new SawStop.
The saw just paid for itself.
Thanks for sharing..... Did ya have a 1 sided conversation after the fact?
i'd like to have one, but the cheapest sawstop version on amazon was $1400 for a portal one ("normal" ones of similar size sell for ~$200-$300). so paying $1000 more isn't in the cards for me. i would guess most would be willing to pay an extra $100 or so for the feature.
if this article is correct, it looks like the patents will expire in ~5 years:
https://www.quora.com/When-do-Sawstops-patents-expire
if this article is correct, it looks like the patents will expire in ~5 years:
https://www.quora.com/When-do-Sawstops-patents-expire
countryroad82
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They're called Beaumont. Cool weird oddities from up north
But yes awesome ride! Great to see the Sawstop works as it should.Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
I don't have a SawStop but there was one time I wish I had of had one. I was pushing a piece of wood through the saw and "accidently ran the blade of the saw into the tip of my finger. A SawStop saw would have been a cheaper investment that the hospital bill I received.
mikeyr
Well-known member
I would love to upgrade to a SawStop but my Unisaw just keeps on working. I think the tech is wonderful, I do wonder though if people with SawStops are doing stupid or more dangerous things than they normally would do because the expect the tech to work and save their fingers or hands.
As I downsize my shop, I certainly have my eye on the SawStop with the 36" fence instead of my Unisaw with the 50" fence, just to get a little more room here and there and in the shop. Maybe when the patent expires the prices will go down with competition.
As I downsize my shop, I certainly have my eye on the SawStop with the 36" fence instead of my Unisaw with the 50" fence, just to get a little more room here and there and in the shop. Maybe when the patent expires the prices will go down with competition.
Bill Anderson
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"My concern is the users who will never learn to respect the machine, or learn how to use it and the accessories that compliment it in a safe manner.
Schools being mandated to get rid of quality old cabinet saws replaced by modern "safe" saws is silly. How did we, our parents and generations before use these machines without the safe guards in place now?"
Now Jimmy learns he "should" use a push stick, but if he doesn't it's ok because the new SS will save him.
Beakie, thats why you see the old timers missing fingers/thumbs. And, no, its not 'silly' to replace the old saws with new safer saws. Kids especially need this type of technology. As far as "My concern is the users who will never learn to respect the machine, or learn how to use it and the accessories that compliment it in a safe manner." So thats a reason not to even have the technology in place, bc then people will be complacent, and not take the time to use the saw safely? That theory holds about as much water as a bucket full of holes. Who sees a spinning saw blade, regardless if it has a brake, and it does not scare the $#it out of them?
Not trying to hard at all to prove my point, just using an extreme analogy to match your misguided thinking.
We will have to respectfully disagree, bc I'm of new school and yr of the old school. Nothing wrong with that except I'm right and you're wrong
Just kidding, I'm old school on alot of things, this is just not one of them. Peace brother. Have a great weekend!
Schools being mandated to get rid of quality old cabinet saws replaced by modern "safe" saws is silly. How did we, our parents and generations before use these machines without the safe guards in place now?"
Now Jimmy learns he "should" use a push stick, but if he doesn't it's ok because the new SS will save him.
Beakie, thats why you see the old timers missing fingers/thumbs. And, no, its not 'silly' to replace the old saws with new safer saws. Kids especially need this type of technology. As far as "My concern is the users who will never learn to respect the machine, or learn how to use it and the accessories that compliment it in a safe manner." So thats a reason not to even have the technology in place, bc then people will be complacent, and not take the time to use the saw safely? That theory holds about as much water as a bucket full of holes. Who sees a spinning saw blade, regardless if it has a brake, and it does not scare the $#it out of them?
Not trying to hard at all to prove my point, just using an extreme analogy to match your misguided thinking.
We will have to respectfully disagree, bc I'm of new school and yr of the old school. Nothing wrong with that except I'm right and you're wrong
Just kidding, I'm old school on alot of things, this is just not one of them. Peace brother. Have a great weekend!
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Bill Anderson
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Thanks for sharing that Kevin. Students especially need the technology. School shops are closing right and left, and when Jimmy cuts off a finger, that just closes the door to the school shop that much faster, bc of insurance premium increases, parents, school administration, liability etc.
My Old Tools
Well-known member
If I had liability for employees I would probably make the investment. At some point maybe someone will get smart and produce a kit for retrofit, one based on a different approach maybe. In the meantime I have about 40 years on a tablesaw with all digits intact. My dad lived out his life as a woodworker with cheap little Craftsman saws and fences and kept all of his. Can I screw up. You bet. I can also shoot my toe off, lane change at the wrong time (they have systems for that now), and a thousand other potential screw ups. I guess I could just go to bed and stay there, but that's no fun (except in the right circumstances, but I won't go there).
Bill Anderson
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Mike, I can only spesk for myself, but I still respect the blade, and don't just go carelessly ripping boards past the blade. I think of it like this, the technology is there, in the event i need it, but all technology has the possibility of failing, so I still treat the saw as if it could still detach my fingers for me.
And yeah, i hope once the patent expires it will allow this technology to become more widespread.
reader2580
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I believe the issue between Bosch and Sawstop is patent infringement. Sawstop believes Bosch is infringing on Sawstop's patent and Bosch doesn't want to pay license fees.
LS6 Tommy
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CSRPenFab
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Interesting. I work for the largest Workers' Comp insurer in the country, and I'm in the Safety Engineering side of the house. We've never required anyone to buy a Sawstop, nor am I aware of any competitors mandating a particular type of saw.
James E
Well-known member
I mangled my right index finger in my table saw about 18 months ago. Sawstop would probably have drastically minimized my injury. It's awesome technology and I'm certainly glad that the OP's saw had it.
That being said, the inventor is a POS who couldn't work out a deal with the manufacturers and as a result, has spent tons of time and money lobbying to get the government to mandate its use. He's not fighting just the manufacturers, he's fighting everyone who will ever buy a table saw in the future.
So his invention makes a table saw safer. That's undeniable. Does that fact mean that the government should mandate its use on all table saws, thus raising the price above what most owners can afford? Not unless your name is Bernie Sanders or Ralph Nader.
Banning table saws would save the most fingers. Perhaps we should do that--it's the logical extension of the "safe at any cost" argument, and makes just as much sense.
That being said, the inventor is a POS who couldn't work out a deal with the manufacturers and as a result, has spent tons of time and money lobbying to get the government to mandate its use. He's not fighting just the manufacturers, he's fighting everyone who will ever buy a table saw in the future.
So his invention makes a table saw safer. That's undeniable. Does that fact mean that the government should mandate its use on all table saws, thus raising the price above what most owners can afford? Not unless your name is Bernie Sanders or Ralph Nader.
Banning table saws would save the most fingers. Perhaps we should do that--it's the logical extension of the "safe at any cost" argument, and makes just as much sense.
beakie
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while we may disagree, this point is 100% correct, that I will concede.
it just makes me sad knowing that is the world I am raising my boys in.
Crusarius
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Just remember "If you make something idiot proof, they make a better idiot".
reader2580
Well-known member
Your company may not, but I have heard of plenty of schools and businesses who said they got Sawstop because of their insurer.
Ntzabtntr
Member
I attended a local woodworking show a few years ago and was shopping for a cabinet tablesaw as well as a mortising machine. I ended up buying a General International mortising machine and a Steel City tablesaw. I went through all of the booths and put each tablesaw through all of the adjustments, including raising and lowering, tilting and fence function. The Sawstop was by far THE best saw in the bunch... beating out Powermatic, General (not International), Delta, etc. If I would have been able to afford it, the Sawstop would be in my shop today. Nothing to do with the Sawstop function whatsoever. Just an extremely well thought out machine and the fit and finish was superb. Just my unbiased opinion....
Brian
Brian
Bill Anderson
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It's not a Chevelle. It's a Beaumont. A Canadian Pontiac...
Tommy
Thanks for identifying the car guys. Never seen or heard of one of those before. Very cool!
Richard Cranium
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glad the system worked like it was suppose to and your guy wasn't hurt.
jake00
Well-known member
Just got my second one, (8 saws in my shop,). To the guys who have never had an accident, I'd bet you're not running a saw 10 hours a day either.... Most of my saws have feeders or. Extensive guarding in place, but the ones that can't are saw stops... They've saved me 3 work comp claims.....