Saylor Beall Compressor

[djd99]

buying something old brings a lot of things to light

1. there are a lot of great US companies, some of whom are still in business and some of whom that are still in business actually still make things and make them well

- so for example, one of the pictures above (Post #18, middle row, middle) shows the stamped steel tag for the tank mfg - turns out they are alive and well 50 yrs later making tanks for CNG cars and scuba, etc here http://www.pressedsteel.com/

- called SB for a color code to get some paint - turns out they use a company called SP Kish Industries, around since '46, here http://www.kishindustries.com/ , who kindly is sending a swatch since the formulation is theirs and doesn't correlate to something a store could mix

2. How little things change when they are good and correct to start with

- i will call SB with a question and they will fax me over a spec or a schematic from the 80's (or earlier) b/c they have been making it the same way forever

3. How pushing a huge amount of air slowly is a lot easier on the ears then pushing a small amount rapidly

4. How good steel used to be made

- this thing sat out of service for almost 2 years when i bought it - the first (and only) time i fired it up and it went to pressure, about 2-3 gallons of water came out of the bottom - alot - and none of it was rust colored

5. And, like everything else in this world teaches me, how little i know!

OK - enough with the BS and on to some technical questions:

- the cylinder head is stuck to the cylinder b/c the gasket petrified - short of taking a pry bar or screw driver to it (which will gouge the iron), is there another way to get these apart? - heat? - PB Blaster? - any good tips or tricks?

- i am assuming the problem i am having is valves that are stuck open - if it turns out that i can still use the valve train instead of replacing it, what should i use to clean up the varnish and gunk that will be in there? - mineral spirits?

- what should i use to clean out the inside pasages of the pump and the exhaust manifold - when i stick a finger in there there is a bit of an oil film and grime - should i swish it out with mineral spirits? - or a degreaser like simple green? - if the latter, do i need to worry about flash rusting in there?

thanks! [/QUOTE

You don't need heat to pry your head off, a little prying and with a dead blow hammer you should get it to come off, no different than prying a cylinder head off a motor they just take some persuasion to get them off.
Once you have the head off take it completely apart and sandblast the bare head to clean it up. If you don't have a sandblaster soak the head in kerosene and use a stiff brush to get any gunk off it, then take a wire brush once the head is dry to clean the rest of it up.
As for the cooler there's not much you can do the clean the inside just soak it with a good degreaser and blow out what you can.

 

[edl]

OK - so making some progress - the pictures below may not come out in the right order, but basically i was struggling to find a tool to remove the caps - the slot is really big (think cars boys...) - 1 1/8" long, 3/8" wide, and about 1" deep - and it is tapered - so after coming up short, i decided to make my own tool - got a piece of 36" 3/8 flat stock, 1" wide - i cut one piece to be a bit - at the other end of that piece i narrowed it and then drilled a slot in the remaining piece to use as a T handle

worked - have some picture of the valves i found

i did not detect any that were stuck with the diaphragm open - so a little confused now as to why no air was being generated

You don't need heat to pry your head off, a little prying and with a dead blow hammer you should get it to come off, no different than prying a cylinder head off a motor they just take some persuasion to get them off.

Winner! - just went out and did this - worked like a charm - thanks djd99

will take pics of the head and body a little later

to scrape off the gasket, just a scraper? - does it help to heat the remains of the gasket first? - or use some chemical to soften it a bit?

Once you have the head off take it completely apart and sandblast the bare head to clean it up. If you don't have a sandblaster soak the head in kerosene and use a stiff brush to get any gunk off it, then take a wire brush once the head is dry to clean the rest of it up.
As for the cooler there's not much you can do the clean the inside just soak it with a good degreaser and blow out what you can.

will do - more pics of that when it comes

thanks!

 

[djd99]

OK - so making some progress - the pictures below may not come out in the right order, but basically i was struggling to find a tool to remove the caps - the slot is really big (think cars boys...) - 1 1/8" long, 3/8" wide, and about 1" deep - and it is tapered - so after coming up short, i decided to make my own tool - got a piece of 36" 3/8 flat stock, 1" wide - i cut one piece to be a bit - at the other end of that piece i narrowed it and then drilled a slot in the remaining piece to use as a T handle

worked - have some picture of the valves i found

i did not detect any that were stuck with the diaphragm open - so a little confused now as to why no air was being generated

Winner! - just went out and did this - worked like a charm - thanks djd99

will take pics of the head and body a little later

to scrape off the gasket, just a scraper? - does it help to heat the remains of the gasket first? - or use some chemical to soften it a bit?




will do - more pics of that when it comes

thanks!

You just use a think paint scraper to get most of the gasket material off Don't worry about getting it all off then take your wire brush on a drill to clean both the jug and head. No heat or chemicals are necessary.

 

[rodm1]

Most pump case insides are painted with a red oxide color paint or other color. I put my Gardner Denver case into the solvant tank with no issues. Try a little heat on the head and see if its loosens up.

The proper paint is Glyptal made by General Electric.

Glyptal 1201
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0034D1ZCM/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://www.glyptal.com/1201tech001.pdf

 

[edl]

You just use a think paint scraper to get most of the gasket material off Don't worry about getting it all off then take your wire brush on a drill to clean both the jug and head. No heat or chemicals are necessary.

Got it - thanks DJD - by the way, what is the "jug"?

 

[edl]

The proper paint is Glyptal made by General Electric.

Glyptal 1201
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0034D1ZCM/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://www.glyptal.com/1201tech001.pdf

Thanks Rodm1 - how does one paint the inside of a compressor pump

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Got it - thanks DJD - by the way, what is the "jug"?

The "jug" is the cylinder that the piston rides in. In most motorcycle engines and some car engines (Corvair, VW bug, etc) the "jugs" are removable and can be replaced if they are too far gone to fix. A normal "in block" cylinder would need to be sleeved to save a block.

 

[930dreamer]

Thanks Rodm1 - how does one paint the inside of a compressor pump

I'd clean the inside and outside by sandblasting and use to inside primer, then prime and paint the outside. Or any combo of the two.

 

[edl]

The "jug" is the cylinder that the piston rides in. In most motorcycle engines and some car engines (Corvair, VW bug, etc) the "jugs" are removable and can be replaced if they are too far gone to fix. A normal "in block" cylinder would need to be sleeved to save a block.

got it - thanks

 

[edl]

I'd clean the inside and outside by sandblasting and use to inside primer, then prime and paint the outside. Or any combo of the two.

930D - thanks

so if i have a blast cabinet (run by something else, since this is the pump for the compressor that would run it), stick the nozzle of the gun into each hole and just shoot media through? - and then i guess just blow air through to get all the media out? - and soak it to get all, all, all the media out?

and how would you prime the inside? - just spray into the holes and cover as far as that reaches? - or swirl paint through? - seems like that could create a block somewhere?

thanks

 

[djd99]

930D - thanks

so if i have a blast cabinet (run by something else, since this is the pump for the compressor that would run it), stick the nozzle of the gun into each hole and just shoot media through? - and then i guess just blow air through to get all the media out? - and soak it to get all, all, all the media out?

and how would you prime the inside? - just spray into the holes and cover as far as that reaches? - or swirl paint through? - seems like that could create a block somewhere?

thanks

Ok I sandblasted mine in my fathers large sandblasting cabinet I separated the lower block from the jug to make things easier. Just make sure you blast everything well inside and out on the lower block.

Now as for the jug just sandblast the outside as it's not necessary to sandblast the cylinders. You will be honing your cylinders later.

I wouldn't worry about trying to paint the inside, that step is overkill I didn't with mine and for the record mine was never painted inside from the factory.

Now after you sandblasted to get all the sand out all I did was used high volume compressed air thoroughly. Carb or brake cleaner also helps........ Stay away from water as that will make the rust accelerate quick.

Also before I forget, A tip to get your small piston in, You have to install the small piston in through the bottom of the jug due to the cylinder being smaller than the rod cap. Take a dremel and chamfer the bottom part of the cylinder this will allow your rings to slide in the cylinder pretty easy......

Another tip I made most of my gaskets myself witch is pretty easy. Get some gasket material from your local autoparts store. Then spray wd40 on the surface you want to make the gasket for, then put the material over the wd40 and press firmly all over and now you have the pattern to cut out.

The only gaskets I didn't make were the head gasket and the shims to space the crankshaft.

 

[rodm1]

It's a good idea to paint any cast iron sump with Glyptal 1201. Cast iron is porous and oil can find its way out. Glyptal 1201 all sow provides a slick surface for oil to return quickly to the oil sump.

 

[djd99]

It's a good idea to paint any cast iron sump with Glyptal 1201. Cast iron is porous and oil can find its way out. Glyptal 1201 all sow provides a slick surface for oil to return quickly to the oil sump.

So is engine blocks and there cast iron and not painted on the inside, My kohler tractor engines are cast iron and not painted inside. My saylor beall pump was never painted inside from the factory, I think it's a step that's overkill that's why they stopped doing it. I didn't paint mine inside and don't intend to.

 

[rodm1]

So is engine blocks and there cast iron and not painted on the inside, My kohler tractor engines are cast iron and not painted inside. My saylor beall pump was never painted inside from the factory, I think it's a step that's overkill that's why they stopped doing it. I didn't paint mine inside and don't intend to.

It's just a precaution it whose used in vintage equipment because of the porosity of cast iron of the day. New high quality castings it might not be needed. Its a easy and quick way to cut costs for manufacturers. I still think its a good idea in any casting if you are doing the work yourself.

 

[66dave]

Hey gang-

I am new to the GJ, but this posting got my attention. You know you have a GREAT pump, that bad boy can put out 23cfm! I have the same one on an 80 gallon tank, I tossed the old motor and got a new Baldor. She is a looker! If you ever need parts for that pump these guys are great:

http://www.mastertoolrepair.com/saylor-beall-style-sc23-pump-0211-p-48.html

and if you want a new american made motor try this link out, I have bought 4 different Baldor motors from these guys, honest, reliabel and fast shipping:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-5-HP-BALDOR...189?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0c683c3d


Have fun!

 

[kams1973]

I'm not sure if you know this, but you need to keep the valves in order. They are not all the same. I have a 705 of the same vintage I am working on as well. Also, when ordering parts from a supplier be sure to tell them the age of the unit. Parts are made for clones that do not fit the SB. (con rod inserts, front oil seal) Torq specs are available for the pump as well. As for the valve plug tool (new style & old style)...they are available, but pricey...around $80 and up to $170. The plugs on your pump are old style.

http://www.mastertoolrepair.com/valve-tools-p-5481.html

http://www.aircomparts-air-compressors.com/valve-tools-saylor-beall/

 

[edl]

Hey gang-

I am new to the GJ, but this posting got my attention. You know you have a GREAT pump, that bad boy can put out 23cfm! I have the same one on an 80 gallon tank, I tossed the old motor and got a new Baldor. She is a looker! If you ever need parts for that pump these guys are great:

http://www.mastertoolrepair.com/saylor-beall-style-sc23-pump-0211-p-48.html

and if you want a new american made motor try this link out, I have bought 4 different Baldor motors from these guys, honest, reliabel and fast shipping:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-5-HP-BALDOR...189?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0c683c3d

Have fun!

Dave - first off, welcome! - and thanks

 

[edl]

I'm not sure if you know this, but you need to keep the valves in order. They are not all the same. I have a 705 of the same vintage I am working on as well. Also, when ordering parts from a supplier be sure to tell them the age of the unit. Parts are made for clones that do not fit the SB. (con rod inserts, front oil seal) Torq specs are available for the pump as well. As for the valve plug tool (new style & old style)...they are available, but pricey...around $80 and up to $170. The plugs on your pump are old style.

http://www.mastertoolrepair.com/valve-tools-p-5481.html

http://www.aircomparts-air-compressors.com/valve-tools-saylor-beall/

Kams1973 - thanks - glad to know someone else out there is going through the same thing - sounds like you have a good handle on things - if i can help wiht anything let me know (but as you can tell, i am a rank amateur)

 

[edl]

wow! - 170 bucks for the tool for my valve cap - holy cr@p!!!

 

[djd99]

wow! - 170 bucks for the tool for my valve cap - holy cr@p!!!

Ya that's just plain crazy I could make one in ten minutes. I just haven't found the time yet mine is sitting 98% Done. Hell I still need to remove my old curtis off the tank this rebuilt one is going on.

 

[edl]

yep...took me about that to make the one in the pictures above - $15 for the 36" of 3/8 x 1 flatstock...good to go

 

[edl]

I'm not sure if you know this, but you need to keep the valves in order. QUOTE]

thanks - i did read that in the rebuild manual

took one out, cleaned it up, and put it back in - then went to the next one

 

[djd99]

Hey gang-

I am new to the GJ, but this posting got my attention. You know you have a GREAT pump, that bad boy can put out 23cfm! I have the same one on an 80 gallon tank, I tossed the old motor and got a new Baldor. She is a looker! If you ever need parts for that pump these guys are great:

http://www.mastertoolrepair.com/saylor-beall-style-sc23-pump-0211-p-48.html

and if you want a new american made motor try this link out, I have bought 4 different Baldor motors from these guys, honest, reliabel and fast shipping:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-5-HP-BALDOR...189?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0c683c3d


Have fun!

Hey Dave I do have a question, on the motor you listed from ebay it appears that motor is capacitor start. My father tells me if the motor has these capacitors they don't require a magnetic starter with I disagreed with him. I thought It depends on how many amps the motors draws on startup the more amps requires a magnetic starter.
Do you have a magnetic starter for the ebay Motor?

I have a 2hp farm duty motor that doesn't need one but I assume a 5hp does?

 

[kams1973]

A magnetic starter is a relay. The motor will start without it.

 

[edl]

It's a good idea to paint any cast iron sump with Glyptal 1201. Cast iron is porous and oil can find its way out. Glyptal 1201 all sow provides a slick surface for oil to return quickly to the oil sump.

rodm1 - even if i wanted to, still can't figure out how you paint inside passages in a pump? - how do you reach in there? - other than pouring it in liquid and sloshing it around...but that does not seem right - what am i missing?

 

[edl]

We are a saylor beall distributer where I work i had never heard of them before comming to work here. I'm very impressed by what I have seen in the last 6 years I get people in here wanting parts for a unit thats 50+ years old and still running strong.
I have 1 customer that uses the 9000 series in a fertilizer plant it runs 24/7 only gets shut down for service once a month Oil change and filters sometimes belts.

Also if anyone here needs to buy parts or a whole unit hit me up I'll make a deal my discount on complete units is very good and it includes freight

All - please take note of this - I want to tell you all that JC did me an absolute solid - he worked through some parts options for me and i ended up buying a gasket kit - he gave it to me 10% cheaper than my local dist and saved me the sales tax - and even the local guy had to have it shipped from the factory - so 19% ahead with JC - excellent service - great guy

THANK YOU JC QUICK!

 

[edl]

separate question - and need to ask since i have never rebuilt a car motor or a pump

when i put the gaskets on, do i use some sort of sealer? - if yes, what?

would you seal to the head first and them put the head on the body? - or vice versa

also, when rebolting to mfg spec'd torque, should i put some kind of thread locker (loctite for example) on?

finally, for those big honking valve caps - can i put antisieze on the threads?

thanks!

 

[djd99]

separate question - and need to ask since i have never rebuilt a car motor or a pump

when i put the gaskets on, do i use some sort of sealer? - if yes, what?

would you seal to the head first and them put the head on the body? - or vice versa

also, when rebolting to mfg spec'd torque, should i put some kind of thread locker (loctite for example) on?

finally, for those big honking valve caps - can i put antisieze on the threads?

thanks!

edl I built several engines big and small, You don't use any gasket sealer on the head gasket just use thread lock(blue loctite) on the head bolts. As for the rest of the block all parts are a machined surfaces so I did not use any gasket sealer on those also but you could for insurance, if you wanted to go that route use a spray on sealer instead. And yes it wouldn't hurt to use antisieze on the large valve caps.
Also when installing the crank you do not want to use any gasket sealer on the back crank shim.! That would mess up setting the end play clearance.

 

[djd99]

rodm1 - even if i wanted to, still can't figure out how you paint inside passages in a pump? - how do you reach in there? - other than pouring it in liquid and sloshing it around...but that does not seem right - what am i missing?

Don't waste your time with this step they only did things like this back in the day. The only possible way to coat the inside of the block would be with a paint brush as the coating is pretty thick. They stopped doing this from the factory and really not necessary. However I use a high temp paint for the outside.

 

[edl]

edl I built several engines big and small, You don't use any gasket sealer on the head gasket just use thread lock(blue loctite) on the head bolts. As for the rest of the block all parts are a machined surfaces so I did not use any gasket sealer on those also but you could for insurance, if you wanted to go that route use a spray on sealer instead. And yes it wouldn't hurt to use antisieze on the large valve caps.
Also when installing the crank you do not want to use any gasket sealer on the back crank shim.! That would mess up setting the end play clearance.

got it

thx

 

[Vinko]

We are a saylor beall distributer where I work i had never heard of them before comming to work here. I'm very impressed by what I have seen in the last 6 years I get people in here wanting parts for a unit thats 50+ years old and still running strong.
I have 1 customer that uses the 9000 series in a fertilizer plant it runs 24/7 only gets shut down for service once a month Oil change and filters sometimes belts.

Also if anyone here needs to buy parts or a whole unit hit me up I'll make a deal my discount on complete units is very good and it includes freight

What do you think of their air dryers? They sent me their catalog recently and these look pretty good. I haven't checked into pricing. I'm running a 20 year old SB VT-755-120. Never had a problem.

 

[JCQuick]

All - please take note of this - I want to tell you all that JC did me an absolute solid - he worked through some parts options for me and i ended up buying a gasket kit - he gave it to me 10% cheaper than my local dist and saved me the sales tax - and even the local guy had to have it shipped from the factory - so 19% ahead with JC - excellent service - great guy

THANK YOU JC QUICK!

I was more than happy to help. just doing my job

 

[edl]

well...

seems like the valves may not be the issue

seems that when i turned the flywheel to line the piston up to put the top of the block on...nothing happened

to recall, the flywheel spun but no air generated - the likely cause, according to some, was a stuck valve

as it turns out, the pistons were not moving and so no air

so now i have to dig deeper

i have never rebuilt an engine...small or big

when i manipulate the pistons by hand, they both appear attached to the crank

so if i had to guess, when the flywheel spins, it isn't spinning the crank - how do they connect? - what is going on?

 

[930dreamer]

Sounds like the connecting rod is spinning around the crankshaft ie bad bearings.

http://www.animatedengines.com/stirling.shtml

 

[kams1973]

Take the side cover off and look to see what's happening when you turn the flywheel.

 

[djd99]

Take the side cover off and look to see what's happening when you turn the flywheel.

Exactly first take the head off and then the side cover, now turn the flywheel and make sure both pistons are moving up and down. The only way the pistons would not move is if a rod is broke. You should replace the rod bearings anyway if you going for a complete rebuild.

 

[JCQuick]

is the flywheel turning the crank maybe the keyway is broken or missing worse case broken crank

 

[djd99]

is the flywheel turning the crank maybe the keyway is broken or missing worse case broken crank

If anything the key would be split as a broken crank would be highly unlikey. And as heavy as they are you would break a rod before a crankshaft. Those cranks are pretty tough. Even if you spin a rod bearing 9 out of 10 times you can polish the crank and reuse as new.

 

[edl]

thx guys

will take off side cover and report back

 

[edl]

OK - tentative good news

got the side cover off last night - spun the flywheel - no crank movement

no time after that, but obviously next step is to tighten bolt/collar of flywheel to crankshaft - hopefully that does it!!