Saylor-Beall Rebuild

[Speed-Racer]

I would take the crank, rods and bearings back to the machine shop or a new machine shop. They should make it right, they did not have all the parts the first time. Are the rod dia and bearings in spec? Still think it is odd that the one crank journal is different on the left side vs right.

 

[jonathan75]

I would take the crank, rods and bearings back to the machine shop or a new machine shop. They should make it right, they did not have all the parts the first time. Are the rod dia and bearings in spec? Still think it is odd that the one crank journal is different on the left side vs right.

There were the same before they "fixed it". I was not impressed with the free hand crank in the air hand polishing. I wish the crank was too heavy and that would of forced them to do it properly in a lathe.

But I may try the rod cap tap. I never did that and it may be the ticket.

 

[mark52621]

But I am tight on the bottom and okay on the sides. The sides I have .0015 and .001 on the bottom. The machine shop told me it is normal to be tighter on the bottom. So if I am not tight on the sides it sounds like the shim stock could work right? If your theory is correct it could actually help balance things out.

I also wonder if Saylor Beall was against using a shim on the bearing and didn't mean the rod cap. Because I won't be using a shim on the bearing but just between the two halves on the rod.

The way I read the blurb from Saylor Beall is no shims under the bearing. I've seen this done in desperation rebuilds. Where bearings are tightened with shims under the bearing. Off roaders call this a duct tape rebuild. My dad did this with tin foil as a temporary fix once.

This is my understanding of the situation, you just need clearance along the axis of the journal.

As far as it being out of round; we're talking about .0005 more clearance. You'll get more 'out of round ness' or error by anything done by hand. This is a 7.5-5 hp engine turning under 1000 rpm, not a blown alcohol fueled funny car.

I'll say again my uncle did this as his job his entire life. He is such a perfectionist he does his wood work on a Bridgeport mill. He very confident about using a shim.

But at the end of the day do what your comfortable with. However you decide to fix it, I think the most important is that it turns free after torqued down.

Start with the cheapest easiest solution you can be happy with. First I would tap the cap when you assemble it. That's free. I would try the shim, assemble it see how it turns. If you aren't happy or comfortable with it back to the shop. At the end of the day $100 more for that nice of a compressor isn't to bad.

*disclaimer I've never done this or heard of this being done before*

If you want to grind it your self I would use jewelers rouge. It comes in a red-brown and white paste. The white paste is the finest and will leave a mirror polish. Rub the paste into a cloth then use your old bearings in the rods to clamp the rouge to your journal. Once you have it tight spin the rod a few times, then check it. This should take off a small amount and keep it round.

 

[mark52621]

I forgot to add; 'It's only a compressor'. hehe

This might be my knew catch all phrase replacing: 'It's good enough for government work'.

 

[EOC_Jason]

I would try the tap-the-cap idea... carefully...

Seeing as how OCD you've gone over everything else in this compressor (no offense), I know you won't be happy shimming it or some other hack. Just make another trip to the machine shop, take all the parts & tools with you, and get it done and check it out yourself there so you are happy. Buy the guys there a case of beer and they will be happy too.

 

[arkansawer]

I forgot to add; 'It's only a compressor'. hehe

This might be my knew catch all phrase replacing: 'It's good enough for government work'.

Which reminds me of a joke.

2 guys (a contractor and a mathematician )were sitting in a bar pounding a few cold ones and 2 unbelievably hot mommas come in and sat down at the far end of the bar. the guys, wishing they had the nerve to go over and hit them up start hatching a plan. The contractor says how about every fresh brew they slide down halfway closer to them and by the time they get there they would have enough courage to get to know them. the math guy thinks about it and firmly shakes his head and says "we would never get there" . the contractor says "we'll get close enough"

jon, on my quincy pump I plan on running my pump around a hundred hours then change oil. at that time I will be pulling my bearing caps to take a look at the wear. My low pressure piston had a lot of drag at first. not sure if it was the new rings or tight crank bearings but it loosened up quickly.

btw, does your wife know you are going to be rebuilding the engine in her car?

 

[jonathan75]

As far as it being out of round; we're talking about .0005 more clearance. You'll get more 'out of round ness' or error by anything done by hand. This is a 7.5-5 hp engine turning under 1000 rpm, not a blown alcohol fueled funny car.

Funny you should say that. Because of the first machine shop polishing my crank while holding it by hand they turned it into an egg! I took it to another machine shop near a site I was working at today and they checked it out for me. They were going to polish it correctly and let me watch but after he checked it out he said I will need to pick it up the other day. He is not sure how well he can fix it but will try. The crank has sizes going up and down from in spec to way under spec. The machine shop screwed it up big time with their lazy hand fix. All of the journals are not round anymore!

Just make another trip to the machine shop, take all the parts & tools with you, and get it done and check it out yourself there so you are happy. Buy the guys there a case of beer and they will be happy too.

The only thing I want to give them is a knuckle sandwich for screwing up my crankshaft. I am not going to give them any more chances to mess it up. Because they broke it they probably will lie to me about any "fixes" so it is going third party now.

jon, on my quincy pump I plan on running my pump around a hundred hours then change oil. at that time I will be pulling my bearing caps to take a look at the wear. My low pressure piston had a lot of drag at first. not sure if it was the new rings or tight crank bearings but it loosened up quickly.

btw, does your wife know you are going to be rebuilding the engine in her car?

Keep me updated, I am curious what you find when you take it apart again. My wife knows I want to fix her engine, it is starting to burn too much oil. But her rebuild is going to be put on hold until I can find a local machine shop that knows what the hell they are doing.

 

[jonathan75]

Wish them luck. HRT Machine Shop has my crankshaft now. I hope they can fix my egg. They asked me if I can get oversized bearings for 30 over and I told them I don't think I can. I was lucky to even find 20 over from Air-Flo. They are going to do the best they can to fix it but they may not be able to make it round without taking off too much.

 

[arkansawer]

jon, you have a 707 pump, right? which models share the same crank?

 

[jonathan75]

Here is an official warning for anyone in NC that needs any machine shop work done. Avoid Edwards Truck Services & Body Shop! If you ask them to polish a crankshaft they are too lazy to put it in a lathe and will polish it by hand holding it in the air and turn all your journals into a egg shape! If you see them run!

AVOID!
Edwards Truck Services & Body Shop
915 U.S. 117 Goldsboro, NC 27530
919-735-9784 800-736-0275
http://www.edwardstruckandbodyshop.com
http://www.edwardstruckservice.com/
https://plus.google.com/104501688516238322056/about?gl=us&hl=en
AVOID!

 

[jonathan75]

jon, you have a 707 pump, right? which models share the same crank?

I am not sure, I will need to check into that. Are you thinking about maybe finding a used crankshaft? I am going to call the crappy machine shop that screwed it up and see if they will pay for a new one.

 

[mark52621]

At least it sounds like you found a good machine shop finally. That can be worth a lot down the road.

I'm just glad you stopped to fix the problem instead of plowing ahead assuming everything was right.

 

[jonathan75]

At least it sounds like you found a good machine shop finally. That can be worth a lot down the road.

I'm just glad you stopped to fix the problem instead of plowing ahead assuming everything was right.

Proof will be in the pudding. Talk is cheap. Just ***** that I had a nice and round crankshaft that Edwards turned for me the first time and then they screwed it up trying to take it down .0005. They even took off so much in some spots that I need larger bearings! Why can't you pay for something and they do it right? Just do it right or don't do it at all.

 

[purplezr2]

I am not sure, I will need to check into that. Are you thinking about maybe finding a used crankshaft? I am going to call the crappy machine shop that screwed it up and see if they will pay for a new one.

Best they will do is give you back what you paid originally.

 

[arkansawer]

I am not sure, I will need to check into that. Are you thinking about maybe finding a used crankshaft? I am going to call the crappy machine shop that screwed it up and see if they will pay for a new one.

okc cl had a 703 w/big tank, no motor for 250 today.

 

[jonathan75]

okc cl had a 703 w/big tank, no motor for 250 today.

Probably only the 9000 would be close. It is the only other 4 cylinder.

 

[jonathan75]

There is good news and bad news. The new machine shop I took my crankshaft to have them check it out called me back today. They said the rods and bearings are perfect and have no issues. But the crankshaft is ruined. There is no amount of polishing that can make it round again. It has to be welded up and then taken back down. So I called Edwards and spoke to a guy named Mike, I think he may be the owners Son. He said he will fix it and do the work himself. I told him that I only wanted it to be done if he did it himself and not the same guy that ruined it the first time. So I have to pick up the crankshaft and bring it to Edwards when I get a chance. It won't be for another week or so because I am too busy with work and have no chance to do it. They are a hour away from my house.

In other news I am getting my own Micrometer so I can verify the measurements myself before and after I give it back to the machine shop. I don't trust anyone anymore. I need to see everything with my own eyes. This is why I like to do work myself. There is no pride anymore and the only way to get quality work done these days is to do it yourself. But the cost involved to get a lathe and everything required would be too much.

Here is a link to the Micrometer I purchased from Amazon. The price is great at $24 with good reviews. It has 0.0001" Graduation, +/-0.00016" Accuracy. Good enough for just a Air Compressor right.

http://amzn.com/B005001WI4

 

[Burgerkong]

That's it, I'm leaving my crankshafts alone LOL.

 

[Mr onetwo]

Well, at least you got Edwards to admit that they screwed up and they'll do the right thing and fix it.I think I am not alone when I say we will all keep our fingers crossed! After you're experience I am leery about breaking down the bottom end of mine. Good luck!

 

[jonathan75]

That's it, I'm leaving my crankshafts alone LOL.

If you measure yours and it looks good, hand polish it a little and run it. Since mine had a lot of damage I had no choice but to take it down and use oversized bearings.

Well, at least you got Edwards to admit that they screwed up and they'll do the right thing and fix it.I think I am not alone when I say we will all keep our fingers crossed! After you're experience I am leery about breaking down the bottom end of mine. Good luck!

The funny thing is that they didn't admit to anything really. The second time I called Edwards I asked him if he spoke to James (Crankshaft Guy) and he said he did. But he started stumbling over his own words when that came up. I can tell he knew he screwed up but did everything possible to stop short of actually saying it out loud. I just hope they fix it and fix it right.

But in the end the real proof is in the crankshaft. The crankshaft don't lie. Just the guy at the end of the micrometer can lie. Thus why I ordered my own micrometer.

 

[930dreamer]

I'm not sure I'd want " Edwards Truck Services & Body Shop" doing machine work. Why take the crank to another machine shop if you don't want them fixing it correctly?

 

[jonathan75]

I'm not sure I'd want " Edwards Truck Services & Body Shop" doing machine work. Why take the crank to another machine shop if you don't want them fixing it correctly?

If it was only a polish to take it down what I needed I was willing to pay extra to have it done someplace else. But since they screwed it up so much I need a new crankshaft or have it built up with welds and ground back down. At this point I have nothing to loose to give them a chance to repair it. The refund for the crank work won't get me close to the money I need for a new crankshaft or to have it rebuilt. So I will let someone else at Edwards give it a shot. They refused to pay for HRT to fix it. They want to see it with their own eyes and have a chance to make it right.

It also puts me in a better position to talk to Edwards when I had another machine shop check it out. It gives me some backup to show there really is a problem and it is not just my amateur opinion. I had no idea how bad it was because my caliper was not the correct tool to do good measurements. I thought it was just tight and had no idea that it was not even round anymore. I guess the only reason journal two could spin free was because it was just a smaller egg.

 

[Garage Dog]

This is quite the rebuild or should I say OCD restoration? I think you are to close to the project to be objective at this point - maybe some of us are as well - but we are pulling for you and the compressor!

Strange how seeing an old piece of equipment being restored makes you think of the good old days. When floor jacks had style and as a rule, compressors chugged along effortlessly, thup, thup, thup...

Fast forward to today and mentioning Edwards Truck Services & Body Shop in your thread puts your story on the fourth page of a Google search for their company...

They have an A+ rating with the BBB and no bad reviews on Yelp - the internet can be a powerful tool.

As you point out you have nothing to lose by giving them the opportunity to fix it - hopefully the owner's son will take pride in his work and care about their reputation.

BTW, I think you should name this compressor - that's right a name, that way when people say "after all it is just a compressor" - you can put them in their place and say no; this is the infamous "Legacy Saylor-Beall Compressor" of Garage Journal fame...or maybe just a simple name like "Jonathan's Compressor" - look what the name "Charlotte's Web" did for a little spider web in a barn. Who knows, with the right name there might be a book deal in your future.

Far fetched? Think about it; Charlotte saves a pig from butcher vs. Jonathan saves compressor from fiery, molten death at the hands of a scrapper...

You should have contest right here on GJ to name your compressor - after-all it would be fitting for the main character of such a saga to have a name...right?

 

[jonathan75]

This is quite the rebuild or should I say OCD restoration? I think you are to close to the project to be objective at this point - maybe some of us are as well - but we are pulling for you and the compressor!

Strange how seeing an old piece of equipment being restored makes you think of the good old days. When floor jacks had style and as a rule, compressors chugged along effortlessly, thup, thup, thup...

Fast forward to today and mentioning Edwards Truck Services & Body Shop in your thread puts your story on the fourth page of a Google search for their company...

They have an A+ rating with the BBB and no bad reviews on Yelp - the internet can be a powerful tool.

As you point out you have nothing to lose by giving them the opportunity to fix it - hopefully the owner's son will take pride in his work and care about their reputation.

BTW, I think you should name this compressor - that's right a name, that way when people say "after all it is just a compressor" - you can put them in their place and say no; this is the infamous "Legacy Saylor-Beall Compressor" of Garage Journal fame...or maybe just a simple name like "Jonathan's Compressor" - look what the name "Charlotte's Web" did for a little spider web in a barn. Who knows, with the right name there might be a book deal in your future.

Far fetched? Think about it; Charlotte saves a pig from butcher vs. Jonathan saves compressor from fiery, molten death at the hands of a scrapper...

You should have contest right here on GJ to name your compressor - after-all it would be fitting for the main character of such a saga to have a name...right?

Thank you for your encouragement. I have no idea how involved some may be into this rebuild based on the posts alone. Because there are over 22,000 views so far but far less posts. If everyone chimed in on every issue I am sure it would be far too overwhelming so it is good the way it is. But there are times I wouldn't mind more input when I am having problems such as the crankshaft.

The internet is far reaching and a permanent record. It would be in Edwards Machine Shop in Goldsboro, NC best interest to fix the crankshaft correctly. I switched the name up there to help the search engine hits. You never know how someone may search for the name.

A name for the compressor is a good idea. I will give it some thought.

 

[jonathan75]

I finished the prep work for the left jug today. I already had it sanded down so I just needed to clean it up and tape the gasket surfaces. I figured since I was prepping it on my final stage table I should take some pictures of panted vs. not painted.

 

[jonathan75]

I just did one coat of primer again. I put it on heavy and fast to keep it smooth in the hot temperatures. It seems to do the trick. After it dries I put on the gloves and rub out any stray bits or hairs that might of showed up.

 

[jonathan75]

The paint did good today. Just I got down to the end of the can which causes some issues. When I get to the end I usually have some darker green bits show up and inconsistent spraying. Sometimes it will be only propellent coming out and not paint.

 

[jonathan75]

Because of the end of the can issues I had to go for a partial fourth coat to fix some inconsistencies. Now it is drying under a 60 watt bulb for that baked enamel finish. After it dries it will go on my final stage table where the right jug is waiting for it.

 

[Zrexxer]

 

[EOC_Jason]

Maybe he had to go on a business trip? Or maybe he took the crank to the shop for them to fix it?

 

[Mr onetwo]

It won't be for another week or so because I am too busy with work and have no chance to do it. They are a hour away from my house.http://amzn.com/B005001WI4

I think Jonathan has been busy...he could probably use a little time away from this project anyway.

 

[arkansawer]

I just hope his neighbor "larry, the cable guy", didn't drop by by with a few too many brews under his belt to help out with the build and accidently locked them both in the garage....

 

[Zrexxer]

I just hope his neighbor "larry, the cable guy", didn't drop by by with a few too many brews under his belt to help out with the build and accidently locked them both in the garage....

Or else the machine shop decided to just chop him into little pieces and dump him in the waste oil tank... There! Problem solved!

 

[jonathan75]

I am back in town now. I was on a business trip out of state. But I did manage to pick up the crankshaft from HRT Performance machine shop that checked it out for me. They were nice and only charged me $10. They also took the time to educate me and show me how to use my new micrometer. So I got a lot of hands on education at a machine shop for just $10! I had some work related machining for them to do while I was there so I had them modify a work tool I use on a German machine also. Later today I will measure the crankshaft and update what I find. And this week I will take the crankshaft to the original machine shop to be fixed.

 

[jonathan75]

I wanted to use my new micrometer to get measurements with my own eyes before I give it back to the machine shop to fix. Here are the numbers in the pictures below.

 

[TwoInch]

are you taking measurements at different degrees around the journals? 90* apart?

edit- disregard, pics werent showing for me. i see them now.

 

[jonathan75]

It is out of my hands now and the machine shop has it back. They were nice about it and said they may have it finished by the end of the week. There is a huge crankshaft in the machine now being worked on preventing any further use. Mike told me that they will be using submerged arc welding and then turn it. He will remove the bearings so the heat won't affect it. I just hope that the bearings on the ends of the crankshaft go back like they were so I don't get any wobble or issues.

 

[Todd.Brock]

I can imagine you wanted to let the guy know what you thought about his employee's actions!! Hopefully they will get you all squares away and then tell him!

 

[jonathan75]

I can imagine you wanted to let the guy know what you thought about his employee's actions!! Hopefully they will get you all squares away and then tell him!

He said if he saw him hand polishing a crankshaft freehand again he will break his arms. hahaha

 

[DekeT]

I always wondered what people that restore antiques do. How do they get decals made for companies long out of business? There must be a way of getting them made from a picture with a graphic designer making it in the computer.

I make a good digital photo and use Adobe Illustrator to recreate emblems on my computer.