School Me About Unimat Lathes......

[Crow Horse]

I'm considering getting a small metal lathe. Right now it's not in the budget but I want to learn about them and when it does become budget friendly, I want to know exactly what model I should be targeting.

I'm shying away from the HF mini lathes because I'm told that they are a project of themselves right out of the box. I've seen the Unimat lathes and they appear to be a quality build and parts are available for them.

Does anyone have any experience with the Unimats?

I'm thinking that a mini lathe would be a great addition to my arsenal....

 

[GrantCee]

"Small" and "mini", to me, are two different classes. Can you define what you're looking for in terms of swing and length?

 

[jonesg]

I would look for a used old south bend 9" with threading gearbox, I had one and it was very good, had to sell it.
I now have a smaller sherline with vertical mill attachment, nice for hobby stuff.

I wouldn't have a problem getting the HF mini, any lathe is better than no lathe.

 

[Dave455]

The Unimat is about the tiniest lathe you can actually do real work with. Although you can do a surprising amount with them, unless you are really pushed for space, you are generally better off with something a bit bigger. I’ve known a couple of folks get a Unimat as a first lathe, but soon realise that it just won’t do what they want.

If you do go down the Unimat route, older is generally better. The old Unimat SL’s (and even earlier) were lovely little machines, and of surprisingly high quality for something designed for amateur use. Even the later Unimat 3’s were decent, within the limits of their size. All of course accepted a wide range of accessories, and it was these made the Unimat so attractive to the hobbyist.

These machines of course, were all Austrian built. The Unimat 4’s are Taiwanese. The only ones I’ve seen, which was some years back, were shite of the highest order. They were so bad that they pretty much killed the market for the Unimat in the U.K.

If you want to stick with a small lathe then there are many other options. I’m not too familiar with machines available in the U.S. but on the other side of the pond I would be looking at a Cowells, Pultra, or even a Schaublin, all of which will continue to have their uses long after you have outgrown a Unimat!

 

[Crow Horse]

I'm really strapped for space so a small lathe similar in size (7 x 10-12 ?) would do for any small projects. Anything requiring a larger lathe I'd hand off to a former co-worker to bring in and put on the large lathes at my former employer.

Yes, any lathe is better than none but I didn't want my first project to be the actual lathe itself.

Back to my lack of space, working in my shed is like working on a WWII sub. Anything I do requires moving at least half a dozen items. I'm blessed with a boatload of tools but lack the appropriate space to store and work efficiently. These are the conditions which prevail and I just have to adjust accordingly.

 

[GrantCee]

The Unimat is about the tiniest lathe you can actually do real work with.

That's odd...I've done lots of "real" work on even tinier Levins and Boleys, work for which I was well paid.

 

[macgee]

Crow Horse,

You may want to check out Sherline lathe's (and mills). Not sure what used ones are going for price wise but they're very popular and respected for small work. Its essentially an updated & improved version of a Unimat. Unimat's were made in Austria by EMCO.

The problem with Unimat's is getting the most out of them and being usable, this requires a good amount of tooling and that is hard to find & pricey. Because Unimat's are so small, you pretty much need tooling made for Unimat or pay big prices for compatible tooling that was made for watchmaker lathes.

So the trick to Unimats is finding one for sale with a bunch of tooling and I believe the prefer model is the MK4.

I agree with others, to go a little bigger if possible.

 

[GrantCee]

I'm really strapped for space so a small lathe similar in size (7 x 10-12 ?) would do for any small projects.

From this I assume you're looking at the Emco Compact 5 and Compact 8 lathes? (They were sold for a time under the Unimat label, but they're significantly larger than the rest of the Unimat line — which is why I asked the question.)

Generally, the Emco machines are of decent quality and get better the larger you go. Their "Maximat" line is excellent in their size ranges.

The Compact 8 is the smallest "real" (i.e., with a rapid-traverse carriage) lathe Emco made. Compared to the cheap project lathes from China, they're several steps above. I don't think you'd be dissatisfied with the quality of the machine, although you may have trouble finding one — I believe they've been discontinued for some time.

 

[Dave455]

That's odd...I've done lots of "real" work on even tinier Levins and Boleys, work for which I was well paid.

Yes, fair point, but I’m assuming the O.P. isn’t an instrument maker or watchmaker!

When you are dealing with “hobby” lathes, which is what the Unimat essentially is, I haven’t really come across anything smaller, that’s still strong enough to turn the sort of things hobbyists want to turn.

I suppose that explains the popularity of the Unimat!

 

[Dave455]

Crow Horse,

Unimat's were made in Austria by EMCO.

So the trick to Unimats is finding one for sale with a bunch of tooling and I believe the prefer model is the MK4.

I agree with others, to go a little bigger if possible.

They were originally made in Austria, up to the Unimat 3, but anything later is Taiwanese.

Yes, the Mk4 (that’s the original Unimat, Mk4, not to be confused with the Unimat 4) probably was about the best. Probably one of the last of the cast iron machines.

 

[jonesg]

check out the sherline, does precision work, not limited to soft material.

 

[macgee]

From this I assume you're looking at the Emco Compact 5 and Compact 8 lathes?
The Compact 8 is the smallest "real" (i.e., with a rapid-traverse carriage) lathe Emco made.

I actually own a Compact 8 and use it almost everyday, works great for the size and a pretty capable lathe if your patient and don't try to push it like a 12" engine lathe.

The OP will need about 36" Wide of bench top space with about 24" of depth but these are in no way near the budget that the OP maybe working with. Plus the tooling & parts are difficult and very expensive to acquire. I wished it had a quick change gear box.

A unimat can be stashed away when not in use, something you cant do with the Compact 8.

They were originally made in Austria, up to the Unimat 3, but anything later is Taiwanese.

Yes, the Mk4 (that’s the original Unimat, Mk4, not to be confused with the Unimat 4) probably was about the best. Probably one of the last of the cast iron machines.

I didn't know they switched to Taiwan, good to know.

check out the sherline, does precision work, not limited to soft material.

I've never used one but keep hearing this over the years about how happy people are with them. Of course it has its limitations but seems to be able to produce nice pieces and certainly fits the bill for people who are really tight for space like the OP.

I read somewhere that a watchmaker preferred it over his Levin. The prices for them don't seem to bad when you considered what it can do for the size.

 

[Aaron_W]

The biggest problem with Unimats these days is they have become sort of collectable. You can often buy a new Sherline or Taig for the price I see many Unimats selling for. Then there is the issue of support, there is very little for any of the small Emco lathes these days, and the accessories can go for pretty good money.

Still if you can find a deal, they have a good reputation.

For the money it is hard to beat a Sherline for a very small (3-1/2" swing) lathe. Pretty much the same market Unimat held, but I think a better lathe with far better support. There are instrument lathes that are better but now you are talking about $10,000+

Taig is a tad larger with a 4.5" swing, and a bit cheaper.

Taig and Sherline are both made in the USA (actually manufactured here, not just assembled). Either is roughly the same size as a Unimat, and under 50lbs so not bad if you need to put them up when not in use so you can clear the work bench or table for other projects.

If these are too small you might look a step above the 7" mini-lathes at the 8x16". These are about 2x the price (so $1500-ish) and weight (150lbs) but only a little bit larger. They seem to be of better quality than the 7" because they are built to be cheap, but not absolutely as cheap as possible. The 9x20s are also not bad, although now about 250lbs and a little longer (3-1/2 feet).

Atlas / Craftsman 6x18" lathes are another popular choice for a small lathe, but now you are getting back into an old (min 40 years old) semi-collectable lathe, so prices can get out of hand.

 

[rlitman]

...If you do go down the Unimat route, older is generally better. The old Unimat SL’s (and even earlier) were lovely little machines, and of surprisingly high quality for something designed for amateur use. Even the later Unimat 3’s were decent, within the limits of their size. All of course accepted a wide range of accessories, and it was these made the Unimat so attractive to the hobbyist.

These machines of course, were all Austrian built. The Unimat 4’s are Taiwanese. The only ones I’ve seen, which was some years back, were shite of the highest order. They were so bad that they pretty much killed the market for the Unimat in the U.K...

I'm going to have to disagree here. The old Unimat SL, DB and friends with round tubular bed ways were total ****. I've been through half a dozen of them, and while the drill press quill style headstock was convenient, they're awful at everywhere else. I'd take just about any Asian mini-lathe over one, though I also do fully understand that the Asian mini-lathe will require a LOT of work out of the box to be useful.

The Unimat 3 was by far the pinnacle of their stuff, and is a first class machine. They came with Rohm 3-jaw chucks that were actually able to re-chuck a workpiece and retain center to within 0.0001 on my indicator (something normally only possible with a 4-jaw or collets). The biggest issue I've ever had with them is that the lead screw in the tailstock is super soft, and I've had to replace more than one when they jammed due to being distorted. Also, their belts **** (that's a running issue with most mini-lathes, though Taig does a good job here).

As for the Unimat 4, the few examples I've worked with were Austrian, and the ONLY difference between them and the 3 was the V boss on the back of the ways to accept the godawful milling attachment.

Would I recommend a Unimat 3? I guess. It depends on what you expect to get out of it. It's a great high precision turning machine, but isn't made for threading, if you need that capability.

Oh, and the Taiwanese piece of hot garbage was the Unimat 1. Yeah, skip that one!

 

[Davefr]

I've owned a Unimat and now have a Sherline. IMHO, there's no comparison. The Sherline does everything better.

 

[Crow Horse]

I took a look at them and they look pretty impressive. I like the fact that there is support for them and that they are made in the USA.

 

[Dave455]

Guys, with regard to the Unimat, I think there’s a good deal of confusion here regarding all the model numbers/names.

It’s not helped by Emco themselves, who didn’t always use a logical numbering system. I don’t think the original Unimat was ever referred to by Emco as a “Unimat 1” although that’s what it was generally known as, once the later models came out. The original Unimat was available in various “Marks” some with considerable differences, and as I said before the “Mk4” is a totally different machine from the Unimat 4. Confusing.

The Unimat 1 was the later / lower cost machine with many plastic parts. I have no experience of these. The Unimat 4 definitely was Taiwanese. I can’t now remember when it came out, but I’m thinking late 80’s. I was very much on the model engineering scene at the time, the Unimat was a popular machine, and I can remember standing on the Emco stand at the Model Engineering Exhibition being somewhat unimpressed.

I have no idea if Emco have used different model names for different markets. It’s quite feasible. And if anybody thinks they have seen an Austrian Unimat 4, well I guess that’s quite feasible, but I never have. Emco were never hugely transparent about this.

There is quite a lot of info on www.lathes.co.uk regarding all the models. From a quick glance, the info there is correct, certainly in accordance with my memories.

O.P. The Unimat world is a bit of a minefield of different models. If you can, do your research before you buy, and don’t part with good money if something isn’t what you expect.

 

[Maui]

If you are looking for a small footprint bench top lathe that has accessories readily available, is versatile and well made it’s hard to beat an Atlas 618 for the price. You can do some excellent work on these machines provided you operate within limitations of the design.

 

[Davefr]

If you are looking for a small footprint bench top lathe that has accessories readily available, is versatile and well made it’s hard to beat an Atlas 618 for the price. You can do some excellent work on these machines provided you operate within limitations of the design.

That's true but I wouldn't call the Atlas 618 a portable lathe. You really need to set them up on a dedicated bench. (especially given the motor mount arrangement)

The Sherline/Unimat lathes are very portable and easily stored.

 

[Maui]

That's true but I wouldn't call the Atlas 618 a portable lathe. You really need to set them up on a dedicated bench. (especially given the motor mount arrangement)

The Sherline/Unimat lathes are very portable and easily stored.

True. I own two Unimat lathes, an Atlas 618, and many other larger South Bend, Logan, and Atlas lathes. The 618 should be set up on a dedicated bench. But that doesn’t mean the bench can’t be set up on casters so it can be rolled out of the way when not in use.

 

[GrantCee]

(Re: Sherline...)
I've never used one but keep hearing this over the years about how happy people are with them. Of course it has its limitations but seems to be able to produce nice pieces and certainly fits the bill for people who are really tight for space like the OP.

I read somewhere that a watchmaker preferred it over his Levin. The prices for them don't seem to bad when you considered what it can do for the size.

Well, I'm a former watch & clockmaker, and I've run a Sherline for at least 30 years next to my WW-pattern (Boley, Levin, etc) machines. There are things I still prefer the smaller lathes for, but the Sherline is surprisingly capable — and, frankly, a lot more robust (you don't have to worry about burning the bearings on a Sherline!)

With a carefully selected and installed WW collet adaptor it will do just about everything the Boley/Levin will do, but will also handle bigger jobs/tougher materials.

If I were limited to a single miniature lathe, it would be the Sherline. Hands down.

 

[jonesg]

Love watching the sherline do CNC work.

 

[vpd66]

Crow Horse,

You may want to check out Sherline lathe's (and mills). Not sure what used ones are going for price wise but they're very popular and respected for small work. Its essentially an updated & improved version of a Unimat. Unimat's were made in Austria by EMCO.

The problem with Unimat's is getting the most out of them and being usable, this requires a good amount of tooling and that is hard to find & pricey. Because Unimat's are so small, you pretty much need tooling made for Unimat or pay big prices for compatible tooling that was made for watchmaker lathes.

So the trick to Unimats is finding one for sale with a bunch of tooling and I believe the prefer model is the MK4.

I agree with others, to go a little bigger if possible.

Isn't that the trick to buying any lathe???? My experience with lathe purchases has been if you buy a lathe without tooling then that is one cash outlay.The second outlay is buying some tooling to actually do something with the lathe. So any size lathe requires tooling and lathes with more tooling are the better deals.

 

[lis2323]

I agree with others who say they are more a collectible machine.

I grab them if I see them cheap and clean strictly for resale. I have never used or kept one.

Here is a recent one.....




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[doug.j]

I've owned a Unimat and now have a Sherline. IMHO, there's no comparison. The Sherline does everything better.

This is my experience as well. The nice things about Sherline machines is the interchangeable parts (lathe and mill) and you can get any replacement part or accessory. I had a Unimat but is was a little too small so I sold it.

Sometimes people try to turn mystery metal on a small lathe, have issues, and blame the lathe. The alloy and quality is important for small lathes. Using good metal and having a way to rough it to size is important. Small machines are slow.

 

[Crow Horse]

Thanks for sharing all this information. You guys have convinced me to set my sights on a Sherline.

 

[Indexmill]

The Unimat really is a toy with the tubular bed.