School Me On 220V Hookup's

[Maineiacmoose]

Hey all

I am looking to close up my walls soon and want to run the wires now for things I may want down the road. I don't think I will get crazy but I do want a welder and I want the ability to power 220V equipment like larger table saws and what not. I just don't know where to start with plugs and wire selection. I picked up some 6-2 wire the other day at Lowes because it was $.75 a foot and seemed like I would be able to power some heavy duty stuff.

I want to put a box for a heat pump, welder, misc. heavy duty stuff, and a compressor. That will be about it for me.

But really I am lost here for sure.

Thanks for any help.

Maineiac

 

[Hot Rod Grampa]

You really need a layout plan of where what will go. If you have no idea, then wire a home run to each wall and area you might want to put a machine. You may have to use short extension cords or extend the equipment cord once you are up and running but it will get you started.

 

[The Cobbler]

yeah, I think you need some more thought on what you "might do" and get a better idea .
also a 240/120- 30 or 40 amp circuit gives you a lot of flexibility too.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Walls in what kind of structure?

 

[Maineiacmoose]

Detached garage with 200amp service.

 

[Maineiacmoose]

Guess after looking at this I didn't say clearly. I am finishing off half of my garage. The finished space is roughly 25X30. The middle wall is where I want the heavier of the outlets for a welder. The wall opposite the garage door I want a "universal" multiple use outlet if that makes any sense at all. I guess I am looking for what I need to put this stuff in material wise. I just don't know where to start getting smart on it.
Cheers
Maineiac

 

[sberry]

You got a bargain on the wire, should have scored all they had. Not everything 240 volt uses the same breaker. Most equipment will certainly be fine with that wire cept for some ovens.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Does the garage have it's own meter and panel?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Hey all

I am looking to close up my walls soon and want to run the wires now for things I may want down the road. I don't think I will get crazy but I do want a welder and I want the ability to power 220V equipment like larger table saws and what not. I just don't know where to start with plugs and wire selection. I picked up some 6-2 wire the other day at Lowes because it was $.75 a foot and seemed like I would be able to power some heavy duty stuff.

I want to put a box for a heat pump, welder, misc. heavy duty stuff, and a compressor. That will be about it for me.

But really I am lost here for sure.

Thanks for any help.

Maineiac

well since you asked to be schooled, its 240v not 220v.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

Does the following pic help?
For my garage I will be stubbing 3/4” conduit to all my outlets and leaving some just vacant. That way if I upgrade, change locations for a compressor, welder or what have you I will simply upgrade wire, outlet and breaker when needed. But my trusses are open for easy changes required. The conduit stubs will be inwall with drywall or 3/4” plywood surfaces.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Does the following pic help?
For my garage I will be stubbing 3/4” conduit to all my outlets and leaving some just vacant. That way if I upgrade, change locations for a compressor, welder or what have you I will simply upgrade wire, outlet and breaker when needed. But my trusses are open for easy changes required. The conduit stubs will be inwall with drywall or 3/4” plywood surfaces.

thats not a good chart because it doesnt distinguish between the different temperature ratings and associated ampacities of the different types of insulation.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

Wylie, I’m not an electrician can you explain the temperature ratings. It appears to kick in at 40 amp ccts with 8 Guage wire.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

Unless you have a definite layout plan right now, why not close up the walls and surface mount your 240v circuits later on? You won't regret making a wrong decision now, and it makes it easy to change down the road if you acquire new equipment or move your existing stuff.

 

[alfredeneuman]

If you have a question you should start a new thread, not change the topic being discussed.

 

[Maineiacmoose]

well since you asked to be schooled, its 240v not 220v.

This Thank you. Schooled lol

 

[Maineiacmoose]

thats not a good chart because it doesnt distinguish between the different temperature ratings and associated ampacities of the different types of insulation.

Wylie, I’m not an electrician can you explain the temperature ratings. It appears to kick in at 40 amp ccts with 8 Guage wire.

By the looks of this chart I should be ok with a 48' run of 6-2 wire for 55 amps? Does that check out with you fellas?

I have a general idea in my head where I want things. The wall that I am starting to insulate is opposite the side garage door. This is where I picture my work bench and associated tools if that matters. I attached a picture to give you fellas an idea of what I am talking about. The empty box in the middle is where I would like to put a lighter duty 240v for a grinder or a table saw or the like. The wall to the right that you cant see divides the garage, that is where I would like to run the 6-2 wire for a HD hook up lol. I hope this makes sense.

Maineiac

 

[Maineiacmoose]

Unless you have a definite layout plan right now, why not close up the walls and surface mount your 240v circuits later on? You won't regret making a wrong decision now, and it makes it easy to change down the road if you acquire new equipment or move your existing stuff.

Does the following pic help?
For my garage I will be stubbing 3/4” conduit to all my outlets and leaving some just vacant. That way if I upgrade, change locations for a compressor, welder or what have you I will simply upgrade wire, outlet and breaker when needed. But my trusses are open for easy changes required. The conduit stubs will be inwall with drywall or 3/4” plywood surfaces.

I am thinking this may be the best bet for now. Just to place some conduit in the walls for future use. I would like to wire the two boxes though.... you know since I already bought them.

I will have some easy access through the eaves of the roof so it wouldn't be a huge deal to drop them latter on the outside walls. This is certainly a possibility. I like it.

Maineiac

 

[Maineiacmoose]

Does the garage have it's own meter and panel?

Yes it does!

 

[Bert_]

Op has #6 Romex which uses the 60* ampacity, that gives us 55A.

Wylie, I’m not an electrician can you explain the temperature ratings. It appears to kick in at 40 amp ccts with 8 Guage wire.

That's an ok chart, but it is simplified from the real table in nec (T310.15B16)

All sizes of conductors can use the 75* ampacity provided you have the right type of wire and connections. Romex is always limited to the 60* column no matter the size. 15 and 20a outlets always use 60* column because of the connection.

When using thhn you can use the 75* ampacity anytime the the connection on both ends of the wire is marked 75* C or the circuit is over 100a, then it can be assumed to be 75* C.

The 75* and 90* columns can always be used for derating purposes as long as the wire is rated for it. The end result can not be higher than the connections are good for.

 

[tmanoldcarz]

When I wired my 30 x 50 metal building, I ran extra 3/4 conduit and put a colored mason string in each. pink for the 50A, yellow for the 40 and white for the 30. I tagged the end with a number and pulled what i needed at a later date. You can always change the amp rating for the color. I just knew what I was adding later. You can just put mason string in and pull whatever you need when you need it. Just put a solid cover plate for now and mark both ends. Hope it helps, worked great for me.

 

[sberry]

You already stole,, I mean bought that wire, put it in. It will run any 50a welder till it glows.

 

[Maineiacmoose]

When I wired my 30 x 50 metal building, I ran extra 3/4 conduit and put a colored mason string in each. pink for the 50A, yellow for the 40 and white for the 30. I tagged the end with a number and pulled what i needed at a later date. You can always change the amp rating for the color. I just knew what I was adding later. You can just put mason string in and pull whatever you need when you need it. Just put a solid cover plate for now and mark both ends. Hope it helps, worked great for me.

That sounds like a great idea to me. I went ahead and closed up the walls anyway because well its damn cold and I want the heater working. lol... the osb is screwed on to the walls so I should be good to go when I get ready to run it. My trusses are easy to access with the second story so no foul there either. Thanks for all of the help and basic schooling.

And welcome to the Garage Journal tmanoldcarz I think you will like it here.

 

[bradysdad]

If you have not wired outlets before or are not sure what gauge is needed for what amperage, PLEASE consult a professional. Go ahead and run conduit to your locations if you are looking to save money, but have a licensed electrician do the wiring to code. There are several combinations of wire gauge and breaker size which can get you in trouble quickly. And the quickest way to burn down your investment, is with inappropriate wiring. Insurance may even refuse to cover any loss if it is determined that electrical was the cause and you cannot prove that it was wired to code by a licensed individual.

Some things are just not worth “saving” money. Do it right and sleep well at night.

 

[sberry]

Where did you learn all this?

 

[Maineiacmoose]

If you have not wired outlets before or are not sure what gauge is needed for what amperage, PLEASE consult a professional. Go ahead and run conduit to your locations if you are looking to save money, but have a licensed electrician do the wiring to code. There are several combinations of wire gauge and breaker size which can get you in trouble quickly. And the quickest way to burn down your investment, is with inappropriate wiring. Insurance may even refuse to cover any loss if it is determined that electrical was the cause and you cannot prove that it was wired to code by a licensed individual.

Some things are just not worth “saving” money. Do it right and sleep well at night.

I have been doing the wiring of the outlets above code. I learned using this book.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/162710674X/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I mostly was not sure what the welders required for wire and ratings of said wires. The book really didn't touch on stuff like that being house centric.

I had an electrician put the service in so I knew I had a good install there. My runs of outlets are done with 12-2 wire and should be fine with most applications in the garage.

If I feel uncomfortable with the install and feel like I may do something unsafe I wont hesitate to call an expert.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The first thing to know about 240V wiring, it is the "full" circuit coming from the power company. Generally the 2 wires are just called L1 and L2 (Load 1 and Load 2). It is commonly "cut in half" by providing a neutral wire on the middle so that L1 to neutral is 120V and L2 to neutral is 120V. Most of the rest of the world has foregone the neutral. (My guess is at the time the US started running AC power to houses using 1/2 of the voltage was fine because loads were low (mostly light bulbs) and the cost of better insulation for the higher voltage was high,)

Many 240V "appliances" (large motors, welders, etc) have no need for a neutral. This is why these device have 3 prong plugs (L1, L2 and ground). Other "appliances" like stoves and dryers, DO use 120V internal to run things like clocks and light bulbs which is why they have 4 prong plugs (L!, L2, neutral, ground).

There are 4 "styles" of 240V plugs: 3 prong (NEMA 6), 3 prong locking (NEMA L6), 4 prong (NEMA 14), 4 prong locking (NEMA L14). Furthermore there are variation within each category so that "appliances" that draw larger amounts of current can not be plugged into circuits that do not have the capability.

 

[nadogail]

Electrical Safety Precautions are written in blood, smoke and ashes.

 

[Maineiacmoose]

Electrical Safety Precautions are written in blood, smoke and ashes.

Indeed.

I am going to run the 6-2 with a 50a plug and call it a day. Thanks fellas.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Generally the 2 wires are just called L1 and L2 (Load 1 and Load 2)

I've always called them Line 1 and Line 2

 

[dcg9381]

Where did you learn all this?

That's a good question. I could correctly claim that I went to college for it, but the reality is that I learned a bunch of math and most of the people I graduated with don't know what end of a soldering iron is up.

So I'd say:
Carefully, with a lot of reading, and by working with some (real electrician) friends. But mostly with a lot of reading and checking what I was doing (in some cases) by posting my work on the internet. Nothing is more critical than posting your work to a bunch of internet-electricians.

Most of the real "trade" electrician forums won't let you post and discourage advice giving to lay-people like us.


BTW, you need 6-3 if you're going to feed non-220V circuits, not 6-2. It's fine if you never use 110V or if you don't feed a sub-panel, etc.

And 6-3 (in a sheath) will "barely" work in 3/4" conduit, but it's going to be a bear to pull around corners and you'll need some wire lube...

If you run it as 6-2, it's 220V ONLY and you can't step it down. Many modern outlets (like those for dryers and RVs) require the neutral...




50A at 220V is a LOT of power...

 

[sberry]

Yes it is. I got no problem with learning from the net, but its easy to miss some basics. Its 120/240V

 

[alfredeneuman]

Most of the real "trade" electrician forums won't let you post and discourage advice giving to lay-people like us.

There are plenty of DIY boards.
DIY questions on a pro forum are a nuisance, and would become the majority of traffic if nothing was done. Electricians can spot a DIY by his first post (by terms like 220 and 110).