To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

School me on blades

tarbellb

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
5,808
Location
Oregon
I have a 14" dry cut chop saw (Evo Rage 2, 1450 rpm). I have gone through the two blades I originally bought, one the OEM blade the other was 14" Diablo 72 teeth, 1" arbor, "ferrous" cutting labeled blade.

Keep in mind that I have made a 1000+ cuts, im not complaining or concerned about blade life or improper use.

So what is the difference between say a 80 tooth, carbide tipped blade and a 80 tooth carbide tipped blade marked for "ferrous" cutting? Ultimately im asking if I can purchase any quality carbide tipped high tooth count blade and use it to cut in my saw?



 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

neophyte

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
9,960
Location
Pennsylvannia
I have a 14" dry cut chop saw (Evo Rage 2, 1450 rpm). I have gone through the two blades I originally bought, one the OEM blade the other was 14" Diablo 72 teeth, 1" arbor, "ferrous" cutting labeled blade.

Keep in mind that I have made a 1000+ cuts, im not complaining or concerned about blade life or improper use.

So what is the difference between say a 80 tooth, carbide tipped blade and a 80 tooth carbide tipped blade marked for "ferrous" cutting? Ultimately im asking if I can purchase any quality carbide tipped high tooth count blade and use it to cut in my saw?

The rake angle on the carbide teeth has to be designed for the material being cut. Woodworking crosscut blades have sharp teeth that angle forward slicing at the wood like a cat claw. Teeth for metal are usually angled backward so the teeth angle scrape a small amount of metal at a time. If you use the wrong blade type the material may melt, tear, or burn, and the blade might lose its teeth, or the saw, or its operator may get injured. Some blades may work on other materials, but usually with non optimal results.
 
OP
T

tarbellb

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
5,808
Location
Oregon
Neophyte, thanks for the quick reply and general explanation. This makes sense. So what would be the difference between a Ferrous and Non Ferrous blade design?

I do mostly steel work but also some aluminum and other metals. The OEM blade says any material and I had no issues. But if I were to source a Ferrous only blade, would I see a drastic change?
 

Stuey

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
11,034
Location
28m above sea level
Neophyte, thanks for the quick reply and general explanation. This makes sense. So what would be the difference between a Ferrous and Non Ferrous blade design?

I do mostly steel work but also some aluminum and other metals. The OEM blade says any material and I had no issues. But if I were to source a Ferrous only blade, would I see a drastic change?
Unless a ferrous metal-cutting blade explicitly says "not for use with aluminum" it *should* be fine. When in doubt, contact the manufacturer.

Generally, blades designated for aluminum and plastic materials will leave a cleaner cut than those designed for steels, at least potentially. Blade designs are often optimized for specific material types.

Some blades come with "best, better, good, not-suitable" classifications for different materials.

Different tooth geometries and orientations are noticeable between wood-cutting blades and alum-cutting blades, but alum-cutting vs. steel-cutting differences might not be as obvious.

If you've been pleased with the longevity of the Rage blade, maybe just stick with that? That's what I plan to do when I wear out the blade on my 7-1/4" model.
 
OP
T

tarbellb

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
5,808
Location
Oregon
Thanks Stuey, always good to hear your opinion on here.

So, if the blade im looking at says "Made for Aluminum", does that mean I could use it for both steel and aluminum?

The real reason im asking is because the going rate for these 14" steel cutting blades go for $75-225 a piece! If I can locate a cheaper blade, like the Freud Diablo for $40 (sold out now) I would be happy.
 

Stuey

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
11,034
Location
28m above sea level
Thanks Stuey, always good to hear your opinion on here.

So, if the blade im looking at says "Made for Aluminum", does that mean I could use it for both steel and aluminum?

The real reason im asking is because the going rate for these 14" steel cutting blades go for $75-225 a piece! If I can locate a cheaper blade, like the Freud Diablo for $40 (sold out now) I would be happy.

Glad to chime in. =)

Aluminum is softer than steel, so an aluminum-cutting blade would NOT be appropriate for cutting steel. The reverse can be true unless explicitly mentioned otherwise.

Think of it this way - you can use metal shears to cut a piece of paper, but you can't use office scissors to cut sheet metal.

$75-225 for a 14" steel-cutting circular saw blade isn't bad.

The Freud D1472F is generally priced at $100-120, $40 would have been a great deal. If you look at a closeup of the blade on Amazon (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/91NYEfYJXXL._SL1500_.jpg), it's good for use on mild steel construction profiles.

Another point about the Rage blade is that it's designed for cutting steel, aluminum, wood, or plastic.

The Oshlun blade should be good for your use as well, but it's hard to say whether it'll be better than a Rage blade or Diablo.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
T

tarbellb

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
5,808
Location
Oregon
I guess im just having a hard time figuring out the build of a blade to limit its uses. I thought number of teeth and the material (carbide) would have the biggest effect?
But the orientation of the teeth, angle, cut, etc... also play a big part in it.

I remember another poster in the "hot deals" section posting a 14" high tooth, steel cutting blade that Home Depot started carrying a while back for ~$40. Ill see if I cant find that.

Here is the original link to the blade (Milwaukee Endurance) for $36! Now its $139!
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178705&highlight=blade
 
Last edited:

neophyte

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
9,960
Location
Pennsylvannia
I guess im just having a hard time figuring out the build of a blade to limit its uses. I thought number of teeth and the material (carbide) would have the biggest effect?
But the orientation of the teeth, angle, cut, etc... also play a big part in it.

I remember another poster in the "hot deals" section posting a 14" high tooth, steel cutting blade that Home Depot started carrying a while back for ~$40. Ill see if I cant find that.

Here is the original link to the blade (Milwaukee Endurance) for $36! Now its $139!
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178705&highlight=blade

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I figured the other answers sort of covered the subject. The differences might not just be number of teeth and the fact that the teeth are carbide. There are different types of carbide. Some types are harder and/or more brittle. There may also be differences in the way the teeth are brazed to the blade body. The teeth and bodies of some blades may also be coated with a material like titanium nitrate or boron carbide. Both material are used to prevent Galling (i.e., material transfer) from the stock being cut since the galling increases friction and heat. Your best bet may be to check Ebay for a name brand blade that may have gotten surplussed. Check all the specs including model # , etc., to verify the blade might actually work. Unfortunately I believe the blades may be the major expense with these saws.
 

thinmac

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
68
Location
Oakland
Aluminum and steel are night and day when you cut, drill, or mill them. As neophyte mentioned, galling is a much bigger problem with aluminum, so titanium coatings (there a few different kinds these days, but other than TiN they're prohibitively expensive) are good to have. Steel isn't nearly so bad on that front, though, and TiN has other disadvantages - teeth can't be resharpened, since that will grind off the coating, and while the titanium adds heat resistance if you go past that point it quickly gets trashed. Heat is also an issue: aluminum stays much cooler than steel when cut, both because it's softer and because it's a great heat conductor. A lot of the heat from cutting aluminum will be drawn out into the surrounding material quickly, which is less true of steel. Tooth offset also makes a difference, although I don't off the top of my head remember what the proper offset is for steel and aluminum. Offset is how each tooth is bent to the side, and is sometimes alternating (left, right, left, right) or in various patterns (left, left, right, right, or left, center, right, center, or others). My guess would be that if you used an aluminum blade on steel you'll burn it up very quickly and that if you used a steel blade on aluminum it'll gum up. You're all materials blade is probably just a reasonable compromise between the ideal blade for each material, but buying the specific blade for each metal will give you the longest life and cleanest cuts.

Have you looked into getting the blades resharpened? Carbide blades can usually be resharpened a few times so long as you haven't lost any teeth. I would spend the money to have a shop do the sharpening; cutting steel the angle at which the teeth hit your material is very critical, and having it wrong can send a carbide tooth flying. It also needs to be done differently from having a wood cutting blade sharpened, so make sure they've worked with metal cutting blades in the past. My local saw blade supply generally has a quick turnaround for the service. A good saw blade seller will also have lots of good advice on how to get the most use out of your blade and keep them sharp longer.
 

CWP1616L

Banned
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
3,297
Location
USA
Diablo blades for cutting wood are the bees knees. The blades are silent, so I don't hear the metallic ring of the blade cutting through the wood anymore; all I hear is the saw's motor. Another great feature is nothing sticks to the blade; it's like Teflon fry pan.
 

PT Doc

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
3,197
Question for those using the Milwaukee blades:

Did it last? I saw some negative comments about the Milwaukee blades but since they were $40 through hd, I picked up 4 but have to get the saw still. Thanks.
 

RCStocker

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Messages
1,266
Location
Indiana, California, Australia
The rake angle on the carbide teeth has to be designed for the material being cut. Woodworking crosscut blades have sharp teeth that angle forward slicing at the wood like a cat claw. Teeth for metal are usually angled backward so the teeth angle scrape a small amount of metal at a time. If you use the wrong blade type the material may melt, tear, or burn, and the blade might lose its teeth, or the saw, or its operator may get injured. Some blades may work on other materials, but usually with non optimal results.

Well Stated. The right tool for the job. If you are cutting wood use a Forest Blade. They are so sharp you need to ware a glove to install them on the saw.

There is a huge difference in the quality of carbide. There is a reason there is a pirce spread on the blades. Do not put a lot of pressure cutting metals. I have seen the carbide teeth fly off. They can kill you. Always ware a face shield.
 

bcradio

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
6,017
Location
New Mexico
I guess im just having a hard time figuring out the build of a blade to limit its uses. I thought number of teeth and the material (carbide) would have the biggest effect?
But the orientation of the teeth, angle, cut, etc... also play a big part in it.

I remember another poster in the "hot deals" section posting a 14" high tooth, steel cutting blade that Home Depot started carrying a while back for ~$40. Ill see if I cant find that.

Here is the original link to the blade (Milwaukee Endurance) for $36! Now its $139!
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178705&highlight=blade

Don't try and out-guess the manufacturer on this one. Just read what the blade is designed to cut and stick with that. Sometimes you have to pay to play.

If you can find one on sale, then that may be the best bet.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom