School me on Dial Indicators

[Alpine4x4]

I'm going to be diving into the rebuild of a Ford ZF-5 manual transmission soon and am currently gathering required tools. One I dont have nor have any measurable experience with is a dial indicator. I have a basic understanding of how they work as I used one in highschool machine shop a decade ago. I'm going to need one to measure gear end play after the bearings and gears are re-assembled on the mainshaft. I will need one that is capable of reading .15mm-.45mm accurately. I dont need the best of the best, but also dont want the cheapest inaccurate option available. In my brief searching it looks like the Mitutoyo 1803 would be a candidate. Also going to need a base as well. Thanks.

 

[jeepinerdeep]

I'm sure it's a nice indicator but I would think the short stroke would be limiting in future projects. For example, on ring and pinion setups you need the longer stroke and stem to get the thing mounted on something solid and snaked around into position.

Most automotive applications a standard 1" stroke .001" resolution is fine.

For instance I bought a used Starett 25-441 Indicator and put it on a knock off Noga style base from Shars. I think I have about $120 in the whole works.

 

[Mgdoug3]

I bought mine from Harbor Freight. The kit comes with a vise grip type base but I also bought a magnetic holder. I only needed it to find the highest point on a cam lobe to set injectors so I wasn't overly concerned about accuracy/measurements. It does seems to work great though and it was around $40 for everything. Napa would have had to order one and I remember it being in the $150 range.

 

[4x4gearhead]

Any central automotive dial indicator set should be affordable and of high enough quality for your needs now, and down the road. Used they cant seem to give away dial indicator sets, is see them for sale quite often for cheap money, it tempts me to buy them but i already have a couple lol.

 

[larry_g]

I agree with the above poster that is saying the indicator you selected has to short of an operating range.

I would also say that you have to be aware of how you are doing the setup on this so that you do get an accurate measurement. If your plunger on the indicator is not inline with the motion being measured you can get an error. So now you've got to figure out how to set things up properly. Research cosine error.

What is preventing you from using feeler gauges?

Can you post a picture of the setup you are trying to measure? https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn...T6cZuSSzmw6LBkF5HATlLQHHVOC6ON54aAkI8EALw_wcB
The back plunger set on the bottom right of the above link might suit you better.

is also a good source, at 17 min is the back plunger kit.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[mowkep]

I've always been a Teclock fan.

 

[Alpine4x4]

Thanks for the suggestions gents. Here is a link to a rebuild of a ZF5 with pictures showing where the dial indicator is. I guess I could use feeler gauges as it looks like they would work in this application.
https://www.oilburners.net/threads/zf5-s5-47-transmission-rebuild.62490/

 

[ChevyEFI]

If memory serves, I have one cheapie, one nicer one, both inches with half inch or 1" range.
The vice grip flex base on the HF unit can be a hassle. A mag. base w/ the two sliding rods is what you need.

Personally, I can't stand digital, because a pretty standard mechanical needle shows some resolution in between marks that may influence shim selection.

You'll want to have a caliper (again, I like a needle over digi.) if you are measuring shims. Cheap works here.

Ten years span between use of one and a one-time use for a manual box build doesn't call for Mitutoyo yet IMO. If you suddenly make it a regular use tool, you will know exactly what features are needed on your second one.

In doing manual box rebuilds since the 90s, I have upgraded lockring pliers Craftsman to Matco, snap-ring pliers Craftsman to Snap-On, and caliper from cheapie to Mitutoyo (used). Please post pics of your project for those of us who enjoy this stuff,

 

[ChevyEFI]

I was typing when you posted the rebuild link.

When he gets to

Put some bolts in to hold the case halves together and then flip the works over.
DSC00516.jpg
Now we check the bearing clearance to determine the shims we need to set the proper bearing preload. Tapered bearing

you may want to put half the bolts in, and torque them to spec.

Also, he suggests no shims for measurement. Sometimes, having one of the thinnest shims under each race gives you a shorter, more accurate measurement.

Good luck!

 

[Alpine4x4]

I was typing when you posted the rebuild link.

When he gets to you may want to put half the bolts in, and torque them to spec.

Also, he suggests no shims for measurement. Sometimes, having one of the thinnest shims under each race gives you a shorter, more accurate measurement.

Good luck!

Sweet, thank you very much for that and the above. I'm relatively frugal and would source parts used if at all possible. I'll definitely be getting a magnetic base.

I only went higher end brand as I assumed the cheaper units were less accurate and I'd rather spend the money up front than have to tear the box back down again. Any more suggestions for a unit guys? Model number or brand?

I have a feeling I will need to upgrade my snap ring pliers for this project

Thanks for all the small tips. Agree on torquing the halves, good call. I will document and post as I go.

 

[jeepinerdeep]

Any central automotive dial indicator set should be affordable and of high enough quality for your needs now, and down the road. Used they cant seem to give away dial indicator sets, is see them for sale quite often for cheap money, it tempts me to buy them but i already have a couple lol.

My first set was a Central Tools in a nice little wooden box I bought off the Mac truck. No complaints other than I wanted a fancier base. It was (still is) a good tool.

 

[HanShotFirst]

The dial indicators at Harbor Freight are good tools. They are accurate and surprisingly durable. I have started using them almost exclusively, and my Starrett's have all gone back in my box so I don't have to worry about breaking or damaging very expensive Starrett's.

 

[Alpine4x4]

Being that I'd like to order some stuff from Summit this seems like a logical choice

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-900016-1/overview/

I think I'd prefer a magnetic base vs clamping.

 

[rsanter]

I have some god used ones that are brand name if you are interested.
Otherwise frankly for what you are doing the HF $20 special swill Work just fine

 

[rsanter]

I have some god used ones that are brand name if you are interested.
Otherwise frankly for what you are doing the HF $20 special swill Work just fine

 

[cheechi]

The HF magnetic base is very good. I use one with my Starretts.

 

[timmyisme22]

If you're in Yakima, feel free to send me a message. I have stuff from school just sitting in my storage unit. Dial and test indicators, calipers, micrometers, etc.

 

[davethorik]

Having done a stint in a couple machine shops, I've come to the conclusion that dial indicators are something the Swiss simply do better than anyone else. Tesa, Etalon, Compac, Interapid, and newer B&S are all excellent. However, they are very, very pricy.

As others have mentioned, the HF specials are rugged, accurate, and repeatable enough to make them a good value. And if you smash one, you simply get another...you don't want to stick a gun in your mouth, which is the case when you watch it happen to a $325 Interapid.

 

[davethorik]

Another good brand to look for is Federal. These seem to be mostly a well-kept secret amongst older machinists, which on the used market is good, they can be found cheap. They also made Lufkin badged versions, along with Lufkin branded Compacs.

Federal is probably one of the best indicators to come out of USA, alongside Ames, Waltham, and Standard Gage. Long Island Indicator seems to poo-poo them for wearing out prematurely and being generally weak, HOWEVER that is the exact opposite from my experience.

I've found them to be absolute tanks. They have forged brass cases and are heavy! I have a Federal 1" travel indicator in .001 that I actually pulled out of a scrap bin because the upper sheet metal housing had gotten badly bent in a gnarly machine crash. I massaged the housing until the plunger was free again, and after it worked perfectly fine. I still have it to this day.

I believe Federal joined forces with the German firm Mahr at some point, also known for quality indicators. The Mahr-Federal indicators are still made in the USA to the best of my knowledge, and are just like the older Federals.

 

[Zewnten]

I bought a base of ebay for less than $20 that has a 100 lb pull and a snug (to hold the two rods together) for less than $10 and took two rods from a defunct printer for the arms. To this I hooked a mechanical dial indicator from Harbor Freight and I'm good to go. Less than $100 for anything I'll ever need

 

[Alpine4x4]

If you're in Yakima, feel free to send me a message. I have stuff from school just sitting in my storage unit. Dial and test indicators, calipers, micrometers, etc.

In Wenatchee unfortunately. Thanks for the offer though!

Thanks for all the info and suggestions guys. Keep it coming!