School me on Drywall!

[REFLEXX]

Gents,

I'm done insulating my "Garage-Mahal" and now it's time to "hand/tape and sand"

Here's what I've got:

1 room 14 x 23 x 9 ft ceiling = 655 sq ft (3 walls)

1 room 14 x 12 x 9 ft ceiling = 636 sq ft (4 walls)

1 room 14 x 11 x 9 ft ceiling = 546 sq ft (4 walls)

1 big room 23 x 29 x 10ft walls vaulted 15ft peak = 1,928 sq ft

Total square footage = 3,800 sqft of drywall


1. anyone know what's the going rate per sq ft?

2. drywallers have told me that a true "smooth" finish gets expensive and a light texture is much less costly.

3. what should I ask? what should I demand?

I can get the tools, it's just time/effort vs. cost. Is this a job best left to experts?

thanks in advance.

 

[Der Bugmeister]

If you can do bodywork, you can do drywall...just get the right tools - most of them are relatively cheap for small jobs.

The trick is to minimize the number of seams (less mudding/sanding). Start with the ceiling and work down. You can get drywall supports (rent them) to lift and support the ceiling sheets so the job isn't quite as back breaking.

A good mudding job requires 3 coats, with sanding in between. Using the right tools and touch, the amount of sanding should be minimal. Don't try to build up hollows too quickly, or the mud will sag/crack...and always use seam tape on the seams.

I also find that screws are superior to nails, especially if you get a drywall screw drill attachment.

Overall, it's really not that difficult, although the dust from sanding is the worst part. Especially if you threw on too much mud. I've done this a few times in the past, and my current attached garage looks just fine, except that I cheated and only used 2 coats of mud. If you look, you can see where I did that. Mostly.

Tool list:

- Drywall Screws
- Drywall Screw attachment for you drill
- Sharp Utility knife (the kind with the strong, two ended razor blades works great
- 4' Level (for scoring lines, levelling and marking studs on the board
- Pencil (duh!)
- Drywall hole saw (hand tool, about 8" long, narrow/pointed blade) looks a lot like a pruning saw
- Putty spreaders (the yellow plastic ones are fine). Couple wide ones, and one corner tool
- An optional tool you may be able to rent is a plaster/tape gun - just rolls it all onto the seams, slick as you please.

To cut the drywall, mark your cut. Use the level or straightedge to guide your utility knife for a nice straight cut. You don't need to go through the drywall - once you're about an 1/8" - 1/4" inch deep, stand the board on its side and lightly knee it from the side opposite your cut, then finish the cut from the backside.

With tape, you can get sticky fiberglass mesh tape which will adhere to the seam as you lay in the mud, or you can use the paper tape...just muck it up a bit (like wallpaper) so it stays in place.

 

[Bruce & Shirl]

And don't forget the gogles and face mask for dust .

The above instructions are great ! Later , Bruce

 

[bmwpower]

Completing the job takes a lot of time, especially that many sq feet. If you are pressed for time, sub the job out. If you enjoy learning a new technique over several weeks, give it a shot.

I'll add a couple of tools to the list:

- hawk (holds the mud while you spread it on the wall
- mixing auger
- drywall screwgun (don't waste your time with the drywall bits for a normal screwgun...tooooo slooooow...if you're doing a big job, buy a drywall screwgun).

 

[CraigFL]

I like to use the premixed mud... Be careful how you cover and store it from day to day so you don't get dry chunks in it.

 

[ChucksCrib]

Picking up a sheetrock lift off e-bay aint gonna hurt ya either..

http://www.garagejunkies.net/showthread.php?t=660

 

[NHCharger]

I've been a contractor for 21 years. Unfortunately I've had to do sheetrock from time to time.
You should be able to get a SF cost from a couple of contractors.
The above advice is good.
Tools. Buy a drywall screwgun. $95.00 at HD. Their a lot faster than using a regular screw gun. Also they have an adjustable tip for setting the screws, you want to have the screws recessed in but not broke through the paper. You can rent a drywall lift from most rental stores. That's what I did when I hung my shop (30x50, 11' ceiling). One weekend with one of my son's helping was all it took. When it comes time to sand rent a power drywall sander (made by PorterCable). It comes with a vacuem set up and it's made drywall sanding almost dust free. The only thing you'll have to hand sand is the inside corners. A set of Baker Staging with wheels will save you a lot of time. Buy a 4' Tee Square, makes cutting the drywall a lot quicker.

As far as finishing your going to get different opinions about paper tape versus fiberglass tape. I've used both. Fiberglass is easier to use. When hanging the rock don't screw the **** ends until another sheet it hung next to it. When finishing an inside corner you can buy a inside corner trowel or if you using a regular trowel just do one side at a time, let it dry then do the other side. You can also buy joint compound you have to mix up called easy sand. It goes on real smooth and drys quick.

 

[OldCarGuy]

Installing drywall is simple enough; but rather time consuming to do the right job. For ease of cleaning and best appearance it is better to go with a smooth surface rather than a textured one. The professionals like to go with a textured surface because it only requires one topping and hides a magnitude of errors. After the jobs done you will be disappointed with the results compared to a smooth finish.

Plan your cuts ahead of time. Trying to make the least amount of seams. Making as many of them on the factory edges as possible. One other inexpensive tool that I would recommend would be a 48” drywall "T" square. I suggest that you use 5/8” firerated drywall even if it isn’t required by code. It is much stronger than 1/2” and makes for a far superior overall job. The materials are rather inexpensive. I purchased a bit over 10,000 square feet of 5/8” 4’x12’ sheets at $.225 per foot for my garages. Adding the cost of screws, tape and mudd was around $2,500.00.

I suggest that you purchase the materials. Then start in one section per the posted instructions to see how it goes. Don’t expect 3,800 square feet to be a weekend job either. However if it becomes overwhelming you can always call in the “troops” to finish it.

 

[trovato]

I have a video from the PBS show "hometime" that has a lot of good info in it. If you've never done sheetrock before, watching how to do it helps a lot more than just explanations. There's a site, www.hometime.com that sells books and videos. I see a book and DVD there. It's not exactly what I have, but probably has the same material in it. As for doing this yourself, it's a BIG job. Yes, anyone can do it (even me) but just like bodywork, your first attempt will look like, well, a first attempt. You can overcome this with persistence. A pro does three coats. Anything that you don't like, you can always work on some more. You can keep messing with it until you're happy. But like I said, this is a BIG job. Personally, I wouldn't take on that big of a job myself. At least get some estimates and see if it's really worth the pain.

 

[REFLEXX]

You guys are the best! I honestly expected a few short repiles, but you guys went above and beyond.

I got a quote for $8,000 for this job and that's with me supplying the drywall! Granted, it's damn near the size of a house!!!

That $$$ makes my decision easier, I'm learning how! It's just sooo time consuming, I started this little project in Feb of 05'

I do have friends that can help, but then I don't want to be like the guy with the car addiction.

I've got all the tools (screw gun- belt fed, drywall saws, t-square, a few books, etc, etc.)

I've got 70 sheets of 4x12x5/8" (i think I need closer to 96 sheets!!!)

I'll be buying one of those lifts, i found it locally for about $220. (Thanks Chuck)

progress pics are coming as the "dry" walls go up.

 

[6t7gto]

reflexx,
i prefer to glue and screw ceiling panels.
david

p.s. i would step back and look at your material list.
i think 10' panels, for the walls, are going to save you a lot of waste.

 

[REFLEXX]

6t7,

The four "bays" of my Miracle Truss building are 11'6" between beams, the 12' sheets are perfect in a horizontal application. I think.

I would agree in a vertical 9' wall, I'd have 3' of waste. But stacking horizontally, it's 4' + 4' + 1' strip.

 

[6t7gto]

reflexx,
being the amateur that i am, i try not to have any **** joints.
i try for the factory edges.
i installed mine vertically.

david

p.s. now i see.
so you don't have a straight 14' or 23' wall.
gotcha.

 

[Cannoli]

Drywall is fun! So is taping! But they require different skills! If you are going for a smooth finish or a more economical 'spray-texture', consider subbing out the taping/finishing.

When I put myself through college, I worked for a Drywall/Taping contractor in San Francisco. As we installed sheetrock and the joints weren't the best (1/2" at times), the running joke was "don't worry about the joint, we know a good taper" ... a good taper can hide soooo many imperfections when "throwing up the 'rock" ... we were the tapers!

Since I was the low-man on the totem pole, I got stuck taping all the skylights - damn, that was tough - hot as hell up there and mud dried so quickly.

Do consider hiring a taping contractor to finish the walls.

Here is a good website for tools. Check the local rental companies too.

http://www.all-wall.com/

 

[swgray]

My tip would be furring strips. They hide any uneveness in the joists. Plus if you use 1 x 3's there is more surface area to hit with the screws, as well as more support at the joints.

I couldn't tell how your cross braces were passing your joists and studs, but this could be an easy way of taking care of issues with them, too.

Down side to this is more money and time. You'd also have to re-work the electric boxes at this point.

Everyone elses points are pretty much on the mark. We're all going to have our own way of doing the same thing, but the end result is the same.

Usually.

 

[Wile1Coyote]

My thought honestly would be for you to buy the drywall and install it yourself and then pay pro to tape and mud for you. Hanging drywall is no problem at all. Mudding and sanding *****! My .02.

Good Luck with it.

 

[Cannoli]

My thought honestly would be for you to buy the drywall and install it yourself and then pay pro to tape and mud for you. Hanging drywall is no problem at all. Mudding and sanding *****! My .02.

Good Luck with it.

I second the thought ...

 

[Ray Cox]

for the 9 ' wall spend the money to use 54" x 12' sheets instaed of 48" X 12' and run them horizontal it is 10 times easyer to tape that way!! if the wall is 9' the 2 54" sheets cover it with one seam what part of the country are you in? I would also agree with others about paying a pro to tape, I would also start in a closet or small room if there is any try a few sheets and see how it goes. also sugest getting one of those big pacs of blades for your knife they dull fast and the jod looks better and goes faster with a sharp one

you will also find they make a Thick heavy Paper tape with medal strips in it I would ighly recomend that in the 45 deg on the peak of the ceiling as well as the top of the wall 45deg this tape will make for a straiter looking joint when your done taping. it is also helpfull to have a factory edge there so I would start at the peak of the ceiling with the first sheet and work down then work from the wall up to the center. leaving the non factory seam somewhere in the middle a factory seam is always easyer to tape .

 

[bmwpower]

I would pay a pro to tape and mud, but wouldn't the pros also want to hang the drywall, too? Kinda of like asking them to do part of the job...most contractors (not drywall) I've seen don't like doing anything but the whole job so they can **** your for the whole job. Do drywallers really do part of the job?

 

[REFLEXX]

Guys,

thanks for the input, but I blew the budget about 2 months ago. So I'm Mr. Drywall on this project. No biggie, I learn fast and work fast.

From what I can tell, most of the hatred of mudding and sanding comes from using too much mud and having to sand too much. I'll use one of those water-filters to keep the dust down and I consider all repetitive hard labor as forced exercize. I keep telling myself that I'm getting in (staying in) shape!!!

I'll start in the "storage" room and get plenty of practice, then I'll move up to the bigger rooms.

The bracing you see is flush with the walls. Yes, I notched EACH one of those 2x6's to fit that steel bracing. I also put a dab of silicone between, so I don't get any odd harmonics in the building or weird rattles after the walls are on.

The drywallers (both guys) said that installing the drywall was easy, it's the finishing that's tough. Well I'm gonna find out and you guys will get all the gory details.

The peak will actually have a flat panel that's about 18" wide. And I will start at the peak of the vaulted area and work my way down.

later,

 

[bmwpower]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but on the bigger knives pay attention to the bend of the knife. You can't tell from afar, but the metal blade is bent in the middle.

I like to use the knife with the bend towards the joint when first laying the tape. This helps imbed the tape into the factory joint. On later coats, flip the knife over. Use some pressure when putting on the next thin layers of mud as this helps bend the knife straight making for a flat joint.

 

[Cannoli]

Boy, things have changed ... my favorite knife for taping is the 10" knife (my coworkers were partial to the 12"). It was simply a thin sheet of tempered steel attached to a very comfortable handle. I can't see myself using a knife that is not flat. What seperates the boys from the men is how well one can 'feather' with the knife, quickly. I guess it is a matter of personal preference - I'm Old School in this case.

 

[bmwpower]

Boy, things have changed ... my favorite knife for taping is the 10" knife (my coworkers were partial to the 12"). It was simply a thin sheet of tempered steel attached to a very comfortable handle. I can't see myself using a knife that is not flat. What seperates the boys from the men is how well one can 'feather' with the knife, quickly. I guess it is a matter of personal preference - I'm Old School in this case.

I'm not sure how "new" this design is, but I believe my father has several 20+ year old knives and they, too, have the bend. I was unaware of this until my father (the expert) schooled me...he's been taping/mudding at least 30 years.

 

[beatercj5]

if you have 9 foot ceilings you should be using 54 inch drywall for the walls just lay them length ways when doing the walls. this way you have a seam around the center of the room instead of doing vertical seams. I just finished my house and garage and i have 9 foot walls in my house and it works great.

 

[krooser]

I'm just glad that YOU are doing it....I'v had my fill of THAT.....

 

[indyjps]

could not find anyone willing to just tape and mud a job. it wasnt like they were coming otu and turning the job down, noone would even show up to bid it.

 

[krooser]

could not find anyone willing to just tape and mud a job. it wasnt like they were coming otu and turning the job down, noone would even show up to bid it.

That's probably because the quality of the finished product depends upon how the sheetrock was hung...the contractors don't want to get in a ******* match with a customer over the quality of the finishing if they didn't do the whole thing.

Kinda like doing your own surgury and hiring a doctor to sew you up....

 

[jmiller]

anyone know what's the going rate per sq ft?

In KY it's approximately .50 a sq ft.
The vaulted ceiling would run around .75 a sq ft.

In this area three knives are used. 6" first, 10" second & 12" final coat.

Most also add some water to the mud to help it flow easier.

 

[REFLEXX]

I just started drywalling last weekend and updated my garage build post. But here it is in case someone does a search for drywalling info:

1. Shim & shave the walls and ceilings. After checking with a 6 foot level, I used a planer to shave the high spots on the wood. Then i used special (paper) shim strips (from HD) to build up the low spots, I just stapled them on. I ended up with walls that within 1/16" flat top to bottom.

2. Buy a planer, don't try to do it by hand. Buy a cheapie then toss it (from HF), or buy a nice one and keep it for wood working projects.

3. DRYWALL HOIST / LIFT! Don't even try to put up ceilings without one! i bought one off ebay for $200 and it works like a charm!!!

4. SENCO self feeding screw gun. What an awesome tool. it buries the drywall screws PERFECTLY every time and only using one hand!!! I bought the corded one, because if I use it again two years from now, the battery on a cordless one would be shot! Plus it was cheaper (only $100)

5. get help, at least 2-3 people and buy the drywall books at HD, they were a great help.

6. Use a Rotozip for outlets holes, especially the round ones!

6. And the BEST tool by far it called the "BLINDMARK". It's SOOO easy to use to help locate the outlet boxes: http://www.blindmark.com/ put one piece into the outlet box, put up the drywall with a few screws, snap on the opposing locator piece, draw a line around it, and cut out! That's it, no need to take the drywall back off! Superb.

 

[OldCarGuy]

Nothing can compare to good on the job training.

 

[REFLEXX]

Yep!

Except I can't quit and they will not fire me!