School me on engineered hardwood floor please

[Rod N]

Hello Gents,

Looking to put engineered hardwood flooring in my basement that has a concrete floor. I will be using the click type and an underpad.

Which is better of these 2? The more expensive one is plywood base and the others are some type of fiber board.

Is it you get what you pay for or ....?

Thanks
Rod

 

[ChaseDE]

As long as you follow the instructions for acclimation, the subfloor passes the moisture test, and you provide a proper moisture barrier either should work just fine.

If it were me and I could pass the above tests I would use the cheaper option. I have quite cheap engineered hardwood in my kitchen that also has 2 entrances from outside that get wet and it has held up just fine for almost 3 years now.

 

[Rod N]

I will be using engineered hardwood, hence the thread.

Is there a difference between the fiber one and the plywood one?

I don't want to cheap out as it will be going in my bar room.

 

[Toomanytools?]

Yes there is a difference...Hence the question fiber or plywood?

http://www.gohaus.com/the-beat/flooring/whats-the-difference-between-hdf-and-plywood/

 

[archy99]

I used the Dricore panels in my basement. So far, so good. Did carpet and vinyl over that. Wasn’t sure whether I was going to see moisture after the rebuild (hadn’t seen much previously, but apparently I had opened the floodgates when I expanded the basement), so didn’t want to spend a ton down there. Couple of the panels could have been shimmed better to account for an uneven floor. I like that if there is moisture coming through the slab, it has a way to dissipate or head to the floor drain. Mfr instructions cover wood floors over the dricore panels. I personally would not want a fiber based product anywhere near the concrete slab, regardless of the thin pad. Could easily absorb moisture from vapor alone, and potentially cause mild issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rod N]

Yes there is a difference...Hence the question fiber or plywood?

http://www.gohaus.com/the-beat/flooring/whats-the-difference-between-hdf-and-plywood/

Thank you!!!

The fiber stuff reminds me of the fiber baseboards. I used it once in a below grade basement and it was a big mistake.

 

[astroracer]

I am in the process of doing the same thing. My house has a wood foundation and I am hesitant to go with any type of wood product just because of the chance of water/moisture getting to the floor. Any washer/water heater or sump pump problems will be catastrophic to a wood plank floor.
I am looking at vinyl plank flooring just for the water proof aspect. There is some very nice looking vinyl out there and it compares to wood for feel and look. just something to think about.
Mark

 

[Justind97]

Depends on the quality of the fiber one. I have engineered hardwood in my basement from Costco.
I installed it, and ended up having left over scraps in the back of my truck for about 8 months. Rain, snow, freezing, thawing. Not once did it absorb any water that could actually be perceptible. I was sold.

Depending on the quality of the plywood one, I would be leery.

And take into account, the width of the flooring. Basement floors aren't exactly perfectly flat. My floor has a few issues where the transitions of the cement start sloping down. Having smaller planks allows the transitions to not be so apparent.

 

[Rod N]

They make some very good underlay/vapour barrier these days so moisture from below isn't an issue. Yes they make some nice fake wood vinyl, but at the end of day it's not the real thing.

 

[Rod N]

Depends on the quality of the fiber one. I have engineered hardwood in my basement from Costco.
I installed it, and ended up having left over scraps in the back of my truck for about 8 months. Rain, snow, freezing, thawing. Not once did it absorb any water that could actually be perceptible. I was sold.

Depending on the quality of the plywood one, I would be leery.

And take into account, the width of the flooring. Basement floors aren't exactly perfectly flat. My floor has a few issues where the transitions of the cement start sloping down. Having smaller planks allows the transitions to not be so apparent.

Good points.
I do like the wider one, but yes there could be an issue if the floor isn't level.
No idea of the quality of the plywood one (Goodfellow). It is not on their website. I guess it must be made for the bigbox stores exclusively. When you buy from a place like Lowes, I don't know if you can be buying quality or what.
BTW The fiber ones do have a single layer of ply on the bottom.

 

[ChaseDE]

I have heard horror stories and don't dare go to a site like thefloorpros to ask for advice about run of the mill flooring and DIY. I was skinned alive asking about putting the lumber liquidators engineered hardwood in my kitchen. It went in no problem, fast, easy, looks good and has held up perfect so far.

I just put real 3/4" x 2 1/4" hardwood in the front living room, back breaking work but looks great and matches the surrounding areas.

 

[ChaseDE]

Chase,
We're considering your floor choice for the ceiling on a back porch. I don't dare ask the question out loud.
I see no reason not to instead of the standard tongue and groove.

Do you see a reason I couldn't do the ceiling as easily as a floor? (except that I will be able to live with the slight misalignment that would break your toe on a floor)
(the ceiling is now half inch t111 type plywood in excellent shape...so, in essence we already have a subfloor up there)

3/4" x 2 1/4" hardwood? The hardwood (even the old stuff from 1985 when the house was built) is still tongue and groove but you have to cleat/nail it into the subfloor with a power nailer. The power nailer is heavy but works amazing on the floor, no idea how you would use it on a ceiling though unless you are he-man. ETA: no idea how you would install this stuff WITHOUT it either like back in the olden days with just a hammer, you would have to be a eagle eyed artisinal craftsman to put a nail at a perfect 45deg angle every 8-10" on this stuff right in the crotch of the tongue like that hahha

I would think about using simple thinner slats and gluing it. my uncle has wood slat like that on his front porch cieling and it looks awesome but I don't know what it actually is or how its attached.

I found this where they glue it. http://www.addicted2decorating.com/inexpensive-diy-wood-slat-ceiling.html

For real hardwood I used a cleater like this beast, air assist shoots like 2" long super heavy duty staples/cleats. it's like 11 lbs. http://www.bostitch.com/products/to...nailers/hardwood-flooring-cleat-nailer/miiifn

This is similar to what I have in the living room, pic attached.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bruce-L...ide-Natural-Oak-20-sq-ft-case-CB921/100112927

 

[ChaseDE]

Double post, to the original poster this is what I put in my kitchen, very cheap like $1 a sq. ft. engineered hardwood from lumber liquidators. Been down 3ish years now and not a problem, you can see in the 1 picture the garage door entry (most used) and the back patio slider are both there, they are used multiple times a day with rain, snow, whatever getting tracked in and misc water from the sink and dishwasher daily too. The new stuff is quite good.

And that stuff is the kind with the pad already glued to the back of it, it's floating, and I did put a vapor barrier under it as well.

 

[ChaseDE]

HA no problem man, any time Just look at the nailer though, you seat it on the tongue then take a rubber mallet and smack it to drive the cleat. If you are off on the tongue or don't smack it hard enough it will not put the cleat in the right place OR all the way in. If this happens IT IS A PAIN IN THE A$$ to pull that cleat out, I snipped them in half then used vise grips to wiggle them till they broke but it is HARD. You learn to not make those mistakes fast haha.

I did have to face nail the first 3 rows and last 5 rows or so cause the nailer is so big, my cheapy HDX nailers slung 16 ga nails in the faces just fine without a single crack or split.

For reference I knocked that kitchen out (click lock, floating, engineered) with my dad in about 6 or 7 hours. That living room (solid, stapled, hardwood) took 18 straight.

 

[James-W]

Lumber Liquidators in Madison next to Harbor Freight has a lot of wood flooring for a pretty decent price. I don't know of anyone who has installed any flooring from there, but in the store it looks like it is pretty good stuff. I have thought about getting some and putting it in our kitchen. We have a southern pine wood floor in our kitchen and I don't particularly care for it. We have a few pretty deep scratches in the floor and I would like to replace it. Only thing is, I would have to remove all the lower cabinets and the rip out the old floor. I suppose I can do all that, but I wouldn't want to do it until at least Spring, maybe even Summer.

We could put down ceramic or porcelain tile, but if the wife and I go that route I would hire that done. I like the idea of the tile, the wife likes the wood look on the floor, maybe we could find some tile that resembles wood. It gives us something to think about (and argue about) over the Winter.

 

[ChaseDE]

Depending on the height from your kitchen floor to your adjacent room you may be able to float the new wood over the existing wood. I did in my kitchen without taking out cabinets.

Adjacent hall was real hardwood and about 3/8" to 1/2" higher then the congoleum in the kitchen. I floated the 3/8" click-lock engineered wood over the congoleum, just moving the baseboards up a bit and added quarter round, done deal.

 

[Rod N]

Speaking of quarter round. Do I need this for the baseboards if I don't need the space? (Gap between wall and flooring is less than depth of baseboard)
I don't think I do, but the designers think it's like pants without a belt. lol

 

[ChaseDE]

no you don't need quarter round if you don't NEED it.... in my opinion.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Personally, I would NEVER install any type of wood floor directly over concrete, ESPECIALLY in a basement.

There are several brands of elevated (2" ?) insulated sub-flooring with moisture barrier. They all allow small amounts of water to travel underneath to a drain.

 

[Denwood]

I was in the same boat looking for a basement solution that was 100% waterproof and ended up using the Lifeproof Isocore vinyl plank from HD. It can go directly over concrete, tile etc with no underpad and is waterproof. It’s also a lot warmer on the feet.

It’s quite a bit stiffer than typical vinyl plank, has integrated underlay and is treated both sides with a mold/mildew inhibitor.

Before:

After:

 

[Bluevista]

Speaking of quarter round. Do I need this for the baseboards if I don't need the space? (Gap between wall and flooring is less than depth of baseboard)
I don't think I do, but the designers think it's like pants without a belt. lol

How thick is your base?
The worse thing you can do is not leave enough expansion space. The floor needs at least a 1/2" to any wall or fixed surface, it can contract too. If the the base isn't thick enough to cover the floor by a bare minimum of a 1/4" you're taking a chance. If the floor can run all the way to the wall plate with no plaster/drywall/covering on it it's okay to just have base.
No shoe looks bad unless it's a tile floor IMO, like pants without a belt.
BTW, you need shoe mold, it's 1/2"-7/16" thick and 3/4" high, shaped differently than 1/4 round. 1/4 round comes in different thicknesses and usually used when the base is left on the existing floor to cover the gap.

 

[blacksporty]

I have engineered hardwood floors in about 1200 sq ft of my house. They have been down 16 years. Mannington is the brand, 7 layers of ply 5/8" thick total, they were glued down over concrete, was supposed to be able to screen them twice(light sanding??) and sand and refinish once over the lifetime. I have done nothing to them and they still look great and that is with 2 large 85 lbs dogs for the first several years and now medium sized dogs.

The top 2, in your pick look like laminate to me, I would stay away from those.

 

[Radix2]

So many nice vinyl planks these days, perfect for basement slabs, no way I would do wood based products down there anymore.

 

[Zippercat]

I’ve used some of the PVC shoe, such as this one, in interior high moisture areas:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/TIM-127...or-Only-Base-Shoe-Moulding-10001970/204188260

This material comes in other profiles and cuts easily with a miter saw. Easy to paint (lot faster and easier to paint before installing, then touch up nail holes). Test your trim gun on scrape piece to get correct air pressure and use thinnest brads your equipment can handle. Too much air or thicker nails can cause the nail holes to dimple.

 

[lakelandcat]

A floor I was involved with from a big box store.
Their closeout was bought.
It wouldn't click together for the homeowner.
Ceramic wood look tile being installed by a pro in another part of the house, the pro looked at the wood flooring, diddled with it for an hour or so
Declared it miscut.
Homeowner took it all back.
Homeowner steps up to HD highest quality hybrid wood floor and a professional installation.
Installer puts down two rows, calls the boss, calls the manufacturer rep. A completely Different brand and type and width, miscut.
Sent back.
New arrives.
Miscut.
Await new shipment with a different batch number, floor goes down easily as it should have.

Just a story. Be prepared. There might be a reason the manufacturer doesn't claim it as theirs....

I had the same problem, only because I followed the manufacturer directions, they advised I come in at a 45 degree angle, after playing with it I found that if I came in at a 80-90 degree they popped right in. Mine has the pad on the back which makes it real convertible. I did put down moisture barrier. Its been down 6 months and still looks as good as the day I installed. I'm sold. Price was around $50 box.