I will be helping to disassemble and reassemble a 1937 Harley for the Fire Museum. When it gets put back together it many fasteners will be painted or powder coated or cad/zinc plated. Will the higher end sockets, starting with Snap On give less grief to the finishes on hardware than stuff you can buy online or in the big box stores?
School Me On High End Sockets Please
- Thread starter captmoto
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TheToolEnthusiast
Well-known member
It’s all about the tolerances of the socket you use. Snap-On sockets for example are very low tolerance so the sockets grip better and you have less chance of rounding the head of a bolt.
msharley
Well-known member
Hey Capt,
Highly recommend the Snap On SIX POINT sockets & wrenches.
They will not mar the finish on the Fasteners....
Later, Mark
619DioFan
Well-known member
You can wrap a little painters tape on the bolt head or nut to protect the finish prior to tightening.
Lol
APEowner
Well-known member
Don't use the Snap-On Flank drive open end wrenches on fasteners that you don't want marked up.
General Geoff
Well-known member
What I've seen is guys put masking tape on the wrench flats or, in this case, socket flats to prevent marring of polished or otherwise highly finished exposed fasteners.
WWheeler
Well-known member
For chromed or painted fasteners we'll put a standard blue paper shop towel over it and the socket or wrench on that sandwiching the shop towel in between. It'll grip the fastener and won't slip or mar. No high-end arm and leg professional tools are absolutely necessary. They won't hurt, but any decent quality 6 pt tool will gitrdone.
four.cycle
Well-known member
^ I always have used just plain old masking tape, wrapped around those fancy chromed pipes and rings when working on plated plumbing stuff. Works fine. Cheap. Just go slow.
Kscardsfan
Well-known member
Time and patience are your friends here. Avoid flank drive, WrightGrip etc here. Will high end sockets work better? Probably. Are they absolutely necessary? I doubt it. Also, we need pictures of this bike.
isb cornbinder
Well-known member
The best sockets I have are SUNEX. The impact Sunex are thin enough to substitute for chrome sockets. For comparison, the Sunex are much like the MAC impact sockets. I made a living with my Sunex. Sunex would be my first choice if I had to do this again.
For clarification purposes, Snap-on Flank Drive Plus wrenches are the ones with "teeth" on the open end for better grip on tough fasteners. The Plus part of the designation is what indicates the wrenches have the modified open end that the OP should avoid if he wants to keep his fasteners looking nice. Flank Drive Plus Snap-on tools are only sold in a couple different forms, and it costs a noticeable amount more to have tools with that feature.
Snap-on Flank Drive refers to the box end of their wrenches and sockets having off-corner engagement. Almost every wrench and socket currently being made (by any manufacturer) has flank drive style off-corner engagement these days, so the name "Flank Drive" doesn't mean much anymore. Sockets and wrenches with off-corner engagement are compatible with plated and painted fasteners, because that feature reduces the chance of chipping coatings off at the corners/edges of the fasteners during installation.
The recommendation of painter's tape might work and it might not depending on how tight your sockets fit onto the heads of your fasteners. I usually use a blue shop paper towel (like someone else mentioned) and pinch it between the fastener and socket head or I will take a plastic shopping bag and use it the same way. Sometimes one way works a little better than the other depending on the situation.
Walkers
Well-known member
My method has been hard won, and is by far the best method for dealing with tool marks on chrome, SS, and painted fasteners. The method is, learn to love tool marks. They show the care taken while assembling, and that the fasteners have had attention paid to them by a craftsman who had quality tools and good skills.
Kscardsfan
Well-known member
Sorry. I should’ve clarified that better. But yes that’s what I was trying to say.
APEowner
Well-known member
Thanks for the clarification. I should have specified the plus.
Iridium rand
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Generally speaking there’s not a huge difference in the functionality of sockets no matter how much more you pay, the absolute cheapest no-name dollar store junk might have bad enough tolerances to not fit right and round off corners but anything with a real and reputable name on it will work fine. Most of the high end features are thinner walls with similar strength, good knurling, color coding etc. but when it comes to damaging finishes they’re probably all about the same (except spline drive, that digs into them more than standard 6 point)
stick to the already mentioned methods with tape and plastic inserts if you really want to avoid marks, there is no special type of socket or tool that completely avoids finish damage without just using a softer material in contact with it.
stick to the already mentioned methods with tape and plastic inserts if you really want to avoid marks, there is no special type of socket or tool that completely avoids finish damage without just using a softer material in contact with it.
I’ve never used them but I immediately thought of this:
Snap-on 6 pc Metric Non-Marring Socket Insert Set - PSCM600
Pricey for what it is (i.e. it’s Snap-on) but there are similar items out there if you look around:
Socket/Wrench Non Marring Insert Set - RX2092
Snap-on 6 pc Metric Non-Marring Socket Insert Set - PSCM600
Pricey for what it is (i.e. it’s Snap-on) but there are similar items out there if you look around:
Socket/Wrench Non Marring Insert Set - RX2092
BlitzcrankJapan
Well-known member
Ko-Ken Surface Drive sockets are designed for use on Chromed, Aluminium, and damaged or worn fasteners.
Their design reduces damage to fasteners and it works very well. They will 'feel' loose. But they work as designed.
Their design reduces damage to fasteners and it works very well. They will 'feel' loose. But they work as designed.
I was thinking of Koken too - but honestly, sockets are probably the hand tool where there's the least difference from cheap to expensive in most use-cases.
Before I get flamed I should clarify - it's not that there's no difference between Husky and Nepros socketry, it's that the difference in function is a lot smaller than, for example, Husky and NWS pliers.
The difference between Williams and Snap-on, for example, probably won't matter much to your fasteners. I would just use a "good" brand like Williams, Proto, Koken, Nepros, Felo - even Tekton.
On the other hand, since you're talking about motorcycle assembly, there may only be like four to six sizes you need for fasteners that will show, so it probably isn't a big deal to go with Snap-on.
Before I get flamed I should clarify - it's not that there's no difference between Husky and Nepros socketry, it's that the difference in function is a lot smaller than, for example, Husky and NWS pliers.
The difference between Williams and Snap-on, for example, probably won't matter much to your fasteners. I would just use a "good" brand like Williams, Proto, Koken, Nepros, Felo - even Tekton.
On the other hand, since you're talking about motorcycle assembly, there may only be like four to six sizes you need for fasteners that will show, so it probably isn't a big deal to go with Snap-on.
some of the higher qaulity sockets may not even work as the fitting tolerance may be to tight to get it over a covered bolt head. i noticed nepros fit tighter than other brands i have. craftsman or probly any HF stuff should have enough slop to tape the bolt head
purplezr2
Well-known member
Wonder if a guy could 3D print them out of ABS....I’ve never used them but I immediately thought of this:
Snap-on 6 pc Metric Non-Marring Socket Insert Set - PSCM600
Pricey for what it is (i.e. it’s Snap-on) but there are similar items out there if you look around:
Socket/Wrench Non Marring Insert Set - RX2092
NORTON'S SHOP
Well-known member
I rebuilt one of my Harleys many years ago and purchased a set of SO nylon insert sockets. Used them once. Maybe they have improved since then, but these were junk. Couldn't even come close to the torque spec of any fastener without rounding off the insert. May sound kind of redneck, but I resorted to using an adjustable wrench wherever I could, and where I couldn't fit the wrench, I made a custom, tight fitting socket. I was **** about that stuff back then...not so much any more.
ZRX61
Well-known member
Aircraft I've restored are in collections all over the planet. I just use regular tools without any plastic insert or masking tape etc wrapped around the nut or bolt.
When it comes to painted bolts we just get a piece of cardboard, poke holes with an awl, stick the bolts in the holes & spray them. If the paint you're using can't withstand being installed once you need to use better paint.
When it comes to painted bolts we just get a piece of cardboard, poke holes with an awl, stick the bolts in the holes & spray them. If the paint you're using can't withstand being installed once you need to use better paint.
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Alpine4x4
Well-known member
I’ve never used them but I immediately thought of this:
Snap-on 6 pc Metric Non-Marring Socket Insert Set - PSCM600
Pricey for what it is (i.e. it’s Snap-on) but there are similar items out there if you look around:
Socket/Wrench Non Marring Insert Set - RX2092
I also have these. I bought them to keep from marring small fasteners on fishing reels. For small low torque applications like that they are OK for a bit. I have rounded the 10mm one off though from use. They will not stand up to any real amount of torque so be aware.
Ricky Joe
Well-known member
Make sure you keep the head bolts. They are an odd thread, and you will probably have to make them if you lose them because finding them is just about impossible. That’s for the overhead valve model.
Indexmill
Well-known member
I would not put any real torque on any chromed fastener that I didn't want scared up. I don't believe that tape will protect it.
If I could only have one thing off the snap on truck it would be a set of 3/8ths metric shallow 6 points. My set is 35 years old, money well spent. Better yet get the Williams for half the price! And a ratcheting screwdriver. 
Good info there, thanks. Here it is as it sits. https://www.lacountyfiremuseum.com/photograph-collection/entry/238/
We plan to disassemble and repaint in a 2 tone green as it would have appeared as a Forester and Fire Warden Patrol unit. The wardens were actually county game wardens too. Somewhere in the archives is a picture of a patrolman with a mountain lion laid out over the handlebars. It should be fun.
We will do the bag and tag and lots of pictures and videos documenting the disassembly. Thanks for the info on the head bolts. I don't think the motor will come apart since the bike starts and runs.
I did notice while tearing down a 1923 REO Speedwagon that many of the heads of bolts and nuts were really tight. Almost like they were built to a different spec 100 years ago.
sweet victory
Well-known member
I think this comment needs a little more clarification: Flank Drive wrenches are safe; it's the Flank Drive Plus wrenches that have a serrated open end. The Flank Drive wrenches do not have a serrated open end.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
i admire the effort but the end product gets lost on me.
you are restoring a motorcycle for a museum to display? i would guess as being time/period accurate. i can see not wanting to completely chew up the fasteners but i can never understand restoring something that should be time/period accurate to something better or unlike what it ever was. i doubt anyone looked at that motorcycle in 1937 or any time since and complained about marks on the fasteners from assembly.
four.cycle
Well-known member
Indexmill said:
Plumbing fixtures don't require high torque. Generally hand tight is good enough. Been doing it that way since the early 1970s.
Yes, it will be displayed, time/period correct. Really will be a replica, unlike Engine and Squad 51 and the 69 Chevy Suburban Ambulance that are original. We just want to take as much care as we can when reassembling. I wish it was something we could display in it's original condition and patina. That always gets my attention first.
I personally like "over-the-top" restorations. I like "period-correct" restorations too. They're both fun.
I don't see the harm in making something better than the original if you've got the time and energy. I bet this will be an awesome piece of work when it's done.
I don't see the harm in making something better than the original if you've got the time and energy. I bet this will be an awesome piece of work when it's done.
if that is the case then reassembly with any type of tool available at that time seems most appropriate to me. original condition would include any minor marks and scuffs that would have incurred as if it had been manufactured then,
if a wrench left a mark in 1939, why is in wrong or inappropriate now.