School Me On Romex

[D45]

My shop is basically wired with white coated Romex

What is the diff between the white coated Romex and the yellow coated Romex?

I would love to redo it with conduit and pull the wire, but that's not cost effect for me

Most of the Romex was ran poorly, across the ceiling beams and all over the place......looks really bad and restricts me from using the ceiling as storage (because wires are everywhere)

I would love to redo it this winter, using longer pieces of wire that is hidden ontop of or on the sides of the exposed ceiling boards

Anything I need to know when looking at Romex for ceiling lights?

I assume I need 3 wire, right?

10/3 246' NMD-90 w/Ground
12/3 246' NMD-90 w/Ground
14/3 246' NMD-90 w/Ground
10-3 15' NM Wire with Ground
12-3 15' NM Wire with Ground

 

[cybrdyke]

Be careful with your lingo, or you'll get the wrong thing.
If you want 12 gauge with a black, a white and a bare ground, it's 12/2 with ground...NOT 12/3. 12/3 will have 3 insulated wires with a ground. I believe the 3rd conductor will be red.
CD

 

[Mustang51js]

The purpose of the color coating is mostly for inspectors so they can look quick and not read the casing. It works good for new employees when asked to run a wire

 

[justsam]

Are you doing the rewiring just to tidy things up, and make use of attic space, or do you also need to add electrical capacity?

It would be helpful to know if there is a subpanel in the garage, which will make your wiring a bit easier, or is there just a lighting circuit from the house, or is the main house panel in the garage?

I do not know what you want to store up in the cleared space you create, but the structure may not be designed for heavy loads there.

Is the garage attached or detached to the house?

 

[D45]

I just checked the Romex and its all white...... no external markings or printing on the outside insulation

I would be rewriring to tidy everything up, add some light fixtures and to add a few outlets

 

[D45]

Here is the attached shop on the left side of the house that the previous owner built

 

[D45]

The main panel for the house is 200amp service

There is a 100amp rated subpanel in the shop.....that is fed off a 60amp breaker from the main 200amp panel

 

[D45]

Thanks for that info

I will try to look closer at the casing on the Romex

 

[D45]

I was told that I want 12-2 with ground for my 120v circuits.

12-3 or 10-3 is only needed for 240v or 3 way switches

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I was told that I want 12-2 with ground for my 120v circuits.

12-3 or 10-3 is only needed for 240v or 3 way switches

14/2 or /3 is rated for 15amps

12/2 or /3 is rated for 20a...

10/2 or /3 is rated for 30a...

/2 can actually be used for 240v, white wire would be taped black or red...

/3 would be used for 120v/240v for say a MWBC(multiwre branch circuit), a device that needs both voltages, 3-way lighting, etc

About the only thing i can think of that would use 10/3 is a dryer circuit...

 

[D45]

So basically if I am only using the Romex to power shop lights (2-4 bulb fixtures; 48" long) or power normal 110v outlets, the 12/2 will be fine?

I just it also depends what AMP breaker they are running off of and what tools I will be plugging into the outlets

I am sure the 12/2 is fine for the shop lights though

 

[pattenp]

If you are unsure where to use #14 or #12 just use #12 for the lighting and outlet circuits and run the circuits off a 20 amp breaker.

 

[ripperd]

12/2 (20a) is overkill on a lighting circuit unless you have a ton of watts on the circuit. 14/2 is quite a bit cheaper and probably all you need unless you have 1000+ watts of lighting on the circuit.
But yeah, 12/2 + 20a breaker is a good idea for garage outlet circuits.

 

[pattenp]

12/2 (20a) is overkill on a lighting circuit unless you have a ton of watts on the circuit. 14/2 is quite a bit cheaper and probably all you need unless you have 1000+ watts of lighting on the circuit.
But yeah, 12/2 + 20a breaker is a good idea for garage outlet circuits.

Yes #14 is cheaper than #12, but depending how much is needed it may be cheaper to buy a larger roll of 12/2 and use all #12 than to buy smaller rolls of #14 and #12.

 

[D45]

Yeah I would just use #12 everywhere and save time and money, by just buying a larger roll of #12

I think they sell a large 250 foot roll

 

[Falcon67]

Yeah I would just use #12 everywhere and save time and money, by just buying a larger roll of #12

I think they sell a large 250 foot roll

This is what I did. At the time I did the shop, using both 12 and 14 would have saved maybe $20. I'd rather just had the one wire to go grab. I just did it all in 12-2, nearly 1000' of it.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Romex® is a registered trademark off Southwire.

Like Ski-Doo® (Bombardier Recreational Products) and Kleenex® (Kimberly-Clark)

 

[CNGsaves]

Pics . . . . this IS indeed GJ . . . . we need to SEE this garage full of Romex
that needs completely rewired.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Indeed, the actual technical term is Non-Metallic Cable, known in the code as NM-B. Straight NM is no longer addressed in the code and thus cannot be used, if you happen to have an old roll laying around.

I encountered some just the other day with no markings. Probably was the embossed variety that the embossing disappeared on. I pulled it out as it supplied an old register type bathroom heater. I pulled some new 14/2 w/grd and ran it from a DP 15 amp breaker to the line voltage thermostat we installed then to the new Cadet register heater 1600 watts (6.6 amps). Would have been a real bear to do all of the wires in the box behind the thermostat had it been 12 gauge. 14 gauge is a joy to work with.

Charles

 

[Norcal]

Romex® is a registered trademark off Southwire.

Like Ski-Doo® (Bombardier Recreational Products) and Kleenex® (Kimberly-Clark)

You forgot Twistlock® (Hubbell Inc.) and Sheetrock® (United States Gypsum).

 

[87jeepwrangler]

it may be cheaper to buy a larger roll of 12/2 and use all #12 than to buy smaller rolls of #14 and #12.

Yeah I would just use #12 everywhere and save time and money, by just buying a larger roll of #12

This is what I did. At the time I did the shop, using both 12 and 14 would have saved maybe $20. I'd rather just had the one wire to go grab. I just did it all in 12-2, nearly 1000' of it.

in my experience, 1000' rolls are exactly the same price per foot as 250' rolls (i usually just hit lowes or depot, maybe electrical supply shops are different, idk).

so depending on your wiring projects and lengths needed, i don't agree that using #12 wire everywhere will be any cheaper. it's going to greatly depend how much wire you need. if you need 200 ft of wire total for the entire re-wire and you'll never need wire again, then yes, all #12 wire will be cheaper. if you need more than that, or want wire left over for future projects, it will more than likely be cheaper to use #14 and #12.

250ft of 12/2 = $64.74 ($.26/ft)
1000 ft of 12/2 = $258 ($.26/ft)
250ft of 14/2 = $42.17 ($.17/ft)

as a homeowner, i always keep a 250ft roll of both #12 and #14 wire around. i find myself using them all the time here and there (if i owned a new construction house, this would be a different story).

 

[D45]

1000' roll of 12/2 is $250

1000' roll of 14/2 is $165

246' roll of 12/2 is $119

246' roll of 14/2 is $87

 

[D45]

1000' roll of 12/2 is $250

1000' roll of 14/2 is $165

246' roll of 12/2 is $119

246' roll of 14/2 is $87

I just found 12/2 Romex on Ebay for CHEAP!!!

Brand new 250' roll of 12/2 for $65-$90 shipped

There are even a ton of used rolls for cheap

I am definitely shopping for Romex today!

 

[D45]

For $15-$25 is a dedicated Romex stripper tool a good idea?

Or can I use a utility knife and my current wire cutters/strippers?

 

[ishiboo]

1000' roll of 12/2 is $250

1000' roll of 14/2 is $165

246' roll of 12/2 is $119

246' roll of 14/2 is $87

I have never seen those prices for 250' rolls, that is double what they should be. Sounds closer to UF prices.

14/2 250' here is $39.95.

12/2 250' here is $60.87.

As 87jeep said, the 1000' spools are exactly the same price as four 250' rolls, or close enough where it doesn't really matter.

 

[ishiboo]

I just found 12/2 Romex on Ebay for CHEAP!!!

Brand new 250' roll of 12/2 for $65-$90 shipped

There are even a ton of used rolls for cheap

I am definitely shopping for Romex today!

Where in Indiana are you? Those are not that cheap.

 

[ishiboo]

For $15-$25 is a dedicated Romex stripper tool a good idea?

Or can I use a utility knife and my current wire cutters/strippers?

Get a stripper. I like the K1412 for 12/2 and 14/2 work.

 

[D45]

I have never seen those prices for 250' rolls, that is double what they should be. Sounds closer to UF prices.

14/2 250' here is $39.95.

12/2 250' here is $60.87.

As 87jeep said, the 1000' spools are exactly the same price as four 250' rolls, or close enough where it doesn't really matter.

Yes, I checked with my local Menards online and what is what they list

 

[D45]

Where in Indiana are you? Those are not that cheap.

NW Indiana, about 45 min from Chicago

 

[D45]

Get a stripper. I like the K1412 for 12/2 and 14/2 work.

Ok thanks.......I figure it will make the install go faster and smoother

Plus I will have the tool for future projects

 

[D45]

Menards:

1000' roll of 12/2 is $250

1000' roll of 14/2 is $165

246' roll of 12/2 is $119

246' roll of 14/2 is $87

Home Depot:

250' roll of 12/2 is $62.47

Lowes:

250' roll of 12/2 is $65

I wonder why is it so much more at Menards???????????????

 

[D45]

1000' rolls are the main three box stores is $200+

 

[D45]

What about BX?

This this be a better product for a shop?

http://www.menards.com/main/p-2397082-c-6441.htm

More expensive.....but it is jacketed in a flexible steel

12/2 Solid Steel Armor MC
100'
$57.34

 

[ishiboo]

Menards:



Home Depot:

250' roll of 12/2 is $62.47

Lowes:

250' roll of 12/2 is $65

I wonder why is it so much more at Menards???????????????

I think you are looking up UF. The prices I quoted are Menards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: Yeah, you're looking at the wrong thing. Prices are just about the same (Within a buck or two) as they are here.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Get a stripper. I like the K1412 for 12/2 and 14/2 work.

+1...I have several of the Klein Romex strippers, 14/2 12/2 version and the /3 version for 3 conductor cable....they work great...

What about BX?

This this be a better product for a shop?

http://www.menards.com/main/p-2397082-c-6441.htm

More expensive.....but it is jacketed in a flexible steel

12/2 Solid Steel Armor MC
100'
$57.34

BX is old. It has been replaced by AC but there is new old stock still out there. One problem with it is that it doesnt have an EGC and code no longer allows grounding to be done through the armor.....M/C would be a better choice....

 

[markyfly]

You forgot Twistlock[emoji768] (Hubbell Inc.) and Sheetrock[emoji768] (United States Gypsum).

And 100% Pure Beef[emoji768] (McDonalds)

 

[lksdrinker]

Menards:



Home Depot:

250' roll of 12/2 is $62.47

Lowes:

250' roll of 12/2 is $65

I wonder why is it so much more at Menards???????????????

Wow those prices at Menards really are high!

Dont forget about the remnants pile. I recently got a 250' roll of 12/2 from HD for $40 b/c someone had opened the package so it went to the remnant pile. I'm sure a few feet were missing but it felt pretty close to the same weight as an unopened roll of 250'. I might have lucked out though as I have not seen that again since; but if you have the luxury of time and are often at the store its worth checking it out.

 

[Norcal]

Just a note: MC, metal clad, & AC, armored cable (BX) have the same requirements as NM cable (Romex®) for protection from physical damage.

 

[D45]

I have been talking with a lot of people about this

A lot are suggesting to use 12/3? Something about adding on later if need be, the additional line in the Romex can just be capped off and used later, if needed?

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have been talking with a lot of people about this

A lot are suggesting to use 12/3? Something about adding on later if need be, the additional line in the Romex can just be capped off and used later, if needed?

Yeah, I guess you could do that, but almost no one does because of the added cost. !2/2 is pretty heavy duty and you could run a large number of outlets off of 1 piece and 1 breaker (there is no limit on how many outlets can be on a circuit).

2 somewhat unusual cases for 3 conductor (plus ground), besides a 3 way switch.

1. If you have a location where you are going to have 2 duplex outlets that that will frequently have 2 high current devices running at the same time (think of a kitchen where you might have a coffee pot and a toaster running at the same time). This is called a multiwire branch circuit. Not commonly used much these days because code requires the use of 12/2 with a 20A breaker and that is adequate for running those devices.
2. In the past couple of years, the code was changed to require both hot and neutral to be available at both ends of a switched circuit. There are really only a few cases where this is necessary ("smart" switches) and I don't know if this version of the NEC is enforced in all states.