Screwdriver Decision Fatigue

[zendriver]

Besides, I was responding to a post about outlet covers. They're hardly delicate, precise, or high torque. You can use a butter knife if you want.

 

[Max]

I love HF and yesterday after looking at these screwdrivers, I chose the magnetic parts cup.

Just sayin.

HF has some OK stuff, but those screwdrivers are not it. I got that set some time back and tossed it.

 

[M6erfan]

Hold up there!

Obsessing?!? I can go on for hours why phenolic plate covers are far superior to the nylon ones that everyone wants now.

Powder coated metal plates here, made in the USA. And the screw heads are all clocked correctly.

Some people also cut in around cover plates when painting. Amateur hour!

 

[Jim greengo]

I like the Lennox 6n1 and 9n1 versions myself,I've got a hole drawer in my tool box full of other screw drivers that never get used.
I do have a set of milwaukee mini screw drivers also,I just use them for thermostats mostly though.

 

[dchawk81]

Hold up there!

Obsessing?!? I can go on for hours why phenolic plate covers are far superior to the nylon ones that everyone wants now.

I mean mine are all solid gold so...

 

[Madjik Man]

Can't believe you guys put this much thought into screwdrivers….

Just look at the tool when deciding:

No factors: Does it have cheap, shiny chrome shaft. Does shank look like tumble polished wire stock that was pressed. Does it have molded lines in handles. Does it have some exotic gimmicky shape handle. Are tips pressed/forged instead of machined. Does it have cheap plastic handles like old Craftsman, that deteriorate and smell. Made in China

Yes factors: Machined tips. Shanks look to be machined/ground/finished instead of just pressed wire stock. Density of handles; Snap-on and Williams weight 1.5 times what the clones do. Made in USA or Europe. On flat tips, less taper or hollow ground. ACR ribs or bead blasting on phillips. Look at phillips shape and how sharp the corners are. How do the handles feel to YOUR hands.

Sounds like you put a lot of thought into screwdrivers also.

 

[IndyGarage]

What about the PB Swiss has you picking it up more than others? Which handle did you get?

I don't know what the name of the handle is. They are the rainbow colors. I have a set of about 6 flat ones and another set of 4 Phillips.

I like the handles and the blades on the PB Swiss, and I also like the rainbow colors. The handles have the perfect amount "grippiness" on them, so you can turn on them pretty hard. The blades seem to be a little harder and stiffer than others and the flat blades are ground at the tip so they are flat in a slot rather than angled. I also like the different colored handles. I can see by color which one I have.

I like the shape of the handle on Wera and Felo better than the PB Swiss, so the preference is slight. I just know if you have them all lined up (which is what I did) I will pick up the Swiss first - but if that one isn't available the others I mentioned are very nearly as good.

The Swiss are pretty spendy, so if you want a bargain - the Felo Ergonics are about 40-50% as much. Plus they have the advantage of mostly black handles which don't show dirt as bad. I think that's why pro mechanics like the hard handles so much - easier to clean.

If you want a super bargain in good Screwdrivers - the Vessel Famidora 8 set is like $13

 

[four.cycle]

^ Not so much "putting a lot of thought into it" as trying to do things properly. I guess it all depends on where you're from and where you've been. My wood shop teacher, Mr. Buranen, would have put you in the corner with a dunce cap if you put the wrong size screwdriver on a fastener.

For real.

 

[four.cycle]

Roger. Roger Buranen.

 

[F-22]

I read about US vs metric flatheads which is why I'm leaning towards US for flathead. Is there a difference between US and non US for Phillips outside of Vessel JIS? Aren't PB Swiss drivers "REAL Phillips tips"?

JIS no longer exists. Vessel and European brands will all work really well with practically any phillips head. Some US screwdrivers might be using the old phillips standard that may not fit well in some screws.

 

[AEAdam]

JIS no longer exists. Vessel and European brands will all work really well with practically any phillips head. Some US screwdrivers might be using the old phillips standard that may not fit well in some screws.

This is a messy post. JIS exists. It’s the Japanese Industry of Standards. Hardware made to specific JIS specs still exist. Are you saying the Phillips like JIS head standard is superceded? Or cancelled. That doesn’t make parts go away or mean designers won’t design using the obsolete std.

Here’s my point and it’s a question : If you weren’t a member of GJ, you may not know there are different stds for screw heads that look alike to the uninitiated. To someone not familiar, my kids say, they could look in my tool box and ask why I have so many identical sets of sockets. “Well”, I might say, “there are inch sized sockets here, and mm sized sockets here”.

After all these pages is what we’re saying you have inch sized screwdrivers and metric screwdrivers? Phillips and pozi, SAE and metric slotted? I know the metric slotted screwdrivers have thinner blades, so if you can only have one set…..thoughts? I think to some or many of you, that’s like using a “close enough” metric socket on a SAE fastener.

My knee jerk was start with a US spec set, if even just for a few common household use cases. But several of you have mentioned use cases where the US drivers are not ideal.

 

[KnurledNut]

I know the metric slotted screwdrivers have thinner blades, so if you can only have one set…..thoughts?

Depends if you’re opening standard or metric paint cans.

 

[Pinemarten]

JIS no longer exists.

A couple of nights ago, I heard a small sound in my shop. In the morning I discovered Ninjas had changed out the JIS hardware on my Honda.

 

[dchawk81]

A couple of nights ago, I heard a small sound in my shop. In the morning I discovered Ninjas had changed out the JIS hardware on my Honda.

@Metallitubby is a Ninja?

 

[Metallitubby]

@Metallitubby is a Ninja?

It's easy. You just need to do an online class and pay a fee. Anyone can be a ninja these days.

 

[dchawk81]

It's easy. You just need to do an online class and pay a fee. Anyone can be a ninja these days.

Are you an ordained ninja?

 

[Metallitubby]

Are you an ordained ninja?

The first rule of ninja-ship is not to talk about ninja-ship.

 

[velorider562]

The idea that a screwdriver is a seldom used tool blows me away. I use screwdrivers every time I am in the shop. It would be difficult to use a cordless driver to adjust idle mixture or speed on a Holley carb, and it doesn't make much sense to use on dash or trim screws and the like. I will say I just picked up one of the DeWalt 8v gyroscopic driver so that may change things some.

It's specific to the OP doing round the house repairs. For those I almost exclusively use the electric screwdriver. Ikea furniture, light fixtures, plugs etc.

 

[velorider562]

I never even considered using my Bosch 12v driver on switch/outlet connections or cover plates.

Everything time for the outlet, generally not the cover plates.

 

[liliysdad]

It's specific to the OP doing round the house repairs. For those I almost exclusively use the electric screwdriver. Ikea furniture, light fixtures, plugs etc.

Assembling furniture…sure…but why on earth would you use a cordless driver to remove the globe from a light fixture or the plate from an outlet?

 

[PugetDude]

It's easy. You just need to do an online class and pay a fee. Anyone can be a ninja these days.

If I just choose to identify as a ninja, what preferred pronouns should I choose?

 

[four.cycle]

^ good question... sounds like a really good way to crack a flimsy outlet or switch cover.

 

[bb29510]

past couple weeks i been buying kleins. amazon got better prices than box stores but due to kleins , lowes got the blue handle electrical screwdrivers (ideals) as cheap as $4

 

[Bubba Fett]

This is a messy post. JIS exists. It’s the Japanese Industry of Standards. Hardware made to specific JIS specs still exist. Are you saying the Phillips like JIS head standard is superceded? Or cancelled. That doesn’t make parts go away or mean designers won’t design using the obsolete std.

Here’s my point and it’s a question : If you weren’t a member of GJ, you may not know there are different stds for screw heads that look alike to the uninitiated. To someone not familiar, my kids say, they could look in my tool box and ask why I have so many identical sets of sockets. “Well”, I might say, “there are inch sized sockets here, and mm sized sockets here”.

After all these pages is what we’re saying you have inch sized screwdrivers and metric screwdrivers? Phillips and pozi, SAE and metric slotted? I know the metric slotted screwdrivers have thinner blades, so if you can only have one set…..thoughts? I think to some or many of you, that’s like using a “close enough” metric socket on a SAE fastener.

My knee jerk was start with a US spec set, if even just for a few common household use cases. But several of you have mentioned use cases where the US drivers are not ideal.

No one, including Vessel actually sells JIS screwdrivers anymore. The standard has been superseded by ISO-8764-1. Any screwdriver that complies with this standard should be compatible with JIS screws, and Phillips screws.

 

[LOW1]

Buy this: https://www.menards.com/main/tools/...7-piece/mf-3003/p-1841405562146249-c-9158.htm

 

[Metallitubby]

If I just choose to identify as a ninja, what preferred pronouns should I choose?

That is explained in the online course.

 

[MarvinBerry]

For a bone-basic acetate handle set, Craftsman is just fine. The new ones at Lowes are made in Taiwan, but they are better than what Western Forge was making. The tips actually fit. The cost is low, and they are easy to get.

Totally agree those new acetate Cman drivers are one of the few things they actually got right... basically 100% identical to the old USA side by side but yeah, maybe just finished a weebit nicer.

Not the bestest screwdrivers ever but sometimes you need something to poke prod abuse and maybe even actually turn a screw. They have their place.

 

[Dakotadadv8]

I agree if you can't afford the Snap on screwdrivers I would buy the Craftsman sets from Lowes.

 

[bobIN]

I'm gona throw klein out there. I use mine quite often and really enjoy them. Nicest screwdrivers I have ever had.

 

[Steve_P]

I agree if you can't afford the Williams screwdrivers I would buy the Craftsman sets from Lowes.

I fixed it. I can afford Snap On screwdrivers, but I can't justify the $ vs Wiha, Williams, or Vessel. Williams USA hard handles use some of the same blades as SO, so there's no loss of quality and durability.

 

[Dakotadadv8]

OP you may want a pick set and a pry bar set. Snap on pick set and a Milwaukee pry bar set from Home Depot. That way you don't have to use your screwdrivers as a pick or pry bar.

 

[F-22]

A couple of nights ago, I heard a small sound in my shop. In the morning I discovered Ninjas had changed out the JIS hardware on my Honda.

The screwdrivers. They no longer make screwdrivers because the JIS no longer specifies them.

 

[AEAdam]

The screwdrivers. They no longer make screwdrivers because the JIS no longer specifies them.

Can you guys just clarify?
1) The screws still exist, if even just on legacy vehicles/products, so I assume there is still a need for screwdrivers to drive the JIS Phillips. Can you buy a JIS compatible screwdriver?

2) Is the superseding standard essentially covering/replacing the old design such that the ISO spec drivers will work on older JIS screws? Did the ISO just consume the JIS std?

 

[bpwoodworking]

I’ve heard the nepros are JIS but not sure how to check.

 

[Bubba Fett]

Can you guys just clarify?
1) The screws still exist, if even just on legacy vehicles/products, so I assume there is still a need for screwdrivers to drive the JIS Phillips. Can you buy a JIS compatible screwdriver?

2) Is the superseding standard essentially covering/replacing the old design such that the ISO spec drivers will work on older JIS screws? Did the ISO just consume the JIS std?

Yes, Vessel screwdrivers are JIS compatible. But any screwdriver that conforms to the new ISO standard should also work just fine. I believe the point of the new ISO standard was to unify the Phillips, DIN and JIS standards into one standard.

 

[M6erfan]

I remember a while back reading somewhere that Sunflag (and maybe Anex) was one of the last holdouts for true JIS screwdrivers. But that was several years ago. Not sure if they changed to the new standard.

 

[BrandonV]

Yes, Vessel screwdrivers are JIS compatible. But any screwdriver that conforms to the new ISO standard should also work just fine. I believe the point of the new ISO standard was to unify the Phillips, DIN and JIS standards into one standard.

What I heard was that the Vessel screwdrivers are still closer to the JIS specification than others on the market. They all however meet the requirements of the ISO standard and are compatible on pretty much anything.

 

[KnurledNut]

Can you guys just clarify?
1) The screws still exist, if even just on legacy vehicles/products, so I assume there is still a need for screwdrivers to drive the JIS Phillips. Can you buy a JIS compatible screwdriver?

2) Is the superseding standard essentially covering/replacing the old design such that the ISO spec drivers will work on older JIS screws? Did the ISO just consume the JIS std?

Lots of useful banter in this thread:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum...s-din-5260-ph-iso-8763-1-screwdrivers.395037/

 

[Renegade1LI]

As a contractor screwdrivers are a disposable tool line a drill bit. Use it, wear it out and replace. They're really cheap enough to not worry about. IMO.

 

[F-22]

Can you guys just clarify?
1) The screws still exist, if even just on legacy vehicles/products, so I assume there is still a need for screwdrivers to drive the JIS Phillips. Can you buy a JIS compatible screwdriver?

2) Is the superseding standard essentially covering/replacing the old design such that the ISO spec drivers will work on older JIS screws? Did the ISO just consume the JIS std?

Yes new Vessel screwdrivers conform to ISO standards. ISO works for everything. If I remember right, the difference with ISO and JIS was some angles that don't really get in contact with the screw at all.

What I heard was that the Vessel screwdrivers are still closer to the JIS specification than others on the market. They all however meet the requirements of the ISO standard and are compatible on pretty much anything.

I read that on here and elsewhere - but always just speculation. It would be hard to measure it or to know what tolerances Vessel goes for in the factory. I do know my PB Swiss drivers seem to work just as well in JIS screws.