Screwdriver Durability Experiment- Anybody Up for It?

[dps]

I've got to agree with Merkava; the clear-handled screwdrivers from Sears are not the best. I'd like to replace my screwdrivers and have really enjoyed the various recommendations and opinions on the other brands available. I'm waiting for a screwdriver drawer tour by Moose, which is mostly Snap-on I believe, before joining him and Merkava in the S.O. screwdriver club. But it is an expensive club.

The consensus, if there is one, seems to be that no brand is better than Snap-on, but there may be many that are just as good, or nearly so but at a much lower cost. But all of it seems to be based on "feel" if I can use that word without meaning the type of handle it has, and not on objective fact.

So my questions are; would anyone else be willing to toss a few bucks into a pool to purchase some screwdrivers of several brands, and is there anyone who would have the interest in devising some tests that could be equally and objectively applied to all of the screwdrivers (a la Consumer Reports)?

I'd be glad to toss $10 (for example) in the mail or (better) via PayPal to a volunteer. If enough others thought it worthwhile to send a dollar or two, the volunteer could buy an agreed upon assortment for testing. I know there are at least a couple of tool company reps on the board that might be willing to sell some of their brand cheaper, or even donate some cosmetically damaged ones to the effort.

Worth any more discussion, OR, just a lame idea (won't be the first time)...?

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Seems a good idea to me. I'd throw $10 at a totally independant market review. Sounds a good idea to me.

And don't worry, you'll get your tour.

 

[wrenchr]

Seems a good idea to me. I'd throw $10 at a totally independant market review. Sounds a good idea to me.

And don't worry, you'll get your tour.

Then you need to vote!!!!

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Haha, didn't notice. Voted.

 

[wrenchr]

Haha, didn't notice. Voted.

 

[Danglerb]

Different people have different needs from a "good" screwdriver.

For $50 you could buy one screwdriver from each of half a dozen of the best manufacturers, and then a another $50 for one from Snapon, and just see how you like each one. Bondhaus, Wera, Wiha, Klein, and whatever else floats your boat.

I suspect its a mixed bag, the most durable, best anti cam out, best grip, best torque, best feel, best warranty, best price won't all go to the same one.

 

[Elroy]

Does Elroy get to use his ballpeen during the evaluation phase?

 

[wrenchr]

Does Elroy get to use his ballpeen during the evaluation phase?

Why not!!

 

[billymade]

I still think the Williams branded hard handle Snapon drivers are the best deal going!

 

[wrenchr]

Here is my screwdriver drawer.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Mine:

Also dps' favourite picture!

 

[wrenchr]

Very organized!!!!!!!!

 

[eschoendorff]

I would want a few more concrete details on the evaluation before I throw money at it. Otherwise, I'm interested...

 

[wantedabiggergarage]

I don't think it is a stupid idea (hence no vote), but I believe different screwdrivers for different things.

Klein's seem preferred for electrical. Craftsman's for around the house stuff. Snap~on/Williams for automotive (non modified), Sunex or Craftsman's for modifed (bend to a certain shape), inexpensive ratcheting magnetic for computer work, etc.............

For me, WAY too many variables to be one test. Sorry, no cash.

 

[dps]

Different people have different needs from a "good" screwdriver.

For $50 you could buy one screwdriver from each of half a dozen of the best manufacturers, and then a another $50 for one from Snapon, and just see how you like each one. Bondhaus, Wera, Wiha, Klein, and whatever else floats your boat.

I suspect its a mixed bag, the most durable, best anti cam out, best grip, best torque, best feel, best warranty, best price won't all go to the same one.

I would guess this is exactly right as far as multiple winners, and that everyone has their own idea on some of the features. For example, I know that I prefer the feel of the soft grip models, but also know how **** I am about clean tools and therefore will purchase hard handles regardless.

And warranties could be discussed, but at least they're pretty much a known. Using me as an example again, I have a great Sears close by, and a very close and regular Snap-on guy. Others may not have either, but maybe a good industrial tool supply, etc.

But a durability test would be great, anti-cam out, torque etc. could be listed on a table which would make it much easier to make one's own price-to-value comparison. I'll spend x if I have to, but would rather probably spend 1/2 x if I got 95% of the top scores for that price.

It would probably be pretty easy to come up with the first half dozen names, and then depending on money to either add more names or an additional blade style.

There would also be a possibility that if the tester also wanted to be a writer that they could have it published by a magazine and actually make a little money on the deal. Both Fine Homebuilding magazine and Fine Woodworking magazine regularly publish tool reviews, and there might be other mags out there as well that do it.

 

[fourfeathers]

What I would suggest, is that we raffle off the tools at the end of the test. A $5 gets you a ticket, AND is the seed money to buy the tools.

I tried to do this in a Socom 2 clan I used to be big in, but really didn't get much interest. I figured we could buy, review, and then raffle off games, controllers, etc.

I think that would work well here for tools.

 

[ToolGlutton]

Guys, do you want to send ConsumerReports an email to see if they are willing to do the test?

 

[dps]

I don't think it is a stupid idea (hence no vote), but I believe different screwdrivers for different things.

Klein's seem preferred for electrical. Craftsman's for around the house stuff. Snap~on/Williams for automotive (non modified), Sunex or Craftsman's for modifed (bend to a certain shape), inexpensive ratcheting magnetic for computer work, etc.............

For me, WAY too many variables to be one test. Sorry, no cash.

Good point on the variables. For this board being the Garage Journal, I would propose it be limited to mechanical use as the principal style. So if Klein is included, for example, to use their non-electrical model(s). Same for the other nice German makes. The electronics folks overlap here, as do gunsmiths and others, but all have their own discussion boards, too. I do, however, think that a good mechanics screwdriver is probably going to be best for woodworking and homeowner duties as well, but here is where it would be nice to have that quality vs. price available to make a choice. In my case the clear Craftsman's are going into the secondary pile that I use when I either don't care about the fastener or about the driver. (I wish they were going into a repair kit for a second home on the coast, but I'm not holding my breath there.)

 

[Merkava_4]

Some of my most favorites are the MAC Comfort Grip drivers like wrenchr has in his drawer. Another real nice screwdriver are the ones made by PROTO in England; I only have one of those with the BlackHawk label on it though.

The old Craftsman Industrial's with the black shanks and black handles are very nice, but of course they're no longer in production; I wish I had bought more of them before they were gone for good.

 

[dps]

What I would suggest, is that we raffle off the tools at the end of the test. A $5 gets you a ticket, AND is the seed money to buy the tools.

I tried to do this in a Socom 2 clan I used to be big in, but really didn't get much interest. I figured we could buy, review, and then raffle off games, controllers, etc.

I think that would work well here for tools.

A great idea, but I'm kinda thinking no one would want them when they were through. Maybe it's just me, but I'm hoping there would be some ultimate tests such as torque until twisted or something that would kill their usefulness.

Don't know how to multiple quote, but I don't think Consumer's would do it as they seem to limit their tool reports to cordless drills and drivers for the real average homeowner type.

 

[dps]

Oh man, Merkava, now I'm drooling in stereo. Between yours and Moose's drawers I'm in heaven! Not to get off the subject, how would you compare your S.O's with your MAC's?

 

[Merkava_4]

The two main things I look for in a screwdriver are (1) How well does it fit the fastener? And (2) how comfortable is the handle?

A durable screwdriver is one that's not brittle; I've never encountered that problem, but I've heard other guys complain about brittleness.

I'm thinking if the screwdriver fits the screw head the way it should, that will cut down on most of the wear right there.

 

[Merkava_4]

Not to get off the subject, how would you compare your S.O's with your MAC's?

That's damn near a toss up; they're both very good. The bolsters on the SOs are better machined and more cosmetically pleasing that the MAC bolsters, but they both hold a wrench just fine.

The tips seem to both fit very well between the two makes. One of the MAC straight slots has a slightly thinner blade at .042" compared to the SO at .047" of the same size screwdriver.

 

[wantedabiggergarage]

I do, however, think that a good mechanics screwdriver is probably going to be best for woodworking and homeowner duties as well,

Kinda depends on both how WELL you clean your tools (don't want oil and grease soaking into some high dollar veneer, that you had to screw a pull through, and whether or not, your using Phillips, Robertson, Torx, or whatever type of screws now days. (Robertson has made a BIG dent in the woodworking field. Try to find that readily available in Snap~on or cars)
Homeowner duties, to me, are very varied and don't have as much torque normally as automotive. (plus those are the ones that can be loaners).

 

[wrenchr]

A plus for me is the Mac screwdriver, when a warranty issue arrise's. My mac dealer gives me a new one and snap on just replace's the shank.

 

[gotmud13613]

I just got a new 8 pc Snap-On screwdriver set, The first one I used broke stubby one at that, on a frickin trim screw

Had to bring out the Crapsman to finish the job

 

[ToolGlutton]

For your (1), Snap on #1 Phillips screwdriver is the worst. It's been filed too much.

The two main things I look for in a screwdriver are (1) How well does it fit the fastener? And (2) how comfortable is the handle?

A durable screwdriver is one that's not brittle; I've never encountered that problem, but I've heard other guys complain about brittleness.

I'm thinking if the screwdriver fits the screw head the way it should, that will cut down on most of the wear right there.

 

[fourfeathers]

http://www.mysteriesofcanada.com/Ontario/robertson_screws.htm
In case somebody is afraid to ask, Robertson is commonly known as square drive.

 

[Merkava_4]

I don't have to tell you guys to stay away from screwdriver tips that have been chromed right? That's a tell tale sign of cheap chit.

 

[Danglerb]

All the woodworking guys I know either use a Yankee screwdriver or a power tool with a bit. You have to be nuts to screw in as many screws as most wood projects require by hand.

Screwdriver preference, tell the truth, you reach in a "friends" tool box to grab your favorite Snapon and accidentally pick up a HF 99 cent set screwdriver, but don't notice until your back under the car, and it is the right type and size, do you go back and get the Snapon?

 

[MAD]

I just got a new 8 pc Snap-On screwdriver set, The first one I used broke stubby one at that, on a frickin trim screw

Had to bring out the Crapsman to finish the job

Well I guess you can't complain that the tip did not have a solid grip in the screw head.

I have had a couple of Snap-on screwdrivers "Snap-off" as well. I think this is an occasional consequence of how hard the metal is tempered. They tips generally stay good for a long time though.

 

[MAD]

The old Craftsman Industrial's with the black shanks and black handles are very nice, but of course they're no longer in production; I wish I had bought more of them before they were gone for good.

I have those and they have been great. All except the P1 and smaller Phillips drivers are still in great shape after many years of hard use. I believe the reason the small Phillips wore out is because most Craftsman Phillips tips #1 and smaller are made with a very pointy profile that does not fit some screws as well as Phillips tips that are flatter at the tip. Poor fit then causes the tip to wear out when it slips. I can only guess that they make them pointy this way in order to fit a wider range of screws. I have noticed that they work well in some screws but fit sloppy in others. I have started dressing some of the tips of the small Craftsman Phillips screwdrivers a little flatter and the fit is often greatly improved. Has anyone else noticed this? Craftsman screwdriver haters, is it the smaller Phillips sizes that have caused the most frustration for you? I am just wondering if this recent observation of mine is valid or if the smell from the old craftsman plastic screwdriver handles has altered my brain chemistry.

 

[jay50]

Well I guess you can't complain that the tip did not have a solid grip in the screw head.

I have had a couple of Snap-on screwdrivers "Snap-off" as well. I think this is an occasional consequence of how hard the metal is tempered. They tips generally stay good for a long time though.

Just get a set of Cman Pros... they will get the job done..

 

[eschoendorff]

Guys, do you want to send ConsumerReports an email to see if they are willing to do the test?

Hell no! Consumer Reports is the last group I want testing a tool. I don't buy into their **** one little bit.

 

[MAD]

Hell no! Consumer Reports is the last group I want testing a tool. I don't buy into their **** one little bit.

The Consumer reports testing staff are experts in testing products. They are often not experts on the products that they test however, and can completely miss the boat sometimes. I would be interested in what C.R. had to say about screwdrivers but I would not just accept it as gospel.

 

[dps]

The Consumer reports testing staff are experts in testing products. They are often not experts on the products that they test however, and can completely miss the boat sometimes. I would be interested in what C.R. had to say about screwdrivers but I would not just accept it as gospel.

I think this is exactly right. When I want a washing machine that works effectively and has a low rate of repair, I go with their picks. For something like a car, their stats are good, but not necessarily their reports on the "feel" of the thing. Same for the "sound" of a loudspeaker.

So although I don't believe they would test screwdrivers, I'd absolutely trust their methods for accuracy, but again, not the feel, or balance, etc. But for screwdrivers, I'd really wouldn't need that part of their assessment.

 

[logical]

I've never really been let down by any of the better brands and doubt I'll ever have the need to buy another screwdriver in this lifetime...but I will suggest that Wera and Wiha are my vote for best bang for the buck (The ACO's are Anti-Cam Out, not ACO hardware).

 

[dxdexter]

One of the tests should be to test all the slot screwdrivers to see which is the best chisel/hubcap remover/prybar because I'm fairly certain that's the majority of use they see and is about all they are good for.

You should also test Phillips vs Robertson (SCRULOX) because there is absolutely no comparison in my opinion. Robertson is so vastly superior in all ways except maybe some prefer the appearance of Phillips screws.

I have had no Snap-on screwdrivers break, but have had one slot Klein break while actually using it to turn a screw with very low torque. it was replaced at Home depot no questions asked.

 

[wch]

I pulled out a bunch of #2 Phillips screwdrivers today and tested how much torque it took for each to cam out of the head of a new drywall screw. This is very subjective, but from best to worst:
- Lots of torque: Klein 5-1 screwdriver, DeWalt bit, Ace Pro screwdriver
- Moderate torque: Ace screwdriver (looks very worn)
- Low torque: Craftsman clear handle screwdriver

Everyone here says the Craftsmans ****, but I was surprised at just how bad it was. I think that having quantified tests would be useful for someone like me who hasn't tried all the fancy screwdrivers out there. I didn't believe that Craftsman was so bad until I tested it myself. I don't disbelieve it when someone says "Craftsman screwdrivers are bad," or "Snap-on is so much better," but having numbers would really help because it's a much more objective measure.

I got thinking about how to set up a testing rig. It's pretty crude and could use some improvements, but I thought I'd share anyway to see if maybe it'll inspire someone else to make something better.

In the first picture, you can see how to put a set amount of downward force on the screwdriver. I used a Craftsman drill guide to make sure the pressure on the screwdriver goes straight down. Instead of my hand pushing down on it, there should be a set weight. Also, the springs should be removed from it (I was too lazy to actually do that). The clamp on the screwdriver handle is used to prevent it from turning -- it hits the support post when you turn the screwdriver.

The second picture is actually from an earlier attempt at this, before I realized that the drill guide didn't go high enough to fit most screwdrivers. The screw is a machine screw with a washer on the top side and two nuts locked against each other on the bottom. (I should have used a longer screw, but this is all I could find.) The beam-style torque wrench goes on the lower nut and you turn it and measure when the screwdriver cams out.


A couple notes:

• Even when you're not pushing against the springs of the drill guide, the thing has a fair bit of friction, so it might be better to just dispense with the drill guide and stick a weight right on top of the screwdriver, using the hole in the upper piece of wood to keep it vertical.
• It's hard to get a lot of torque on the nut, so probably a bigger screw and nut should be used.
• You would need a more sensitive torque wrench than the one I have here.

You could use a similar rig to test durability, perhaps camming out the screwdriver a fixed number of times with a fixed weight, then test cam-out torque with a new screw.

 

[eschoendorff]

The Consumer reports testing staff are experts in testing products. They are often not experts on the products that they test however, and can completely miss the boat sometimes. I would be interested in what C.R. had to say about screwdrivers but I would not just accept it as gospel.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. I think Consumer Reports testing staff are experts in selling magazines.

Biggest bunch of wind bags ever.