Screwdriver vs. screw bits. Are premium screwdriver sets worth it?

[theoldwizard1]

The most important thing about screwdrivers is do they fit you hand comfortably. How well they grip the screw is a close second.

While I have a couple of screwdriver/bit sets I rarely use them. Mostly when I need a magnetic tip or something other than slotted or Phillips. (I do have a few individual Weha Torx < T10. They are great !)

Personally I find Craftsman screwdriver more than adequate for my needs. With Christmas coming up, you can get a nice set for $15-$25. I like the set that has longer screwdrivers.

 

[Outlawmws]

Cheap screw drivers will often not fit as mentioned, but worse, they are often soft and wear off round or bend. they are all too often (at least for flat blades) not ground properly, just forged into a taper and the end ground flat (Maybe)

Bits are often great where they will fit, which is most places, but I often have deep access holes that a bit driver will not go into.

If you want the best, you buy gunsmiths or cabinet makers grade drivers. Hollow ground and in sizes to actually fit the slot, and screws should nearly stay on just by sticking it on the blade. Most gunsmiths will grind their blades to a perfect fit into the slot.

The old Craftsman WF drivers were decent quality for the cost. SWMBO bought me a new set one Christmas (I needed a couple of replacements and it was about as cheap...), and WF had "lost the process" and the buggers would bend even (especially) the big 5/16 stubby... T=this was more than a decade ago and it soured me on Craftsman drivers. Hopefully they solved the issue.

98% of the time people get frustrated with screws or any drive type, its not the screws nearly so much as a poor fitting or worn off driver...

 

[Outlawmws]

I have not seen any evidence of this yet. In fact look at the holiday displays of th screwdrivers. The cardboard displays in the middle of the department. The lower right corner has a made in USA logo on it. If they were mixing in china sets the would have never put made in USA on the display it self. Now that's not to say its not going to happen.

Why not? to the people at Sears stocking shelf (not to mention the execs making the chicom buy decisions) it's just a part no...

 

[mrjaw14]

depends on:
1. Will it be used as a regular screw driver?
2. Is it going in your box, or in a mobile tool kit?
3. Do you need to drive the fastener with a ratchet?

You need a decent set of drivers for regular screwdriver use. However, for a lightweight or vehicle tool kit a bit driver and assortment of bits will take up much less space and be lighter. Also I buy bits for bit sockets. I have 1/4" 3/8" and 1/2" sockets that take hex bits. That way I can just swap bits cheaply instead of dealing with individual bit sockets. I think that's the way to go if you need a screwdriver bit on a ratchet. Also a hex bit ratchet can be super low profile as already mentioned.

 

[GoodEnough]

My father, on the other hand, worked on the principle that any screwdriver that came close to fitting the screw was good enough. I'd buy him good sets of Stanleys, and yet everytime I'd see him using a screwdriver, it'd be some piece of junk with a really soft blade and a badly moulded and fragile transparent hard plastic handle. The good Stanleys were still in their packaging as he considered them too good to use.

Was he a hoarder?
Did he have OCD?
Did he die with a ton of money in the bank?

 

[Kracin]

Was he a hoarder?
Did he have OCD?
Did he die with a ton of money in the bank?

he probably loved your screen name.....

 

[GoodEnough]

Lots of talk here about the bit fitting the screw Philips perfectly.
I never gave this much thought, but is there some rule of thumb in terms of how to know if a screwdriver fits the screw perfectly? Sometimes it's not easy to tell just how seated the screwdriver is in teh screw head. Should there be zero lateral play (sort of like when a socket perfectly fits a bolt head?)

 

[James_B]

Was he a hoarder?
Did he have OCD?
Did he die with a ton of money in the bank?

Nah. Just hadn't come up with a situation that he considered warranted opening up the box of new screwdrivers.

He's just turned 87, and most of his tools date from the 1950s (or earlier) ... the band saw and table saw, currently in his garage, were used to build his first house in the early 1950s. His premium quality 50s vintage socket sets in SAE and Whitworth, that were probably hand-me-downs from his father, have been used on 2 engine rebuilds that I'm aware of (and probably more). He still has one of those "Yankee Brand" push screwdrivers amongst his tools. His policy used to be to buy the best tools he could afford, and try to keep them running forever.

Other than the cheap screwdrivers and pliers that he seemed to delight in buying at dollar stores, the only tools he had that were less than 25 years old were ones I had given him.

 

[CWP1616L]

is there some rule of thumb in terms of how to know if a screwdriver fits the screw perfectly?

If you insert the Phillips tip and it wiggles side to side, you either got the wrong size screwdriver or your screwdriver is a POS.

 

[Chuck122]

ever since I got a snap on ratcheting screwdriver, I hardly ever use regular ones. obviously they are sometimes necessary when there is no room for the ratcheting.
if you use quality bits you will get very good results. if not... you won't

 

[GoodEnough]

I think my Craftsman hex hit handle is good enough.
That hex bit ratcheting tool pictured above is also another method.

I might invest in some additional screwdriver bits.
Can you guys post some links to a decent set?

 

[nicksnothereman]

Lots of talk here about the bit fitting the screw Philips perfectly.
I never gave this much thought, but is there some rule of thumb in terms of how to know if a screwdriver fits the screw perfectly? Sometimes it's not easy to tell just how seated the screwdriver is in teh screw head. Should there be zero lateral play (sort of like when a socket perfectly fits a bolt head?)

If your "ill fitting" head or bit strips the fastener it was a s&it fastener in the first place, anything is gonna strip it.

The answer is: it don't matter if it's for your own stuff. Now if you're making cabinets for someone else for money then sure you don't want to strip or scuff the fasteners. But if you're that neurotic about backside screws on replacement knobs for your own cabinets (or something similar for the household) then you should probably just pay someone else to do it.

It's like: Using a 20 dollar screwdriver vs. a dollar screwdriver on a 5 cent screw. It doesn't really matter which you use, if the fastener is well made neither screwdriver should strip it, if it's poorly made both will probably strip it.

 

[Adam.C]

Most people won't have any issues with "disposable" quality drivers in just about everything including hex keys. Why? Because you don't use them too much and don't pay too much so it doesn't matter if they snap in half.

I respectfully disagree with the logic here. Unlike a professional, when I am working on my primary driver, there is no safety net, no work mate to borrow a tool from, etc. If I cam out a screw, break a socket, or round a bolt head, I'm stuffed. May need to take a sick day and still may not be able to complete my repair. Perhaps because my skills are not the best, and I don't have specialty tools, I rely heavily on the quality of my basic hand tools.

Ditto for road side tool kits. If you are stranded by the side of the road, that's the last time you want to have cheap tools. I want my BEST tools in my emergency kit. I prefer locking extensions in the roadside kit- I've had to use these tools before and you want stuff that will work in low light, difficult conditions.

In my experience, it is true that worn or poor quality screwdrivers can cam out screw heads more readily than better stuff. My advice is, before you ask whether an expensive screwdriver is worth it, ask yourself what the fix is of a rounded screw head. If the repair for that is no problem, then I guess cheap screwdrivers are fine. For me, it's either drill and extract or vise grip the head, or saw a slot into the head, depending on what I have room for.

By this logic, I have the best allens, torx, screwdrivers, and sockets I can afford.

P.S. An old aircraft mechanic showed me a trick for dealing with worn phillips recesses. He spackled the recess flush with dry comet cleanser. That filled in the worn places just enough to give him a good bite.

 

[rusjack]

P.S. An old aircraft mechanic showed me a trick for dealing with worn phillips recesses. He spackled the recess flush with dry comet cleanser. That filled in the worn places just enough to give him a good bite.

That seems like it'd work - but I end up using valve grinding compound. Once you see the screw isn't going to break free and you've damage the head a bit - use a brand new bit, some grinding compound and you're golden.

 

[kbeefy]

That seems like it'd work - but I end up using valve grinding compound. Once you see the screw isn't going to break free and you've damage the head a bit - use a brand new bit, some grinding compound and you're golden.

I use valve grind compound quite a bit. with new bits.

 

[Adam.C]

If your "ill fitting" head or bit strips the fastener it was a s&it fastener in the first place, anything is gonna strip it.

...Using a 20 dollar screwdriver vs. a dollar screwdriver on a 5 cent screw. It doesn't really matter which you use, if the fastener is well made neither screwdriver should strip it, if it's poorly made both will probably strip it.

Wow. Respectfully disagree again. Poor quality screwdrivers with soft, ill-shaped or worn tips cam out screws, destroying their heads where good ones won't. It's a simple engineering issue- lots of contact inside the recess reduces stress, preventing yielding that causes cam out. You want hard, crisp bits, properly shaped and sized (I'm including screwdrivers, torx, hex, etc)

My experience is the opposite of that stated above. If you are working on a car that has excellent hardware, any screwdriver will work. If you are working on a car that is older, corroded, used soft steels, only the best tools will be helpful. I worked on a 69 Camaro 20 years ago and we rounded off just about every fastener we tried to remove. It was rusty and the steel seemed of poor quality. Mid 80's VWs and Porsches had beautiful clean cad plated high grade bolts. Very easy to work on.

For cabinetry, you want your best screwdriver for brass screws for the reasons stated above.

Last word from me- I think life is too short for cheap tools. The amount of money you can save doing just one repair will usually justify Snap on prices. That said, I don't believe it is always the case that inexpensive or Chinese tools are of low quality. I do believe that Snap On generally is of good quality however.

 

[GoodEnough]

Adam,
But, how will a soft bit cam a screw out? This makes no sense.
A hard bit is more likely to cam out a screw, not a soft bit.

I can see how ill-fitting bits (worn out) will cam out a screw, b/c of less contact area.

 

[sdguy55]

Last word from me- I think life is too short for cheap tools. The amount of money you can save doing just one repair will usually justify Snap on prices. That said, I don't believe it is always the case that inexpensive or Chinese tools are of low quality. I do believe that Snap On generally is of good quality however.

I dont think 'just one repair' justifys the price on SOME of the snap on stuff when you can get a comparable tool of 'lesser' quality.

Example. I think snap-ons 3/4 drive sockets are ridiculously priced. Same with the wrenches above 1". Some of you guys never run into stuff that requires stuff that big but i do all the time. Now with that being said when i started looking around for what i wanted i immediately ruled out Snap-on. I went ahead and bought a pittsburgh set. And found that i HATED the ratchet and the breaker bar. So i went ahead and bought Snap-on ratchet and breaker bar set. Im still MILES ahead if i had bought all snap on to begin with and i found out what i dont like. And if i finally break a socket, which i havent in the year of using it extensively, i will buy that specific socket from a better company thinking that 'i must use it quite a bit, so buy a little bit better one'

 

[chevydyl]

i wouldnt use anything but my snap on screwdrivers that feature AntiCam-outRibs (ACR)
some times they grip the screw so well you have to tap it to get it out, and under heavy torque the cheapos ive had them twist the tip of the bit right off, ill never buy or use the cheapos again.....snappy green handles for me

 

[Adam.C]

Adam,
But, how will a soft bit cam a screw out? This makes no sense.
A hard bit is more likely to cam out a screw, not a soft bit.

I can see how ill-fitting bits (worn out) will cam out a screw, b/c of less contact area.

You got it- that's exactly what I'm saying. Soft bits wear out and deform quickly. Worn bits cam out more easily than those with good sharp corners.

Invariably, we drive the fasteners with the extremities of our screwdrivers. If those ends are worn, they cam out.

FWIW, I really liked my black Craftsman Pro screwdrivers. I used them for years. Only things I didn't like about them were:
1) They were all black and I had trouble finding them in black car interiors, engine bays, etc
2) They had square shanks. I prefer the snap on style that has a hex by the handle, but the rest of the shank is smooth round chrome. I like to hold the screwdriver shank, while I twist the handle.

 

[Adam.C]

I dont think 'just one repair' justifys the price on SOME of the snap on stuff when you can get a comparable tool of 'lesser' quality.

I agree. Sorry if I sounded obtuse.

A snap on #2 phillips is what? $20? That's a lot for a screwdriver, but I only need one or two of these. If I do a brake job and need a #3 Phillips to get the disks off, I think a snap-on #3 phillips (approx $25?) is justifiable. Had I purchased a lesser screwdriver and the screw cammed out, I'd be screwed- faced with drilling the fastsner out, then replacing the fastener (where do you get some wired metric csunk screw on a Sunday afternoon?

For home mechanics, many times the alternative to a rounded screw or bolt is not good. What's that worth?

 

[GoodEnough]

i wouldnt use anything but my snap on screwdrivers that feature AntiCam-outRibs (ACR)
some times they grip the screw so well you have to tap it to get it out, and under heavy torque the cheapos ive had them twist the tip of the bit right off, ill never buy or use the cheapos again.....snappy green handles for me

I am thinking I want to just buy some high quality bits. Maybe ones with the ACR feature. I want new bits to use with my Craftsman hex bit handle.

Anyone got a link to a good basic set? I think that's where the value is, and not in the handle.
Anything in here?
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...r+bit+set&rh=n:16310091,k:screwdriver+bit+set

 

[GoodEnough]

Adam, ok, so a soft driver tip is more likely to wear down and become ill-fitting. That makes sense. In fact, I bet my old 1980s screwdrivers are worn out, but my 2010 Craftsman bits are probably still fine. But, I think I want to invest in a couple of high quality Phillips hex bits anyways

 

[rusjack]

I use Pan American ones at work - a range of #2 Phillips, 2X Phillips, ACR bits and some others. I know you can grab some packs of 25 on there (rather than bulk packs of 1000+ bits) but you'd be set for ages.

Ive snapped some bits before rounding out fastener heads on some really over torqued screws, too. I'd rather break a bit than screwdriver, or drill out an extract a hard to reach screw.

http://www.panamericantool.com/screw-driver-bits.html

 

[jjjrmx5]

I am thinking I want to just buy some high quality bits. Maybe ones with the ACR feature. I want new bits to use with my Craftsman hex bit handle.

Anyone got a link to a good basic set? I think that's where the value is, and not in the handle.

Std. bits?

Best bang for the buck for hand/non-impact bit drivers?
Wiha.
Or at least to me.

Used on a production floor by 75+ workers removing and resintalling 100's of screws a day each.

High quality but not so expensive as to break the bank. As a wear item it's all a balance.

Most screw heads are softer than the higher quality bits so the fastener cams out/goes first.
Lesser quality bits and drivers make that equation a little foggier.

Spend shop or production time fixing or removing/replacing buggered screws due to a ****** driver or bit and you learn fast. Or are at least looking for good tools to use or a new job.

 

[archirelic]

I opt for both premium screwdrivers and premium bits + a bit driver.

I used to work with and always had cheap screwdrivers...never gave much thought that there could be something a little nicer and better. Always cursing under my breath with my cheaper screwdrivers and bits.

After finding Garage Journal and sourcing out a quality set [which then turned into quality sets, haha] I noticed a very distinct difference between what I had been using all the past years and what I had just taken possession of.

No more cursing, no more messed up fasteners, no more messed up screwdrivers constantly needing replacing, no more messed up bits that keep needing replacing, etc. etc.

Spend a little more money to save a little more money in the long run...especially when time = money.

I've got Wera, Wiha, Felo, and Witte...and some chinese-made Channellock haha.

 

[GoodEnough]

I don't use a screwdriver anywhere often enough to wear out a bit.
More like using it a few times a month on a few screws.
But, it the new bits aren't a mint, I'll just get the good stuff.
Plus, I might get more than the 3 sizes I have now, for a better fit.

 

[GoodEnough]

How about one of these?

Dewalt for $15
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0037774JI/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Wera for $38
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Y8Y31K/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[mrjaw14]

I've been looking for a good set of ACR bits, what's a decent set? Hard to find locally, almost have to buy online.

 

[nanofrog]

I don't use a screwdriver anywhere often enough to wear out a bit.

FWIW, it only takes one time.

 

[1950mercury]

This must be a PREMIUM SET

http://m.ebay.com/itm/121207245188?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1

 

[GoodEnough]

This must be a PREMIUM SET

http://m.ebay.com/itm/121207245188?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1

What kind of fool pays that?
That thing was selling for $25 a few years ago,..
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26789

 

[GoodEnough]

Well, it turns out that I had this in the bottom of my toolbox. I think from the early 2000's. I will just use these when I encounter a screw, as there are many bits to ensure a proper fitment.

http://www.blackanddecker.com/accessories/71-930.aspx

 

[ajchien]

I'm a bit late to the thread.

I have no idea what your requirements for screwdrivers are. I think only you know for sure. But nothing has to be written in stone. Whatever you have now will probably suit you fine, and if you wear them out or break them then you can either buy the same, buy cheaper, or buy more expensive. Everybody makes their own choices. And if you screw up and strip a few heads, hey, good excuse to buy yourself a screw-out set.

I personally have all sorts of screwdrivers. Got them expensive ones, and those freebie ones. I've got lots of bits from top tier names to no name bulk china makes. Also got my share of socket bits.

I find that I tend to use bits when either using an cordless impact driver, or when traveling with a purpose with a bit holder and few bits. When space is tight or when you need a little more torque, the socket drivers on a stubby ratchet are nice. when there's a recessed hole, bit drivers sometimes don't fit and I need a actual screwdriver.

I've gradually moved from cheap to more expensive. I find that cheap bits have variable QC. Some of them last 100 screws in hardwood. Other, don't make it through a single screw. So for example ... maybe in a pack of 10 ... 2 don't work at all, 4 last for 5 screws, 4 last for 20 screws, and 2 last for a 100 screws. Whereas in a more well respected brand, in a pack of 10, they all last around 80-120 screws except for one golden bit which somehow seems to last forever. (of note, I haven't really ever counted the number of screws until a bit has worn out for me. I'm simply completely guessing)

As for actual screwdrivers, my mind tells me that I should buy the best that give me an easy warranty that includes wear. That should mean craftsman pro for me. Except that I already have 4 P2 craftsman regulars around - and when one of them starts to wear/cam out, I put it aside for exchange. Rotating 4 around, i might wear out 1.5 a year. my nicest set is the Vessel Megadora 900 series, which I try to reserve for JIS screws.

 

[The Muffin Man]

For me and what I do for a living, having a set of high end premium screwdrivers are a necessity. When dealing with hardware that hasn't been taken apart ever since it was on the assembly line 20-30 years you'll thank yourself for spending the extra money. Many factories that produce screw heads and such don't always have the tightest tolerances, and can vary significantly from another factories' same screw. While these tolerances seem very minute, when you throw in corrosion, and other mitigating factors, they become a huge headache when you can remove them with a lower quality screwdriver.

There are three things to look into a screwdriver when I'm deciding to buy a new set. Ergonomics, precision, and durability. Ergonomics is very important because have the right screwdriver that is comfortable for your hands will help you apply the most torque and with the least amount of fatigue to your hands. Ergonomics is probably the most important to me because there are many screwdrivers out there that are very durable and precise so finding the set that fits my hands perfectly is the hardest. Percision is obviously important because without such you would strip or destroy more fasteners than you actually remove successfully. Just reading reviews of screwdriver brands from the gentlemen here will point you in the right direction. Durability is also pretty self explanatory, what good is a precise screwdriver if it just gets worn out by the 100th screw? Again reviews from people who use their screwdrivers day in and day out around here will point you in the right direction.

The screwdriver is one of the cheapest priced tool in the average person's tool box, yet it is one of the most used tool as well. Almost if not everyone who has bought a premium screwdriver set doesn't regret doing so. I have yet to hear someone complain about buying their Snap-On screwdriver

Also, its a good idea to have two sets of nice quality screwdrivers that are of a different brand. The reason being is many hardware production places have different tolerances, as do different screwdriver brands too. So what happens is that some screws will fit one brand's screwdriver better than another. Its not a necessity for the average DIY or homeowner, but people who use there tools everyday usually do.

As a side note, I figured I might as well tell what screwdrivers have met my strict standards ... (in no particular order)

Facom, Felo, Snap-On, Toptul, and Wera. Vessel for JIS