Screwdrivers - interchangeable blades vs. long hex bits

[YesIHaveAHammer]

I was after for this sort of thing recently, so I had a look at the interchangeable blade style - really just for the sake of something different. But after looking at a couple of options and reading this thread and this one, I could see mostly only disadvantages compared to long hex bits. Ruled out short ones in a bit holder for access reasons.

Why choose these over long (~90mm) standard hex bits?

• Proprietary system - the root cause of some of the other points below
• Range of blades available - not really an issue except for obscure stuff
• Availability of blades at your preferred supplier, locally, and generally
• Expense of blades due to low volumes and no competition
• Locking in the handle not as secure
• Blade shafts the same diameter in all sizes
• Blades are twice as long for storage, and don't fit in normal bit cases
• Blades can't be used with other driving tools (e.g. T-handle) or accessories (e.g. extensions), so if you want those you need to buy proprietary ones (if they are even available in your chosen system). The handles can be used with hex bits using a bit holder blade.

The good

• Less bit wobble than hex ones, unless your hex bit holder is a Wiha CentroFix
• Hardened (black) tips, although can't see why long hex bits couldn't have them too
• Cheap extra handles - about half the price of a hex bit holder handle
• Some coolness factor or je ne sais quoi

 

[u2slow]

I would defer to the hex drive type. More universal.

I keep a Picquic in my pocket. Rolgear makes a smooth ratcheting type.

 

[JradM]

I would defer to the hex drive type. More universal.

I keep a Picquic in my pocket. Rolgear makes a smooth ratcheting type.

Excellent, Canadian-made options there.

If you want the $200 solution to a $20 problem, then I heartily recommend the Felo Smart screwdriver set.

 

[JerseyBoatBuilder]

I haven't used a regular screw driver in years other than using them as a prying tool. But I am using the 1/4 drive removable shanks and blades that Snap On and Gear Wrench made. If I ever encountered a recessed Torx fastener that I couldn't reach with what I have I would probably invest in one of those systems.

 

[Dave455]

You seek the answer to one of the fundamental questions of mobile working, and there probably is no one right answer.

It’s worth considering, for a moment, why you would want either of these options instead of regular hex bits. Normally it’s because you are working on recessed screws, and a normal bit driver might not fit, or because you don’t want to risk losing small bits. Both are valid.

There are some advantages to using the interchangeable shank driver. One is that they generally lock very positively. Certainly the PB Swiss. This makes them much nicer to use.

Secondly, the blades are optimised for hand use (i.e. hard) so with repetitive use will generally last longer than an impact bit.

Another, again the case of PB Swiss, is that the whole combination is of very high quality and nicely proportioned.

I regularly use these with 2.5mm ball hex tips, which otherwise come with very small handles.


The length of the blades doesn’t make much difference to bulk, and the PB roll up cases are very nice. Overall they are practical tools if you‘re doing mobile service work and working out of a small case.


Also bear in mind that the bigger interchangeable blade systems (such as PB 225 series) are much more hefty than any 1/4” hex tool. These will fit screws with 1/2” slots for example, which is way beyond what a 1/4” hex bit will handle.


Historically, these tools predate the long 1/4” hex bits, as the latter only became common with the advent of impact drivers, so that might be a factor.

The use of long hex bits with an additional handle does give some advantages.

Yes, they are the most compact option. It gives you a spare set of bits to use in your Impact driver, and you have a lot of options available - in this case Stainless Steel bits.


The downsides are that these bits never seem to lock as positively in the handle as they might. A little frustrating.

I also struggle to find a handle I like. The Wera handle shown is nowhere near the quality of the PB 225 handles, for example. The Wera bits are good, the handle less so.

If you can find a good handle, then you have the option of using PB E series bits, which are probably the best option bit wise.


PB used to offer long C series bits, optimised for hand use, so these have been another option, but not sure they are currently listed.


The reversible blade drivers are, I think, another distinct option. Potentially half the number of blades. As well as Wera, Both Wiha and Felo offer these, and I will echo JradM in favouring the Felo.

I bought the set below, to be carried more than used, generally when doing electrical work with other tools, so that I know I always have one of every driver type if needed.


In practice I find myself carrying the Wera set above in preference, as it’s so much less bulk.

 

[glenng]

I also struggle to find a handle I like. The Wera handle shown is nowhere near the quality of the PB 225 handles, for example. The Wera bits are good, the handle less so.

If you can find a good handle, then you have the option of using PB E series bits, which are probably the best option bit wise.

Love your selection of tools!

As mentioned in the OP, the Wiha Centrofix is the best locking bit handle for 1/4" hex bits. They have 2 sizes, the normal soft grip and then the ESD soft grip. The ESD soft grip is smaller. They lock the bits with absolutely no wobble.

Regular Centrofix handle:

Wiha 387 CentroFix 1/4'', (3871403501) - Amazon.com

Wiha 387 CentroFix 1/4'', (3871403501) - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

ESD Centrofix handle:

ESD Safe Quick Release Bit Holder - Appliance Replacement Parts - Amazon.com

ESD Safe Quick Release Bit Holder - Appliance Replacement Parts - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

I only have the shank drive style in precision Wiha handles, and I have 2 kinds. I have the regular System 4 that just slides into the handle and then I have the System 4 Drive-Loc. The Drive-Loc is the premium option, as it lets you adjust the length of the shank you want exposed, but I found it to have some side-to-side wobble. The regular System 4 that slides into the handle have no wobble.

Being that the Drive-Loc had wobble, it deterred me from getting into the larger System 6 Drive-Loc system.

For 1/4" hex shank, I have the 2 Wiha Centrofix bit holders linked above, and then a bunch of Wera rapidaptor handles, but the rapidaptor definitely has wobble.

I actually like the older, discontinued Wera 815/4/1 handle (although on the smaller side), which predated the rapidaptor and used their older quick release lock bitholder. That bit holder actually has less play than the rapidaptor and holds both C6 and E6 style bits. I feel they took a step back with the rapidaptor and would have loved to have the 816R size handle with the 815/4/1 bit holder attached to it.

815/4/1:

 

[glenng]

As for the OP's original question, I do like that Wera shank drive system you have posted in the OP. If it really has no wobble, that would be something to consider.

However, I think the best option is to get both CentroFix handles and then start your 1/4" hex shank E6 power bit collection. There are just so many more 1/4" E6 power bits at your disposal, you can choose from so many different brands and get bits in so many different lengths. You can get Wera bits up to 152mm and Felo makes 200, 300 and 400mm long bits. And replacing worn 1/4" hex shank E6 power bits is both easier and cheaper than hunting down a specific shank drive blade. And then you can also use those 1/4" hex shank bits in your impact or drill/driver.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

There are some advantages to using the interchangeable shank driver. One is that they generally lock very positively. Certainly the PB Swiss. This makes them much nicer to use.

Seems this would have to be very important to someone to outweigh the disadvantages. Maybe it matters more when using the very smallest bits like you mention.

Secondly, the blades are optimised for hand use (i.e. hard) so with repetitive use will generally last longer than an impact bit.

The hardened black tips? I did notice a lack of long hex bits with this feature. I presumed the manufacturers want them to be suitable for use in both hand and impact tools.

I also struggle to find a handle I like. The Wera handle shown is nowhere near the quality of the PB 225 handles, for example. The Wera bits are good, the handle less so.

Agreed, I bought a similar set in non-stainless, and considered the handle as practically a free gift with a set of bits.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

For 1/4" hex shank, I have the 2 Wiha Centrofix bit holders linked above

However, I think the best option is to get both CentroFix handles

I'm not surprised you have/suggest both to cover needs, as one is quite large (36mm) and the other quite small (29mm). The Wera 816 R and 838 RA-R M are also on the small side (30mm) with quite a rounded shape (not quite as much though), and only just capable enough for applying torque.

the rapidaptor definitely has wobble

In the 816 R (no ratchet), there is even play between the shaft of the RapidAptor and the handle around it. Not much, but there. Overall though the play doesn't bother me. It's a lot less than in the 838 RA-R M with its ratcheting mechanism, and even that one is satisfactory to me.

that would be something to consider.

I've actually already had a long hex set for a while (Wera 838 RA-R M), and recently already made my choice on a 2nd set (816 R set). I started this thread to share observations and for general interest.

 

[glenng]

I'm not surprised you have/suggest both to cover needs, as one is quite large (36mm) and the other quite small (29mm). The Wera 816 R and 838 RA-R M are also on the small side (30mm) with quite a rounded shape (not quite as much though), and only just capable enough for applying torque.


In the 816 R (no ratchet), there is even play between the shaft of the RapidAptor and the handle around it. Not much, but there. Overall though the play doesn't bother me. It's a lot less than in the 838 RA-R M with its ratcheting mechanism, and even that one is satisfactory.


I've actually already had a long hex set for a while (Wera 838 RA-R M), and recently already made my choice on a 2nd set (816 R set). I started this thread to share observations and for general interest.

Yeah the Red Wiha Centrofix is kinda thick. And while the ESD is smaller, it still ends up feeling really long because of how far the CentroFix bit holder sticks out. It's not proportional.

I was just reading the 2 older threads you linked in the OP, and noticed a now discontinued Festool Centrofix handle that was different and smaller than the Wiha Centrofix. I think a guy in that thread tried ordering the Festool, and ended up with the standard large size Wiha handle. Would love to have had that smaller Festool handle. Seems like a good in-between size.

Wait, you have play in the 816R between the handle and the metal shaft? I could have sworn if my put my finger on the tip of the metal shaft and tried to wobble the handle, there was no play. I thought the wobble was from the tolerances inside the shaft and rapidaptor. I could be wrong.

Overall, with all the rapidaptor bit handles, I feel the wobble becomes more noticeable with longer bits.

I actually love the 816RA ratcheting, despite the play. If I don't need a long blade, I prefer using it with a 50mm power bit. I just love the feel of the handle size, which is slightly thicker than the 816R.



I noticed the most play in the 813R ESD, which I think is because it doesn't have a magnet.

That Wera shank drive system you posted in the OP, I was actually considering because I wanted to try the ratcheting handle for that and see what the play was like, considering it has no rapidaptor. This one:

Wera 05002901001 Kraftform Kompakt Vario RA Ratcheting Screwdriver, Head, Blade Length: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement

Wera 05002901001 Kraftform Kompakt Vario RA Ratcheting Screwdriver, Head, Blade Length: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement

www.amazon.com

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Wait, you have play in the 816R between the handle and the metal shaft? I could have sworn if my put my finger on the tip of the metal shaft and tried to wobble the handle, there was no play. I thought the wobble was from the tolerances inside the shaft and rapidaptor. I could be wrong.

Having looked at it more carefully under the light, that play is between the hexagonal shaft embedded in the handle, and the round metal shaft of the RapidAptor. The former shaft is solid in the handle

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Yeah the Red Wiha Centrofix is kinda thick. And while the ESD is smaller, it still ends up feeling really long because of how far the CentroFix bit holder sticks out. It's not proportional.

Oh the ESD is almost the same length as the red! 146 vs. 149mm. The 816 R's adaptor is shorter and right up to the handle, 119mm.

I also noticed now that the product image of the 816 R is not correctly proportioned - it's thinner than that.

 

[glenng]

Having looked at it more carefully under the light, that play is between the hexagonal shaft embedded in the handle, and the round metal shaft of the RapidAptor. The former shaft is solid in the handle

Yeah I was kinda thinking the wobble was from the inside. I haven't played around with them in a while though. It's such a shame, such a cool design, but they never figured out how to minimize the bit wobble. The older 815/4/1 type bit holder is substantially better than rapidaptor, but still not quite CentroFix good.

 

[glenng]

Oh the ESD is almost the same length as the red! 146 vs. 149mm. The 816 R's adaptor is shorter and right up to the handle, 119mm.

I also noticed now that the product image of the 816 R is not correctly proportioned - it's thinner than that.

Yeah the ESD has weird proportions. It's like too thin for really good torque, but still long.

If you look at that pic I posted the 816RA is just thicker too. Like especially where your thumb would go right before the ratchet mechanism. It just feels nice. The 816R feels a little cramped.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Scaled image based on published lengths - Wiha 40331, Wiha 32161, Wera 816 RA.

 

[glenng]

^^Great comparison.

Does anyone know if the Hazet 811BH plays nice with E6 power bits? I know the bitholder on the older 810BH does not play nice with E6. It is only good for small C6 insert bits or Japanese style power bits with longer shaft before the detent.

Pic below is the older style 810BH, the metal shaft doesn't come out long enough passed the power bit detent, and that allows the E6 power bit to wobble. This is the same style as my Wera 815/4/1, but the Wera metal shaft protrudes out passed the bit detent, so it won't wobble. Here you can see the bit detent sticking out:



Here is the newer 811BH. Doesn't look like it was made for E6 power bits, though.

 

[KnurledNut]

A thread about interchangeable blades without mention of Xcelite?

 

[AEAdam]

I built this little kit out of a Milwaukee bit case for general home repair (really advanced repair, plumbing heating structure etc).

I’ve been using a lot and still just doing general carpentry.



I think I these Milwaukee bits were designed for impact guns and function like torque sticks, limiting torque thru put to preserve both themselves and the fastener heads as well. So maybe not the best choice for a hand tool. But their tip quality is good and they are cheap and plentiful. I would factor in cheap, disposable, & available.

I also really appreciate the long shank for this Snap On ratcheting screwdriver.

 

[JerseyBoatBuilder]

I built this little kit out of a Milwaukee bit case for general home repair (really advanced repair, plumbing heating structure etc).

I’ve been using a lot and still just doing general carpentry.



I think I these Milwaukee bits were designed for impact guns and function like torque sticks, limiting torque thru put to preserve both themselves and the fastener heads as well. So maybe not the best choice for a hand tool. But their tip quality is good and they are cheap and plentiful. I would factor in cheap, disposable, & available.

I also really appreciate the long shank for this Snap On ratcheting screwdriver.

I use that stubby a lot with the removable screw driver blades that they used to make.
The 1/4 drive Gear wrench nut driver shanks works great with it also

 

[Dave455]

I built this little kit out of a Milwaukee bit case for general home repair (really advanced repair, plumbing heating structure etc).

I’ve been using a lot and still just doing general carpentry.



I think I these Milwaukee bits were designed for impact guns and function like torque sticks, limiting torque thru put to preserve both themselves and the fastener heads as well. So maybe not the best choice for a hand tool. But their tip quality is good and they are cheap and plentiful. I would factor in cheap, disposable, & available.

I also really appreciate the long shank for this Snap On ratcheting screwdriver.

Interesting to hear your views.

I don’t really like the idea of these “torsion” bits either. If I’m using an impact driver I don’t want the bit negating the effects of the impacts - that’s the whole point.

If I’m not using an impact, then I generally want a hard bit.

I’ve got a lot of PB Swiss bits, but I realised ages back that they are not suitable for every job.

Tend to use a lot of Wera. They’re my go to for property maintenance tasks, and pretty much for use with my impact driver, but while not expensive, they are not cheap either.

I notice that despite being a Chinese company, the quality of Milwaukee bits / accessories seems to be quite good. Their SDS bits are German made, while even the Bosch ones are not any more.

Might try a couple of their driverbits. As you say, very inexpensive and readily available.

 

[pbon]

I prefer separate screwdrivers. Tend to lose the ones with loose little bits. Don’t really like the ones with loose long bits, either. The only one I tend to reach for with separate bits is the Milwaukee that holds its bits — I have the stubby and long versions.

I know there are cases and wraps and containers and holders to keep stuff together, but those seem to be inconvenient for the projects I have and the way I do them.

I do have a bunch of cases of Milwaukee bits for battery drivers and impacts and like those. But not for my go to hand screwdrivers.

 

[KnurledNut]

I prefer separate screwdrivers. Tend to lose the ones with loose little bits. Don’t really like the ones with loose long bits, either. The only one I tend to reach for with separate bits is the Milwaukee that holds its bits — I have the stubby and long versions.

I know there are cases and wraps and containers and holders to keep stuff together, but those seem to be inconvenient for the projects I have and the way I do them.

I do have a bunch of cases of Milwaukee bits for battery drivers and impacts and like those. But not for my go to hand screwdrivers.

In the shop, I prefer regular screwdrivers too.
In the field, portability ranks high so I keep a few handles and drive options with long and short bits.
Plus a:
PH #2
medium slotted
large slotted beater thru tang
11-in-1 (underrated tool)
4-in-1 electronic
2-in-1 thru tang

a 27-in-1 resides in emergency bag

TIme is of the essence typically, so I will use an impact driver wherever possible. That's where 2" and 6" long bits shine for me. Being able to convert from hand to power use is very convenient.

 

[AEAdam]

[ICODE][ATTACH type="full"]2370733[/ATTACH][ICODE][/ICODE][/ICODE]Interesting to hear your views.

I don’t really like the idea of these “torsion” bits either. If I’m using an impact driver I don’t want the bit negating the effects of the impacts - that’s the whole point.

If I’m not using an impact, then I generally want a hard bit.

I’ve got a lot of PB Swiss bits, but I realised ages back that they are not suitable for every job.

Tend to use a lot of Wera. They’re my go to for property maintenance tasks, and pretty much for use with my impact driver, but while not expensive, they are not cheap either.

I notice that despite being a Chinese company, the quality of Milwaukee bits / accessories seems to be quite good. Their SDS bits are German made, while even the Bosch ones are not any more.

Might try a couple of their driverbits. As you say, very inexpensive and readily available.

I’ve done zero math, so I’m just guessing. My guess is the torque a little 12V hex impact can produce today is enough to destroy a slightly pre-damaged fastener head. So the loss of high end torque isn’t really missed.

Just my opinion, tool companies are marketing their tools to us dummies, comparing their max torque to their competitors’. And we fall for it. We went thru it with the automotive impact gun space race, only to realize smaller, mid torque guns were actually good enough and way nicer to use.

I prefer separate screwdrivers. Tend to lose the ones with loose little bits. Don’t really like the ones with loose long bits, either. The only one I tend to reach for with separate bits is the Milwaukee that holds its bits — I have the stubby and long versions.

Me too, but depends on the scenario.

1. I’ve long maintained ratcheting screwdrivers can be game changers for automotive work, especially interiors, under dash stuff, so much so that I recommend one as an initial tool for a newbie. They really transform driving screws by hand into a legit one handed operation.
2. Now, I have fixed blades for mine (PH1&2), but even my current home building, appliance work, chain saw building, I find I need a plethora of specialty bits, such that having a screwdriver for each isn’t practical.
3. I think the most compelling reason to use cheap replaceable bits (I.e not low quality) is that all screwdriver tips wear. Being able to renew just the business end of a handle you like is both cost effective and less wasteful.

Not trying to sell anyone on anything, just an alternate point of view.


Interchangeable tip screwdrivers I use a lot!

Classic bomb proof Enderes , a Lutz multi tip Torx that comes in handy for carpentry, a pair of Kleins, the long tip is new to me and I like it. Good compromise between bulky multi tips and a fixed driver, then a couple selections from Snap On. The long shank in the mini handle at left is my absolute favorite setup.

 

[Dave455]

I’ve done zero math, so I’m just guessing. My guess is the torque a little 12V hex impact can produce today is enough to destroy a slightly pre-damaged fastener head. So the loss of high end torque isn’t really missed.

Just my opinion, tool companies are marketing their tools to us dummies, comparing their max torque to their competitors’. And we fall for it. We went thru it with the automotive impact gun space race, only to realize smaller, mid torque guns were actually good enough and way nicer to use.

Me too, but depends on the scenario.

1. I’ve long maintained ratcheting screwdrivers can be game changers for automotive work, especially interiors, under dash stuff, so much so that I recommend one as an initial tool for a newbie. They really transform driving screws by hand into a legit one handed operation.
2. Now, I have fixed blades for mine (PH1&2), but even my current home building, appliance work, chain saw building, I find I need a plethora of specialty bits, such that having a screwdriver for each isn’t practical.
3. I think the most compelling reason to use cheap replaceable bits (I.e not low quality) is that all screwdriver tips wear. Being able to renew just the business end of a handle you like is both cost effective and less wasteful.

Not trying to sell anyone on anything, just an alternate point of view.


Interchangeable tip screwdrivers I use a lot!

Classic bomb proof Enderes , a Lutz multi tip Torx that comes in handy for carpentry, a pair of Kleins, the long tip is new to me and I like it. Good compromise between bulky multi tips and a fixed driver, then a couple selections from Snap On. The long shank in the mini handle at left is my absolute favorite setup.

I like your setup of the stubby handled bit driver with the long shank.

I have the hard handle version with the fixed short shank. Had it for years and love it, but I bought one of the soft handle versions on a deal, with the intention of adding a standard shank.

Having seen your setup, I might go for the long.

I have essentially that shank with the T handle by Williams, which is superbly ergonomic, but not always ideal for automotive.

The Klien 5 in 1 / 6 in 1 are good value,

 

[AEAdam]

I like your setup of the stubby handled bit driver with the long shank.

I have the hard handle version with the fixed short shank. Had it for years and love it, but I bought one of the soft handle versions on a deal, with the intention of adding a standard shank.

Having seen your setup, I might go for the long.

I have essentially that shank with the T handle by Williams, which is superbly ergonomic, but not always ideal for automotive.

The Klien 5 in 1 / 6 in 1 are good value,

I have hard and soft normal sized ratchet handles and this is my favorite. I’d like to try a tee handle.

Just in case anyone is interested, I greatly dislike the 11 in 1 screwdrivers. Just too much fussing. And it’s been my experience that the bits in the really cheap reversing tip screwdrivers corrode and become hard to switch. A little oil usually fixes them, but I’ve never had this problem with Enderes

 

[seber]

My go to is the Snap-on stubby ratchet with long bits. I'm slowly replacing all my standard screwdrivers with more of these having semi-permanently installed bits. That gives the advantage of super hard working face and super handy handle. Pick your favorite bit maker, German or Japanese.

 

[cbracer]

I've owned almost all of the currently available kits at one time or another. The Felo one is nice. The case is heavy and not compact enough, and limited options for bits. I ended up selling it although I liked the T handle conversion. The Wiha drive-loc system I did not like at all and returned it. The Xcelite is what my dad gave me decades ago. It's ok but some play in the mechanism and the hex bits are long same size whole shank so flexy. The PB Swiss is what I dream about but the play in their mechanism also had me return it. The Wera stainless 1/4" kit is my favorite! About $78 on Amazon. I purchased the extra stainless bits from another place which don't come in the kit. There are 2 kits with different bits but one is often less than the other. And I can use my PB swiss 1/4" hex bits in it also.

 

[merkyworks]

On the Wera SS kit I think one is with SAE hex and the other is Metric hex.

Metric Kit & SAE Kit