I have 1500 square feet of new concrete in a hair salon, I am trying to give it a semi/high gloss look, I want to use something clear to keep the original concrete color. my question is should I used a sealer or epoxy? I have done the whole epoxy-coat thing in my garage so I am familiar with the process my only concern is yellowing. My concern with the sealer is I have never done it before.
seal or epoxy?
- Thread starter nokkieny
- Start date
dcs Inc
Well-known member
You wont get the longevity out of an acrylic sealer. It will scratch easy and the chemicals will eat the coating. If you have UV instrusion then you need a product that will not yellow on you. there are several on the market that would provide excellant scratch resistance, UV proof and offer a high chemical resistance. Poly aspartics and urethanes come in mind. Another direction you may want to look into is polishing. Here's one of the latest hair salons.
http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/dcsinc/media/moon%20surface/IMG_0021-Copy.jpg.html
http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/dcsinc/media/moon%20surface/IMG_0021-Copy.jpg.html
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Garage Flooring
ALLIANCE MEMBER
That had to be a hairy install, but it looks absolutely amazing!
Shea
Well-known member
I think what you should consider is epoxy as well. While acrylic is easier to put down and doesn't require as much prep as epoxy, it will break down quickly in an environment like that. A polyurethane will give you the most abrasion resistance but usually does not do well on bare concrete. You would want to put down a thin coating of epoxy primer first then apply the urethane.
This is a good chart about sealers that I have posted before that helps to explain the benefits of each. There is info in this article about concrete floor sealers as well.
Polyaspartics are another really good choice for a hair salon, but you might not want to tackle that yourself unless you have help from people who have experience with applying epoxies. It has a short pot life and is more difficult to work with but can be applied at almost any temperature and humidity. It can also be very slippery when wet if you don't apply an anti-slip agent. A nice thing about it is if time is a concern, you can be moving things in the very next day.
This is a good chart about sealers that I have posted before that helps to explain the benefits of each. There is info in this article about concrete floor sealers as well.
Polyaspartics are another really good choice for a hair salon, but you might not want to tackle that yourself unless you have help from people who have experience with applying epoxies. It has a short pot life and is more difficult to work with but can be applied at almost any temperature and humidity. It can also be very slippery when wet if you don't apply an anti-slip agent. A nice thing about it is if time is a concern, you can be moving things in the very next day.
Ultimate Floors by Rhino
Well-known member
Bazing!!
dcs Inc
Well-known member
Thank you Justin, The problem I came with this project was the designer. What a PIA they(she) was. I thought that it would be good to get into bed with the locals and have since found it was not the thing to do. WOW..... anyway, this girl wanted a moon surface look and even though I achieved it, what a pain.....
I like doing the "different" the unusual stuff and sometimes it cost me. I should keep with the norm but the artistic worm inside me keeps showing it's ugly head.
LegacyIndustrial
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Acrylic sealer will work but you will need to keep waxing it weekly.
Best bet, one coat of wb clear epoxy as a primer, topcoat of MCU.
You can still keep a coat of wax on it for extra protection.
Best bet, one coat of wb clear epoxy as a primer, topcoat of MCU.
You can still keep a coat of wax on it for extra protection.
thegarageguy
Well-known member
depending on the look you are trying to achieve, you can go from subtle to absolutely wild with epoxy. The durability and performance really comes down to the final sealer used. Polyaspartics are really chemical resistant. I've seen tests where certain ones would resist hair dye for up to 4 hours. A high traffic polyurethane will be as chemical resistant but some are super scratch resistant, much more than polyaspartics.
So the consensus looks to be epoxy + a topcoat. In my garage I used epoxy-coat with a norkan hpu 747 topcoat. Any other topcoat options I should consider? 1 or 2 coats of epoxy?
I used shark grit in the garage, but not sure how effective it really is, if the floor is wet it is slick as ice. when not wet it is more than adequate. Would it be a bad idea not to use shark grit in a business or will it not be slick as long as kept dry?
I used shark grit in the garage, but not sure how effective it really is, if the floor is wet it is slick as ice. when not wet it is more than adequate. Would it be a bad idea not to use shark grit in a business or will it not be slick as long as kept dry?
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Shea
Well-known member
Epoxy can be little slick when wet. You may want to consider a polyurethane topcoat instead. It has more abrasion resistance than epoxy and it is not as slippery when wet.
dcs Inc
Well-known member
If using a top coat of urethane over the epoxy, you can mix some aluminum oxide into it. This will give you as much or as little texture as you would like.
Is polyurethane different from urethane?
Is shark grip aluminum oxide? I mixed that with the urethane I applied as a topcoat on my garage floor and you can see and touch it, I want to have a smooth shiny look which is why I am wary about an additive.
dcs Inc
Well-known member
Shark grip is actually ground up milk jugs. It is popular because ii is very light and will "float" instead of sinking into the sealer. Aluminum oxide is a very fine powder that you mix into the urethane. It creats kinda like a sandpaper finish depending on the loading. It does upset the light bounce off of epoxy and will creat a semi gloss to a matt finish, again dependant on the loading. The thing I like about the product is the fact it is very hard to scratch and of course gives a non-slip surface.
Shea
Well-known member
Polyurethane and urethane are the same thing from a marketing standpoint. From a chemistry point of view "urethane" is not really the correct description of the resins used in coatings. The chemical urethane is known as ethyl carbamate, which was once used in pharamceuticals but not anymore due to its toxicity.
What is used today is a urethane linkage with polymers. Since there are many linkages it is a "poly" or many. Thus, polyurethane. Plus, it's easier to say polyurethane than "many urethane".
Garage Flooring
ALLIANCE MEMBER
In a 'former life' I was an ALA certified for designing lighting. Worked with a lot of designers. Like anyone else, some of them were awesome and some of them could drive you up the wall!
dcs Inc
Well-known member
You're right of course, I shouldn't lump them all together. Seems I've ran into a few that what they explain isn't what's in their head and I'm suppose to figure it out for them.
thegarageguy
Well-known member
In a commercial space, a good high end, high traffic polyurethane will maintain your floor trouble free for years. One thing though is that they may give a slight orange peel texture. The orange peel will be less evident is texture is introduced.
Here is a salon we just finished... opening first of the year
Here is a salon we just finished... opening first of the year
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What process of the buildout did or do you suggest doing the floors?
So you would suggest using aluminum oxide as it will give a better texture than the polyurethane alone? Also do you do an epoxy base? I am doing clear so I am still a little confused about how it might turn out, I want it to have a shiny concrete look. Id say basically I want it to have a polished look but without being porous.
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Garage Flooring
ALLIANCE MEMBER
thegarageguy
Well-known member
If you do it before sheetrock and paint, you will need to protect your work. We typically come in after sheetrock and paint but before floor moldings.
The fine aluminum oxide is tricky. It likes to sink to the bottom and can cause a very uneven and blotchy look.
Concrete comes in many hues....beige, green, blue...No telling how it will seal. high solids epoxy and solvent based products will darken your floor much more than any water based products.
Here is a few examples of grinded, colored and sealed concrete;
LegacyIndustrial
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Two coats of clear water base epoxy.
Urethane topcoat if you need it.
Urethane topcoat if you need it.
hmm any reason for waterbased versus solids?
Also, another concern I have is the floor being slippery when people come in when it rains. I have urethane with shark grip in my garage and if my shoes are wet at all it is like walking on ice.
Also, another concern I have is the floor being slippery when people come in when it rains. I have urethane with shark grip in my garage and if my shoes are wet at all it is like walking on ice.
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Shea
Well-known member
The waterbased epoxy won't darken the concrete and it makes for a good primer coat. I've always had good luck with Shark Grip on polyurethane - Maybe you didn't apply it correctly?
Hmm, the application was pretty straight forward if I recall, I just mixed the shark grip and then rollered it. It is only slippery when wet, but very slippery. And I don't want to use shark grip this time because it looks like there is sand texture and I want a smooth floor, could it possibly be the type of polyurethane?
I used norkan brand.
LegacyIndustrial
ALLIANCE MEMBER
The water based epoxy makes a great primer for the urethane.
However, it makes a dandy two-coat system all on it's own.
Many of the stained floors you see in malls, restaurants are stained and coated with wb epoxy.
However, it makes a dandy two-coat system all on it's own.
Many of the stained floors you see in malls, restaurants are stained and coated with wb epoxy.
The reason I wanted to use urethane was in case hair dye spilled on the floor and for UV protection.
I was doing a little testing on my garage floor and realized its not as slippery as I thought unless I am wearing crocks or sandals which is what I would normally wear when it was raining.
I suppose my question is, would it be a no brainer to use some anti-slip with the urethane in a commercial application? I just know the shark grip in my garage is visible, and I don't want to ruin the look of the floor, I don't recall ever seeing any other business that looks like it has grit in its floor coating.
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Shea
Well-known member
Well if you don't want it to be visible, then your best bet may be a big mat in the entry with the salon's name on it
There are also companies that do commercial applications of anti-slip applications that are not supposed to change the look of the floor. PosiGrip is one such company that comes to mind. These co's specialize in treating hospital floors, malls, and etc. I'm not sure if they sell the product by itself or not.
There are also companies that do commercial applications of anti-slip applications that are not supposed to change the look of the floor. PosiGrip is one such company that comes to mind. These co's specialize in treating hospital floors, malls, and etc. I'm not sure if they sell the product by itself or not.
Ya I guess we will just have to take steps to make sure the floor is dry.
Also, any recomendations on a polyurethane to create a glass like gloss?
I am also wondering what is the pupose of the epoxy? Why not use two coats of urethane?
Also, any recomendations on a polyurethane to create a glass like gloss?
I am also wondering what is the pupose of the epoxy? Why not use two coats of urethane?
Shea
Well-known member
The epoxy is what makes the mechanical bond with the concrete. Polyurethanes do not, but they do bond real well to epoxy. As far as what brand of polyurethane, there are a lot of good products out there. I'm sure some of the guys here will make some suggestions for you.
Prepman
Member
The Elite floor was what is referred to as a metalic floor and is beautiful in a salon. It has a 3-D look and is great if the concrete has imperfections or stains before sealing. I like clear moistured cured urethanes (2 coats and easy to install), in other words it single component and rollable. I would use a fine aluminun oxide, scatter it before rolling the final coat. Oh, now you know my secret for making the non-slip to look even! You always get lap marks when you add it that you get from adding it in the coating material. Shark Grip can be used if a less aggressive, round, easy to mop, finish is desired. Hope this helps.
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Prepman
Member
The Elite floor was what is referred to as a metalic floor and is beautiful in a salon. It has a 3-D look and is great if the concrete has imperfections or stains before sealing. I like clear moistured cured urethanes (2 coats and easy to install), in other words it is single component and rollable. I would use a fine aluminun oxide, scatter it before rolling the final coat. This keeps from seeing the lap marks that you get from adding it in the coating. Shark Grip can be used if a less aggressive, round, easy to mop, finish is desired. Hope this helps.
Hmm I found metallix epoxy kits but they have no mention of urethane, basically I want the look of polished concrete like this:
http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/polished-concre-15196
But I am afraid if I just polish and seal it will not be chemical proof, if hair dye spills on it? that is why I was trying to do something with epoxy+urethane to make it chemical resistant.
http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/polished-concre-15196
But I am afraid if I just polish and seal it will not be chemical proof, if hair dye spills on it? that is why I was trying to do something with epoxy+urethane to make it chemical resistant.