Sealing sink drains and traps?

[CraigStu]

I rebedded the disposal in our SS sink about a year ago w/ plumbers putty. I guess I used too much. It slowly squeazes out forming a tiny ring in the sink. So once in a while I trim that out and do another 1/8 turn on the coupler.

 

[MushCreek]

I'm trying a different strainer basket that uses no putty. It has a foam seal inside, a deep rubber gasket with three ridges underneath, and its tightened up with a hollow screw from the top. Seems like a good, solid set-up; time will tell.

 

[JRC3]

I see those foam gaskets with vanity pop-ups and basket strainers. I throw them right in the trash and use putty. The problem with those foam gaskets is how the won't sit as flush as a proper amount of putty, they end up letting water sit in the sink at the edge of the drain.

Actually on vanity drains nothing is needed under the pop-up escutcheon/flange unless you want the sink to hold water when plugged. Not even sure why we have pop-ups anymore...It's not like decades ago when people washed up in a sink because they didn't bathe every day. Same with soaking stockings and such.

 

[rlitman]

I see those foam gaskets with vanity pop-ups and basket strainers. I throw them right in the trash and use putty. The problem with those foam gaskets is how the won't sit as flush as a proper amount of putty, they end up letting water sit in the sink at the edge of the drain...

I've had drains that came with thin silicone gaskets that worked well, but I too wouldn't use a thick foam gasket. You want the flange to sit as low as possible, and putty is often the best answer.

As for putty, there are several types of plumbers putty. Stain free putties are designed to not leach oils that will stain a natural stone basin, but some may not be compatible with stainless steels, so do read the fine print. I have an ages old tub of putty made specifically for stainless steel which is more gray than the regular stuff. It's so old that the plastic tub has gone brittle sitting in a drawer, but the putty is fine.

If you're getting putty squeezed out after the fact, it's because you didn't squeeze out enough during installation. Either you didn't sufficiently warm the putty when you installed it (that's usually the case), or you used insufficient force on it (it can take quite a lot).

Oh, and silicone caulk has NO place when it comes to drains. Period. I've seen so many hacks do this, but silicone caulk WILL fail in drain service, as it will lose adhesion when continually exposed to water. Read the label or call the manufacturer if you don't believe me. There are special silicone products designed for aquariums, but even they will only last when used with water that's safe for fish (no chlorination), and when applied to glass. On metal or plastic, an underwater silicone bond will fail eventually.

If you must use caulk (there are some scenarios where it helps, though a sink drain isn't one of them), use something designed for under the waterline use that's compatible with the materials involved. Around 20 years ago, I cleaned out silicone from a relative's shower drain that was applied by a hack contractor that caused a leak into their kitchen ceiling, and replaced it with BoatLife Life Caulk, and it's been fine ever since.

 

[nadogail]

Plumbers have been using "Plumbers Putty" for generations; because it works.

 

[JRC3]

Funny because many manufacturer directions say to use silicone, I recall many vanities recommended it under the pop-up escutcheon. Just proves the writing of it is by people who don't know what they are talking about, or possibly lost in translation.

Around 20 years ago, I cleaned out silicone from a relative's shower drain that was applied by a hack contractor that caused a leak into their kitchen ceiling...

Are you talking about the old push in gaskets before they got smart and made them with thread compression rings? Used to be you had to pound the donut gasket around the pvc and then fill over it with silicone.

Silicone was applied to "A" after the gasket was pushed in. They were a total failure design and a PITA.

 

[rlitman]

Funny because many manufacturer directions say to use silicone, I recall many vanities recommended it under the pop-up escutcheon. Just proves the writing of it is by people who don't know what they are talking about, or possibly lost in translation.


Are you talking about the old push in gaskets before they got smart and made them with thread compression rings? Used to be you had to pound the donut gasket around the pvc and then fill over it with silicone.

Silicone was applied to "A" after the gasket was pushed in. They were a total failure design and a PITA.

Yep, that exactly ("A"). The problem with plastic shower bases is that people walk on them, and no matter how well bedded, there will be some flexing over time. The gasket was supposed to handle that, but well, it didn't (this isn't rocket science, but hey, even the Challenger had these issues, and gaskets to harden for numerous reasons...), so it relied on a caulk seal above it, and silicone there is doomed to fail in a year or two. Good polysulfide caulks should last indefinitely in the same place, and there's even better stuff out there if you want to spend the money.

The silicone itself will not be harmed by the water, but time and again I see silicone just let's go of plastic when it's under water like that. I couldn't say if it's the chlorine in the water, or something that mold and algae do to silicone, or if it's caused by cleaning chemicals, or if it's plasticizers in the PVC leaching up and acting on the bond, but whatever the cause, the results always end up the same, with chunks of silicone still weakly bonded to one side, and completely detached from the other.

Yeah, I've seen instructions to wipe silicone under a vanity popup escutcheon. It's dumb, and silicone makes for a lousy bedding compound. Then again, using something like 3M 5200 isn't smart either. It'll seal just fine, but you'll need a jackhammer to get that drain out.

I don't think there's a good one-size-fits-all answer for this though, because there are so many materials in the mix. For a stainless kitchen sink with a stainless strainer, I couldn't imagine something superior to good old putty, but I wouldn't be comfortable using putty in a plastic (corian) or natural stone basin (ok, maybe soapstone). And putty may not work all that well with a plastic strainer (yuck).

 

[billconner]

Plumbers have been using "Plumbers Putty" for generations; because it works.

They used lead pipe for generations, and then galvanized pipe. Now seeing copper being less used. Things change. Not saying no to plumbers putty, I have a tube, but I also used a rubbery gasket on last two sinks and working fine after 3 years.

People used typewriters for generations, Royal and Smith Carona and IBM selectrics.

 

[JRC3]

People used typewriters for generations, Royal and Smith Carona and IBM selectrics.

Just because people don't use those devices anymore doesn't make the content produced on the new devices better. Just look at the **** on twitter and FB or TGJF. lol

The truth why people don't use plumbers putty (PP) anymore is because they are lazy and don't want to be bothered with the extra step/process or the additional step of actually buying it, and manufacturers cater to the consumer. Also look at higher end vanity drains, they do not come with rubber/foam gaskets under the drain flange and direct the use of PP or silicone.


A newer way is not better simply because it's newer. Many building practices have actually gone down because the things we used to do with a 50 year mindset, now it's only expected to last 20.

 

[Garcky]

Well, for actual drain plumbing, I have always found that if I pay attention to their alignment and tighten the fittings carefully by hand, there are no leaks. The slightest misalignment, though, and they always leak. I wish there were a better system for under-sink drain plumbing, but they've been using those compression fittings forever, so they must work OK. You do have to be careful assembling them, though.

 

[Bucko]

keep the connections aligned, not overtightened , proper seals installed the right way around .proper pipe measurements
really, there's not much else to it.

My thoughts exactly with even more attention to the proper lengths, way to often people cut the pipes too short or too long and it causes alot of stress on the system.
Only other thing I would add is to keep the junk out from under the sink because they always end up cluttered with too much stuff that gets slammed into the pipes over and over.

 

[billconner]

Just because people don't use those devices anymore doesn't make the content produced on the new devices better. Just look at the **** on twitter and FB or TGJF. lol

The truth why people don't use plumbers putty (PP) anymore is because they are lazy and don't want to be bothered with the extra step/process or the additional step of actually buying it, and manufacturers cater to the consumer. Also look at higher end vanity drains, they do not come with rubber/foam gaskets under the drain flange and direct the use of PP or silicone.


A newer way is not better simply because it's newer. Many building practices have actually gone down because the things we used to do with a 50 year mindset, now it's only expected to last 20.

True, but sometimes newer things do work better. Also, as far as tools, it's personal. Does a truck work better than a horse drawn carriage? It sure does for me.

 

[JRC3]

Does a truck work better than a horse drawn carriage? It sure does for me.

But this isn't about trucks or horse drawn carriages. Random analogies don't magically make something better. lol

Here's a newer idea for sink drains.

I crack up every time I find those under a sink.

 

[housewolf]

Just because people don't use those devices anymore doesn't make the content produced on the new devices better. Just look at the **** on twitter and FB or TGJF. lol

The truth why people don't use plumbers putty (PP) anymore is because they are lazy and don't want to be bothered with the extra step/process or the additional step of actually buying it, and manufacturers cater to the consumer. Also look at higher end vanity drains, they do not come with rubber/foam gaskets under the drain flange and direct the use of PP or silicone.


A newer way is not better simply because it's newer. Many building practices have actually gone down because the things we used to do with a 50 year mindset, now it's only expected to last 20.

I agree with a lot of that. When I went to work at a company I eventually worked at for 28 years our philosophy was, we wanted to do a job that would last 100 years.

In our efforts to continuously build a better mousetrap, we often reach a point of diminishing returns. The “old school” way of installing a basket strainer or PO plug with putty, rubber & cardboard gaskets underneath compressed by a nut on the bottom is not difficult to do or problematic after many, many years of use. I’ve demoed commercial stuff that has seen up to 75 years of use that was still holding fine.

There are many materials & methods used in plumbing in the last century that were labor intensive and/or problematic. Anyone remember “quest”? Easy to install but didn’t last long. I’m not a big fan of pex but it’s easy to install and it’s proving to be a durable product. I’m all for improving materials and methods in this industry where there’s room for improvement.

I’ve said it recently, maybe in this thread, that 1-1/2” or 1-1/4” tubular (measured by OD) PVC is not the greatest thing to use under sink drains. Yes it works fine if it’s perfectly aligned, there are no offsets in the drain, and you don’t bump it often. Residential contractors buy them because they may buy hundreds or more of them a week. They are easy to work with, and If they can save $10 a unit, that’s quite a savings for them, but t’s a drop in the bucket to spend an extra $100 on your $500K home.

I did the plumbing on my house when it was built two years ago. I used SCH DWV PVC under the kitchen sink and chrome plated brass traps under the lavs. Of course all my **** is roughed in correctly and there are no offsets under the fixtures

 

[PoorUB]

I don't know what I might be doing different, but I have zero issues with leaking slip fittings.

Last summer I removed all the plumbing under our kitchen sink to repair a leak in the wall, old galvanized drain pipe. I reinstalled all the old under sink plumbing reusing all the old parts, crush washers too, no leaks.

I just replaced my sister's bathtub with three slip fittings, slap it together and no leaks, I took out the vanity so I had room to work and reinstalled all the old fittings, and no leaks, Even the one that had been leaking didn't. Now I suspect when I took it apart the crush washer was upside down, but I can not say for certain.

I always use plumbers putty when installing the drain into a sink, never a leak there either.

 

[billconner]

But this isn't about trucks or horse drawn carriages. Random analogies don't magically make something better. lol

Here's a newer idea for sink drains.

I crack up every time I find those under a sink.

Solder or crimp? Or avoid copper and use PEX for supply? ..for in floor radiant? (Copper in a slab - now theres a tried and true method - NOT)

I'm not saying all new tech is better, but I think foolish to say the old way is always better. Stainless or porcelain sink and no gasket furnished by strainer manufacturer? Sure, use plumbers putty. Strainer instructions say use their gasket, I'm going to do that. Marble or soapstone sink - have to study some but not ordinary plumbers putty.

I resist the absolute solution - as always use or never use - just not for me. And I don't mind the occasional experiment of new tech - in my house - else how will I know.

 

[Meursault74]

I don't think there's a good one-size-fits-all answer for this though, because there are so many materials in the mix. For a stainless kitchen sink with a stainless strainer, I couldn't imagine something superior to good old putty, but I wouldn't be comfortable using putty in a plastic (corian) or natural stone basin (ok, maybe soapstone). And putty may not work all that well with a plastic strainer (yuck).

I just re-did a plastic strainer into a plastic sink at my mother's. The sink is for the laundry machines. There was a very slight leak after about 25 years of use from the strainer. My brother had done it back then. I asked him what he used but couldn't remember. I assume it was regular plumbers putty. I had to chip/scrape/sand away the old plumbers putty as it was brittle at this point (and why it was leaking). I had some regular plumbers putty already, but I bought another one that said "non-staining" and "ok for most plastics" and cost 3x as much. Replaced a couple of those compression tapered washer for the pipe fittings as some broke when I took them apart, but I used the same strainer as it looked and felt fine. Rubber gasket underneath was still supple. I cut up part of a cracker box into the shape of the cardboard washer as that needed to be replaced and I didn't feel like trying to find that for purchase. No leaks when I was done, time will tell how long this lasts.

 

[PoorUB]

My experience has been just the opposite, silicone fails after a couple of years, plumbers putty will last until you change out the sink.

My experience too.

I changed out drain baskets in my kitchen sink years ago. Not knowing any better I siliconed them in. In a couple years the one was leaking. I knew a guy that was a plumber and he laughed and said to use plumbers putty. I did and no leaks for 25 years and still holding.

 

[ecotec]

Following, as the right side of my kitchen sink leaks like a sonofa. Previous owners solution was to cover every joint with clear silicone, and put a catch can down there to collect the drips.

I only use the left side Lmao.

It’s one of those projects that I KNOW if I start, it’s gonna be a can of worms.

Good luck!

I take them apart and put them back together until they don’t leak.

While they are questionable, I put a bucket under the trap.

I use plumbers putty for the drain baskets. I keep a container hidden in my basement so it is ready to go in the winter.

 

[MushCreek]

I got it all back together- no leaks! I paid extra attention to alignment. It's either that, or I just got lucky. As for the drain basket, the foam gasket is very thin. There's a huge rubber gasket underneath, and PVC surround. It tightens up with a hollow screw from the top. The plug shaft has a ball detent that holds it up to drain, and you just push it straight down to seal. The wife really likes it... so far. We'll see how it holds up before I replace the other two. Installing the bigger of the two sinks was a real bear because the granite installer missed on the hole location, leaving almost nothing on two edges to clamp to, and very little room between the deep bowls and the cabinet side. I got it done; there's more about it in my thread about accepting sub-par work.

 

[Jim_No_Garage]

OMG this thread is triggering my hatred of plumbing . . .

I repaired a bathroom sink trap at my Dad's this spring - following 30+ years behind my Mom and her best friend who pulled out a wall hanging sink and replaced it with a sink base and Corian top/bowl. It took some research and trial and error to figure out what was there and how to hook into it properly. Once I figured out the right parts it went together just fine. Plumbing is like Unix - expert friendly!

The trap under my kitchen sink is ABS and the p-trap nut was overtightened by someone else and is cracked but not leaking at this moment. I know if I touch anything under there I will have to redo it back to the wall and I'm in no hurry to do that.

Cheers

Jim

 

[Magnum440d100]

I take them apart and put them back together until they don’t leak.

While they are questionable, I put a bucket under the trap.

I use plumbers putty for the drain baskets. I keep a container hidden in my basement so it is ready to go in the winter.

Thanks for the tips!

I got it all back together with no drips. At least not from what I worked on. Everything else is questionable.

Part of the problem from the previous owners work, was missing gaskets. I purchased a hard plastic one, as that’s well that was available at the time. Someone else mentioned the red rubber ones in another thread, so that’s what I may pick up one day after work and redo all the seals.

That said, it’s working, no hard drips. The work I did is solid. But, I WILL be redoing it when I reno the kitchen next spring/tax check. Just gotta keep it functional for now, as I’m already elbow deep in the whole house reno (subfloor and walls!).

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

The red gaskets in the "good" PVC kit from Lowes work very well.
Found that they also sell a "tail piece" for the drain that has a gasket included and is all one piece so no "jam" nut on the strainer. Went that route this time.
Just plumbed our "new" sink in my garage build. No leaks

Absolutely use plumbers puddy for the strainer into the sink, never have had a problem there.

 

[bwringer]

Another tip, I almost always remove the doors on a sink base. A few screws is well worth the time saved with extra room. Even better when the hinges have quick releases.

I just remove the center support between the doors whenever I need to monkey around under my sink (which is very seldom). Four screws and done.

OMG this thread is triggering my hatred of plumbing . . .

Agreed. I hate house **** in general, and plumbing most of all. On a car, you're not expected to hand-craft your own replacement parts out of cheap plastic raw materials.

 

[ecotec]

I put in 4 valves a few months ago.

Two of the valves do not turn in the same direction… and it is driving me nuts…

They work fine… but I hate them not facing the same direction…

 

[i4ni]

The $5 trap kits that are made of plastic are/can be hit or miss. I have found that the mold joint where the flair and seat are can prevent a good seal. Instead of jackin’ with them- I plumb kitchen sinks with Sch40 pipe and fittings. The trap has union type fittings; and a little Teflon dope to the threads can help seal- but it’s more for keeping the threads from locking up.

This is the way I do them. Those cheezy lightweight nut and ferrel fittings are going to leak sooner or later and if you don't catch them they can cause some pretty bad water damage.